Do you believe the saying, "It takes a village to raise a child?"

Depends on what is meant by village. I grew up in a small town with lots of close, extended family so was raised by a village. Parents knew and socialized with each other and there were only two small churches in town and two schools. Teen crime was virtually nil unless you count under age drinking and a little recreational pot. No hard drugs, rape, robberies. Two of the group got involved in dealing drugs at college and later did prison time, but for the most part, everyone has lived productive lives.
 

A quick search came up with this:
" It takes a village to raise a child is an African proverb that means that an entire community of people must interact with children for those children to experience and grow in a safe and healthy environment. ... This does not mean an entire village is responsible for raising a child or the children of a crowd. "
 
A quick search came up with this:
" It takes a village to raise a child is an African proverb that means that an entire community of people must interact with children for those children to experience and grow in a safe and healthy environment. ... This does not mean an entire village is responsible for raising a child or the children of a crowd. "
When I first came across this thread this morning, the first thing I thought of was Africa and the villages, and how the village adage (more than likely) related to such countries rather than the West.
 

A quick search came up with this:
" It takes a village to raise a child is an African proverb that means that an entire community of people must interact with children for those children to experience and grow in a safe and healthy environment. ... This does not mean an entire village is responsible for raising a child or the children of a crowd. "
That is how I understand the expression and the nature of a village. It is about family and community and education in life values. In my mind it is about aunties, uncles and cousins, teachers and neighbours. It is about elders. It is about children playing with each other outside and having a measure of freedom to explore their surroundings. It is necessarily about many people watching over them for their own good.
 
We all gain wisdom from different paths and places, some good - sad to say, some horrible.

However, IMO society is breaking down because of our isolation. Even isolation within what's left of our families.
I can tell you I sure notice a BIG difference today compared to yesteryear, when suppertime meant family time, everyone sat down at the table together. Mealtime actually stood for something.
 
I remember one Christmas going to visit some nephews of mine who were about fourteen or fifteen years old at their mothers house, along with my own mother. When my mother and sister were busy in the kitchen I sat down in the lounge with the lads to watch a comedy video I'd brought along of a popular TV comic called Frank Skinner. I'd chosen Frank's video because I thought the alternative, (Freddie Star), might be too racy

It turned out "Frank Skinner live on stage", was arguably more riske than the other videos I had, but luckily we watched the whole hour show with the mother/grandmother completely unaware, and as they came in the lads quickly switched off the video, and we all his our smirking faces.

My mother certainly wouldnt have approved of its contents, and I hope to this day my nephews might remember our little subversive activity, and the fun gained watching rude jokes not available on mainstream tv .

Does this make me a believer in " It takes a village to raise a child?". :unsure:.
 
A quick search came up with this:
" It takes a village to raise a child is an African proverb that means that an entire community of people must interact with children for those children to experience and grow in a safe and healthy environment. ... This does not mean an entire village is responsible for raising a child or the children of a crowd. "
I don't think that's what Hillary you-know-who meant when she started tossing that line around, though.
 
I don't think that's what ******* you-know-who meant when she started tossing that line around, though.

We're moving into the surveillance age aren't we, so its hard to know what's what anymore isn't it.

My issue with the thread topic is that in the UK there are no statutory parental rights, only responsibilities (sorry back on old theme here I know). Its said to be different in the US, and your individual states can frame their own laws in my his area.

Finally I do doubt I have a sense of being in any way responsible for others children, but I have no doubt many others are more public spirited or whatever it is, than I am.
 
We're moving into the surveillance age aren't we, so its hard to know what's what anymore isn't it.

My issue with the thread topic is that in the UK there are no statutory parental rights, only responsibilities (sorry back on old theme here I know). Its said to be different in the US, and your individual states can frame their own laws in my his area.

Finally I do doubt I have a sense of being in any way responsible for others children, but I have no doubt many others are more public spirited or whatever it is, than I am.

So in UK people don't have legal rights only responsibilities?
 
So in UK people don't have legal rights only responsibilities?

Only in regard to their own children they have no statutory rights, (that said there is something called "Common law rights", but definitely no statutory rights with Clem Henricson of the National family and parenting institute says may contravene human rights legislation).

Our own government's website on parental rights is worth checking out if you're bored and time, as it lists only the responsibilities parents have along side stuff like "You have the right to send your child to school", (when in fact its an obligation to do so, obviously).

However, as even I admit its too boring, lets stick with thoughts of whether "a village raises a child" shall we, or the extent to with they/we do(?).
 
Only in regard to their own children they have no statutory rights, (that said there is something called "Common law rights", but definitely no statutory rights with Clem Henricson of the National family and parenting institute says may contravene human rights legislation).

Our own government's website on parental rights is worth checking out if you're bored and time, as it lists only the responsibilities parents have along side stuff like "You have the right to send your child to school", (when in fact its an obligation to do so, obviously).

However, as even I admit its too boring, lets stick with thoughts of whether "a village raises a child" shall we, or the extent to with they/we do(?).
Well, if you read your previous thread, you brought up the topic.
 
Well, if you read your previous thread, you brought up the topic.

I accept the criticism, I did didn't I, (unfortunately I have a habit dont you know, as an excluded parent/father). 🐖🐑🐐🐂🙏 .

What kind of world will emerge following this pandemic, should its effects eventually be brought under control for a semblance of normal life to resume, where visiting your friends or relatives isn't a crime, and something they'd be afraid of you doing right now.
 
Some expert views on all this:

Abstract
The article questions the normative universality of children's rights by considering the ideal definition of childhood implicit in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and other international law documents. It questions whether this definition has any universal purchase in light of different conceptions of childhood held across the world. The article distinguishes between rights that children have as human beings, and rights they are regarded as having by virtue of their age. The latter are regarded as problematic and the article illustrates this with examples that challenge the conception of childhood underlying the CRC. The article presents alternatives that may conflict with the assumptions underlying the CRC, and challenges the universal nature of the rights enshrined.

Additional information
Notes
This question could of course also be asked about adults, and further raises the question of what it means to be a child or to be an adult to children themselves. In the case of children however, the question is presumed to be answerable, but answers are usually given for children, rather than by children.

V. Pupavac, ‘The Infantilization of the South and the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child’ in H.J. Steiner and P. Alston (eds), International Human Rights in Context, 2 nd ed. (Oxford: Oxford University Press 2000), p.517.

The details of the centuries-old debate between choice and interest theory cannot be addressed in the context of this article, but for a detailed account of the many dimensions of what is at issue between them see M.H. Kramer, N.E. Simmonds, H. Steiner, A Debate Over Rights (Oxford: Clarendon Press 1998).

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13642980500032370
 
Some expert views on all this:

Abstract
The article questions the normative universality of children's rights by considering the ideal definition of childhood implicit in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and other international law documents. It questions whether this definition has any universal purchase in light of different conceptions of childhood held across the world. The article distinguishes between rights that children have as human beings, and rights they are regarded as having by virtue of their age. The latter are regarded as problematic and the article illustrates this with examples that challenge the conception of childhood underlying the CRC. The article presents alternatives that may conflict with the assumptions underlying the CRC, and challenges the universal nature of the rights enshrined.

Additional information
Notes
This question could of course also be asked about adults, and further raises the question of what it means to be a child or to be an adult to children themselves. In the case of children however, the question is presumed to be answerable, but answers are usually given for children, rather than by children.

V. Pupavac, ‘The Infantilization of the South and the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child’ in H.J. Steiner and P. Alston (eds), International Human Rights in Context, 2 nd ed. (Oxford: Oxford University Press 2000), p.517.

The details of the centuries-old debate between choice and interest theory cannot be addressed in the context of this article, but for a detailed account of the many dimensions of what is at issue between them see M.H. Kramer, N.E. Simmonds, H. Steiner, A Debate Over Rights (Oxford: Clarendon Press 1998).

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13642980500032370

1. "Experts." All anyone needs to do to gain a perspective on that term is to read approaches to childcare topics over the decades/generations. An 'expert' today expressing a viewpoint is not necessarily better-informed than an 'expert' of 50 years ago.

2. "Children." The U.S. has been taking huge steps backward. While states vary in what's considered the age-of-majority, there's been an increased focus on what constitutes a "child." However, it's the hypocrisy that's pushing the U.S. back into the past- I was too young to be affected by the nonsensical "Old enough for THIS, but not old enough for THAT" approach, but it affected my older siblings. One, for example, was "old enough" to be serving in a war, while not "old enough" to vote.

When it comes to "children's rights," though, the U.S. is really messing up. Examples. As states are enacting laws against underage marriage, underage couples who want to raise their children together can live together, but they cannot enter into a valid marriage. Second, if you're familiar with this nonsense known as "emancipation," with specifics varying from state to state, kids who are still in high school can move out of their parents' homes and out on their own, without any reason other than "personal choice." Third, although it's a good idea to discourage kids (and others) from smoking, in some states kids as young as 14 can move out on their own, but cannot buy a pack of cigarettes til they're 21.

Kids of all ages should have certain rights- the right to be treated as human beings, their feelings and needs addressed, etc., but the modern approach to children's rights has come to mean kids have rights and parents have none. One example from a recent news story: a father who lived with his wife and kids learned he did not have the right to see his 13-year-old's medical records. An example from another forum: a "counselor" threatened a couple with possible loss of custody because they were trying to make their 13-year-old attend church when he didn't want to do so.

So- all sense of "family" has virtually been destroyed. There's no longer any sense of structure; and kids' everyday lives are based on what kids "want," or the "say" of counselors, social workers, schoolteachers, and nearly everybody else kids come in contact with except their own parents.
I don't know your age or anything about your location, but wasn't life/family/etc. so much more SENSIBLE when households were headed by parents, and parents (whether together or split-up) were expected to iron-out their differences and usually did so without outside interference?! As I said on one of your old threads, the one topic that should have been addressed in recent decades is actual child abuse- but from what I've seen in recent years, there's been very little progress on that subject. Instead, "parenting" has been taken over by kids and outsiders, to the point parents don't even have the say in what their kids can have for lunch.
 
In my opinion, that's as wrong as the U.S. approach- although they're exact opposites.
Over here, it's all about "rights," but without "responsibilities."

Thanks for entering the discussion, (again is it?).

It all gets immensely complicated when you start to look at the work of "experts" examining the details of where "rights" might exist, and to my mind this bug bear of "the best interests of the child", which in the end simply means who gets to determine those interests, the parent or some government agency, and then whether or not your relationship with your child can be truly deemed a right for the child, (as in my view, whilst government agencies can assist those wishing to destroy your relationship, it is beyond the control of any agency to force such a relationship to develop in a loving fashion).

Here is one take on the complicated issues surrounding children's rights etc. - I'm quoting it here, and the link to a large academic article because of the mention of the best interests of the child etc.
Quote
"The international children’s rights regime assumes that there is a model of childhood development that is universally applicable, that there are universal needs, such as the need for rehabilitation, and that there is a consensus both domestically and internationally on what policies should be in place to realise the best interests of the child (Boyden, 1994: 256). In effect, the convention institutionalises and universalises the predominant Western social risk-management model of childhood development which emphasises individual causations and professional intervention and de-emphasises the influence of the wider social, economic, political and cultural circumstances (Boyden,1990; King, 1997a; Lewis, 1998; Parton, 1985). Human rights lawyers have sought to counter criticisms that the convention was the creation of Western policymakers and‘ dispel the myth that the international law on the rights of the child is exclusively the product of Western states’ (Van Bueren, 1995: xix). However, examining its provisions, itis evident that the universal standards of the convention are based on a particular Western conceptualisation of childhood and the good (Boyden, 1990; McGillivray, 1992; Lewis,1998)."

https://www.academia.edu/3701281/Mi...ers_The_International_Childrens_Rights_Regime
 
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Thanks for entering the discussion, (again is it?).

It all gets immensely complicated when you start to look at the work of "experts" examining the details of where "rights" might exist, and to my mind this bug bear of "the best interests of the child", which in the end simply means who gets to determine those interests, the parent or some government agency, and then whether or not your relationship with your child can be truly deemed a right for the child, (as in my view, whilst government agencies can assist those wishing to destroy your relationship, it is beyond the control of any agency to force such a relationship to develop in a loving fashion).

Here is one take on the complicated issues surrounding children's rights etc. - I'm quoting it here, and the link to a large academic article because of the mention of the best interests of the child etc.
Quote
"The international children’s rights regime assumes that there is a model of childhood development that is universally applicable, that there are universal needs, such as the need for rehabilitation, and that there is a consensus both domestically and internationally on what policies should be in place to realise the best interests of the child (Boyden, 1994: 256). In effect, the convention institutionalises and universalises the predominant Western social risk-management model of childhood development which emphasises individual causations and professional intervention and de-emphasises the influence of the wider social, economic, political and cultural circumstances (Boyden,1990; King, 1997a; Lewis, 1998; Parton, 1985). Human rights lawyers have sought to counter criticisms that the convention was the creation of Western policymakers and‘ dispel the myth that the international law on the rights of the child is exclusively the product of Western states’ (Van Bueren, 1995: xix). However, examining its provisions, itis evident that the universal standards of the convention are based on a particular Western conceptualisation of childhood and the good (Boyden, 1990; McGillivray, 1992; Lewis,1998)."

https://www.academia.edu/3701281/Mi...ers_The_International_Childrens_Rights_Regime
In my opinion, it doesn't need to be complicated at all- all it'd take is basic common sense.
I fully agree with what Dr. Gardner said- the first and #1 factor that led to "the best interests of the child" to not be considered at all, along with the upswing in PA and many other problems, was when "joint custody" laws started. And when forced "child support" is added into it, it only gets worse.
 
In my opinion, it doesn't need to be complicated at all- all it'd take is basic common sense.
I fully agree with what Dr. Gardner said- the first and #1 factor that led to "the best interests of the child" to not be considered at all, along with the upswing in PA and many other problems, was when "joint custody" laws started. And when forced "child support" is added into it, it only gets worse.

I would not have wanted my daughter diagnosed as "suffering from PAS" (Parental Alienation Syndrome), and simply could not have gone along with any such intrusive intervention by professionals into her life.

I have to say too, looking g at some of my mates behaviour following divorce, they brought upon themselves many of the troubles they had seeing their kids (they could say the thing about me).

There are complexities, and if there were not professors wouldn't get paid for writing about them. 🤔 .
 
If no one minds I'll keep posting snippets to this article, (the last one I cited above):
https://www.academia.edu/3701281/Mi...ers_The_International_Childrens_Rights_Regime

Quote
"The institutionalisation of human rights as higher law trumping national sovereignty does not just signify disillusion with states to secure rights, but with adult agency in general. In the rejection of the previous presumption that they represent their children’s interests, adults are denied their moral agency. Implicit in the international children’s rights regime is not only the institutionalisation of a particular Western conceptualisation of childhood, but a misanthropic view of adulthood. So although the children’s rights advocacy movement is conceived of as an ethical and emancipatory project, it does not represent a humanist turn towards a more equitable world."
 

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