What do you hate about church?

Goodness me, so much.

Large among my dislikes is the hypocrisy. There is so much cherry-picking about the good and the bad, that only someone who is dishonest would indulge in it. I really dislike the idea that we're all born sinners. I dislike the idea that we die, and some get elevated on their death, and some are punished. The way religion dips in to politics and the absurd assertions (I've seen supporters of one side claiming their candidate is comparable to Jesus, for goodness sakes).

I dislike abuse of power. I dislike the "with God on our side" argument. I dislike the play acting and air of superiority. I dislike that the various parts of the Bible have been "interpreted" in a million different ways, often contradictory, which suggests to me it means whatever you want it to mean at any given time. I dislike the obvious flaws in "believers" who say they believe in the teachings of Jesus, but the likes of the homeless are wasters and not worthy of our time.

I won't go on.
 

VaughanJB said:
Goodness me, so much.

Large among my dislikes is the hypocrisy. There is so much cherry-picking about the good and the bad, that only someone who is dishonest would indulge in it. I really dislike the idea that we're all born sinners. I dislike the idea that we die, and some get elevated on their death, and some are punished. The way religion dips in to politics and the absurd assertions (I've seen supporters of one side claiming their candidate is comparable to Jesus, for goodness sakes).

I dislike abuse of power. I dislike the "with God on our side" argument. I dislike the play acting and air of superiority. I dislike that the various parts of the Bible have been "interpreted" in a million different ways, often contradictory, which suggests to me it means whatever you want it to mean at any given time. I dislike the obvious flaws in "believers" who say they believe in the teachings of Jesus, but the likes of the homeless are wasters and not worthy of our time.

I won't go on.
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Well said. I don't disagree.
 
Teacher Terry said:
Most people are inherently good and don’t need religion or a big daddy in the sky in order to live a decent life and to help others. There will also always be evil people who would rather enslave or kill their enemies. Often innocent women and children are the victims. There’s never going to be a perfect world.
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I used to have prisoners as pen pals, before the internet. When people do wrong, they do not know how to do better. This is why I am constantly harping about education for citizenship. Such an education does what the bible does, only without superstitious notions.

I seriously like the Virtues Project started by a Bahi' woman. Having good people is so simple. It is not enough to punish someone for doing wrong. The Virtues Project is about teaching how to do things the right way. Unless the person has a mental problem, we are all created in such a way to be valuable members of society and education for democracy/citizenship is about bringing the best out of all us as we are prepared to do our best.

I wish everyone trusted the science of evolution and then compared what we know of animals with our human behaviors. Biologically we are programmed for the good.
 

VaughanJB said:
Goodness me, so much.

Large among my dislikes is the hypocrisy. There is so much cherry-picking about the good and the bad, that only someone who is dishonest would indulge in it. I really dislike the idea that we're all born sinners. I dislike the idea that we die, and some get elevated on their death, and some are punished. The way religion dips in to politics and the absurd assertions (I've seen supporters of one side claiming their candidate is comparable to Jesus, for goodness sakes).

I dislike abuse of power. I dislike the "with God on our side" argument. I dislike the play acting and air of superiority. I dislike that the various parts of the Bible have been "interpreted" in a million different ways, often contradictory, which suggests to me it means whatever you want it to mean at any given time. I dislike the obvious flaws in "believers" who say they believe in the teachings of Jesus, but the likes of the homeless are wasters and not worthy of our time.

I won't go on.
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I'm not sure why you're calling me dishonest because I'm a believer, but I hate it.

The charge that we Christians are all hypocrites is an old one that I hear all the time. I don't get it. Just because we believe in Jesus and try to follow his teachings, it doesn't make us hypocrites when we fail. If you say you think someone is a great basketball player and then don't play it very well yourself does that make you a hypocrite?

We go to church to get better, it's those who think they don't need any improvement who are smug.

Here's the usual pattern of Lutheran sermons. Frist comes "The Law" where the preacher reads a passage of the New Testament where Jesus is telling us how we should be, you can usually hear some sniffling while this is going on as we think of how far we've come from Christ's ideal. Then comes the part where the preacher reminds us that through the grace of God we are still loved and there is hope, (more sniffling as we feel relieved.)

Your idea that Christians sit in church and feel superior and smug, or that we don't believe in evolution, or that we don't care about the homeless, only shows how long it's been since you've been in a church. There would be no help for the homeless in my town if it wasn't for the joint effort of the Christian churches. My husband is treasurer of the food pantry/ homeless shelter, he knows.
 
Della said:
I'm not sure why you're calling me dishonest because I'm a believer, but I hate it.

The charge that we Christians are all hypocrites is an old one that I hear all the time. I don't get it. Just because we believe in Jesus and try to follow his teachings, it doesn't make us hypocrites when we fail. If you say you think someone is a great basketball player and then don't play it very well yourself does that make you a hypocrite?

We go to church to get better, it's those who think they don't need any improvement who are smug.

Here's the usual pattern of Lutheran sermons. Frist comes "The Law" where the preacher reads a passage of the New Testament where Jesus is telling us how we should be, you can usually hear some sniffling while this is going on as we think of how far we've come from Christ's ideal. Then comes the part where the preacher reminds us that through the grace of God we are still loved and there is hope, (more sniffling as we feel relieved.)

Your idea that Christians sit in church and feel superior and smug, or that we don't believe in evolution, or that we don't care about the homeless, only shows how long it's been since you've been in a church. There would be no help for the homeless in my town if it wasn't for the joint effort of the Christian churches. My husband is treasurer of the food pantry/ homeless shelter, he knows.
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My daughter manages a St Vincent de Paul camp site for the homeless. My sister is on the streets almost everyday helping homeless people. I became an advocate for the homeless when Reagan was in office. We are not Christians.

What do you know of evolution and the human condition? We are a social animal and we built splendid civilizations that lasted thousands of years before Judaism and Christianity and then Islam began telling us God's truth. Christian Europe was superstitious and brutal until the Renaissance turned things around and put us back on the path of science that ends evil better than anything in the Bible. All social animals are biologically compelled to be social and a benefit to others. That wipes out all the Christian understanding of our evil that requires a God to save us. A problem with Christianity is what Christians believe is true of humans.
 
Vida May said:
My daughter manages a St Vincent de Paul camp site for the homeless. My sister is on the streets almost everyday helping homeless people. I became an advocate for the homeless when Reagan was in office. We are not Christians.

What do you know of evolution and the human condition? We are a social animal and we built splendid civilizations that lasted thousands of years before Judaism and Christianity and then Islam began telling us God's truth. Christian Europe was superstitious and brutal until the Renaissance turned things around and put us back on the path of science that ends evil better than anything in the Bible. All social animals are biologically compelled to be social and a benefit to others. That wipes out all the Christian understanding of our evil that requires a God to save us. A problem with Christianity is what Christians believe is true of humans.
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LOL Your evidence that Christians do nothing for the homeless is that your not-a-Christian daughter manages a St Vincent de Paul site for the homeless. Saint Vincent de Paul is a Catholic organization, founded and funded by Catholics.

I'm not sure why you're so certain I know nothing of evolution and the human condition. Most modern churches teach the stories of origin stories of Genesis as oral history set down and the amazing thing is how close they follow what science teaches about evolution. Christianity is not anti-science, we can embrace both.

Everything I said was in defense of Christians, I said nothing bad about atheists while you blame Christians for everything bad in the world. Check your prisons for Christians and you wont find very many (unless they're faking it for parole). Wonder what happened to those social animals who "follow the path of science" and so should be perfect without religion? Wonder why we quit teaching religion to children and now we need "virtue classes?"
 
For a bit of levity, maybe this thread needs Richard Pryor as the Rev. Lenox Thomas with his “platinum healing glove!” Richard Pryor and Flip Wilson too could play spot-on evangelical ministers, complete with all of the cadences and mannerisms! 😸

 
Teacher Terry said:
That’s a horrible story and so sad that no one tried to help you. Ugh!!
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Some decades ago a young child broke through the ice of the pond in Munich's "Englischer Garten". It is not deep there, maybe a little more than three feet. There were many adult visitors who heard the crying child but NOBODY helped and the kid drowned. This is Munich, which calles itself "Weltstadt mit Herz" (cosmopolitan city with heart).
 
What I hate about church? I hate that during the Corona plandemic the churches had insulted, stigmatized and even excluded non vaccinated members from the service. And their priests did not come to console dying seniors and bring them the sacraments at the nursing homes. I know there were exceptions, for instance this one:

"During the corona pandemic, a trial judge is said to have made a decision in favor of her father. As a priest, he wanted to visit a palliative patient in a nursing home. He was not allowed access due to the coronavirus regulations. He turned to the court. There, his daughter, as a judge, granted him access by order. As a close family member, she would not have been allowed to do so. A trial against the 37-year-old has now begun at Gera District Court."
Gera: Ex-Richterin wegen Rechtsbeugung angeklagt | MDR.DE
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
 
I don't dislike anything about church. I don't go now, but we always used to go to church on a Sunday and Sunday evenings were for the youth club, which was great and lots of fun.

I like the atmosphere in churches, chapels and cathedrals, gives me goosebumps sometimes. Used to love singing the hymns too.
In the past when we visited different place either home or abroad, I liked to go inside and sit and feel what's around, do a bit of contemplating. I enjoy the services concerning the Royal Family, be it for Rememberances, Marriages/Deaths when it's aired on TV

Can't remember when I was last in church.
 
The responses of some negative posting without any redeeming balance shows a general lack of knowledge on the subject of religion and rather with intended exaggeration on my part, amounts to a non-religious person with a machine gun spewing bullets into a large diverse church going crowd now before him, because a few people in the small church he once attended were wearing clothing colors he didn't like, and others in the large crowd held up a sign he doesn't believe in, and he read how some religious leaders are perverts, so 1+1+1=3, by way of their beer brewed genius, they all need a bullet.
 
ElCastor said:
Being an Agnostic I don‘t go to Church, but I admit to an envious feeling when I see people lined up at a church door on Sunday. Religion is at the root of our civilization. It was the foundation of our social order as well as our concept of right, wrong, and morality. Considering the incredibly vast nature of the Universe, who am I to declare what may or may not be true.
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If you are a citizen of a democracy you hold a serious responsibility to learn, develop good judgment, and the ability to judge what is true and what is not, and participate politically for the good of all. However, it requires education to understand this and be prepared for it. When education for technology replaced liberal education and we left moral training to the church, we stopped preparing our young to be good citizens and now we have culture wars instead of a united and strong nation. I have a big problem with this!
 
David777 said:
The responses of some negative posting without any redeeming balance shows a general lack of knowledge on the subject of religion and rather with intended exaggeration on my part, amounts to a non-religious person with a machine gun spewing bullets into a large diverse church going crowd now before him, because a few people in the small church he once attended were wearing clothing colors he didn't like, and others in the large crowd held up a sign he doesn't believe in, and he read how some religious leaders are perverts, so 1+1+1=3, by way of their beer brewed genius, they all need a bullet.
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How do you see my post? I like to think I am saying something very important. In the past, education was about preparing the young for good citizenship and good moral judgment. This is essential to our liberty and democracy. We achieved the goal of preparing the young for good citizenship with literature. What the US achieved was awesome and that is not achieved with a focus on technology and the Bible.
 
George1959 said:
At first we ban political comments, then comments on religion, then on ... until there aren't left topics anymore. What about the first amendment of your constitution?
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/
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Or how about what is the responsibility of citizenship in a democracy? As a citizen of the US I feel a strong responsibility to discuss our understanding of truth and our morality and our agreements. There may be better places to discuss religion and politics and I would like to know where to find those discussions. Then I would go to those forums and not this one. Everyone could be happy.
 
I would never say the word “hate.” However, I never liked it when our Pastor preached out of the Old Testament. When we would leave the church and he would be at the door shaking hands and thanking people for coming, he knew what I was going to tell him. “No golf for you this week.” I would golf with him during nice weather and pick up the tab, but I told him if he was going to preach out of the Old Testament there would be no free golf for a month. He would just smile. He is a wonderful man, but now he’s retired and moved back home.
 
Folks, there is something I learned that you might want to consider.

It used to be that there were three trigger subjects - namely politics, religion, and money. Today I would add a few more, including immigration, gun control, abortion, sexual orientation, and the like.

A "trigger subject" is a subject that folks tend to have strong views about, and discussions can quickly turn into nasty arguments should the parties disagree. I think we all realize that.

But what hit me a number of years ago, is that no matter how "right" we feel we are, no matter how strong and logical our arguments may be, we will NEVER convince the other party that they are wrong in their belief.

So while I certainly wouldn't stop discussions on the subjects, we need to be careful from letting them escalate into arguments that will have zero positive outcomes.
 

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