Ohio Reopening - Bars, Young People, and Non-Compliance with Guidelines

[Butterfly]

Congress shall make no law abridging the right of people to peaceably assemble. That's the first amendment in the Bill of Rights, which all of the politicians seem to have conveniently forgotten. We cannot stay on lockdown forever.

Congress didn't make any laws about the states' coronavirus response, i.e., closures, etc. The matter of closures is all in the hands of the individual states, pursuant to their own state constitutions specifying their governor's rights and responsibilities in a state of health emergency.

The only thing the individual states' responses have to do with the US Constitution is that the US Constitution delegates all rights to the states that the Constitution does not specifically give to the federal government. The federal government has no authority to order businesses in a state to either close or reopen.

So get bent out of shape with your own state government, not congress.

 

[CarolfromTX]

I was quoting the Constitution. Butterfly, the Constitution trumps all the states' laws. You cannot prohibit freedom of assembly. Period. I think we were all willing to go on lockdown for a month, then for 6 weeks, and then it got old. Pretty soon it's going to be pitchforks in the streets.

Actually, my state government has done pretty well. They issued guidelines. State governors do not have the power to make laws and Greg Abbott knows that. He supported a salon owner who did not follow the guidelines.

 

[Lewkat]

Congress shall make no law abridging the right of people to peaceably assemble. That's the first amendment in the Bill of Rights, which all of the politicians seem to have conveniently forgotten. We cannot stay on lockdown forever.

Well, if you get sick and recover all well and good, but if you pass to someone who does not, have fun in jail.

 

[In The Sticks]

Well, if you get sick and recover all well and good, but if you pass to someone who does not, have fun in jail.

I know how this has been so overblown by the media to keep us in fear...but daggone it, the levels of infection after 5 months have not yet reached the level of just a few weeks of a regular flu.

Is there no independent thought left?

And this is not directed specifically at you, Lewkat. But don't you think we're being had when some flu seasons see an infection rate of 1 in 6 and nothing's done, while this is 1 in 200 and the country has been shut down and is literally destroying lives?

 

[Lewkat]

I know how this has been so overblown by the media to keep us in fear...but daggone it, the levels of infection after 5 months have not yet reached the level of just a few weeks of a regular flu.

Is there no independent thought left?

And this is not directed specifically at you, Lewkat. But don't you think we're being had when some flu seasons see an infection rate of 1 in 6 and nothing's done, while this is 1 in 200 and the country has been shut down and is literally destroying lives?

I agree In The Sticks, but it seems as though these people are flaunting the guidelines. Actually, I am seeing a lot of folks out and about, I am one, but I stay on my own property, and they are not wearing masks. I have to figure they are well acquainted as they are kids who do need to socialize. I just posted on another thread about the numbers being skewed and in the very worst ways, but make no mistake, if you do get sick, you are going to feel like dying. I've had the flu in the past, and this does not resemble the flu in any shape form or manner whatsoever. I am 87 with nodes on my lungs and cardiomyopathy, and I am amazed at my constitution. I am being treated for the heart problem, yes and the nodes are very small and so far as we know we have no idea how long they've been there. Otherwise, except for the usual old age bones that ache and what not I am in pretty good shape, so I am very lucky my friend. Most who die have a pre-existing condition or even have died as a result of an accident and because they were found to have the virus present post mortem it is counted as a COVID death. Those are the things that skew the numbers and cause the media to scare the living daylights out of everyone.

 

[In The Sticks]

I agree In The Sticks, but it seems as though these people are flaunting the guidelines. Actually, I am seeing a lot of folks out and about, I am one, but I stay on my own property, and they are not wearing masks. I have to figure they are well acquainted as they are kids who do need to socialize. I just posted on another thread about the numbers being skewed and in the very worst ways, but make no mistake, if you do get sick, you are going to feel like dying. I've had the flu in the past, and this does not resemble the flu in any shape form or manner whatsoever. I am 87 with nodes on my lungs and cardiomyopathy, and I am amazed at my constitution. I am being treated for the heart problem, yes and the nodes are very small and so far as we know we have no idea how long they've been there. Otherwise, except for the usual old age bones that ache and what not I am in pretty good shape, so I am very lucky my friend. Most who die have a pre-existing condition or even have died as a result of an accident and because they were found to have the virus present post mortem it is counted as a COVID death. Those are the things that skew the numbers and cause the media to scare the living daylights out of everyone.

I understand. For us it's scary.

I'm so glad you survived it. I agree that for a given demographic (you & me) it can be horrid. We should take reasonable precautions. I've cut back my shopping trips. My several-times-a-week impulse trips are now limited to once a week. But that's my responsibility to myself. And I have the option to not get underfoot, since I don't work.

What's been done to everyone else is not reasonable, in my opinion. I was reading a Web MD article on this, and they state that only 1 in 6 who do get this have what they referred to as "serious symptoms." Right now the cure is worse than the disease, and I think people are pushing back on being controlled for minimal-to-no health benefit. They see an infection rate of 1/2 of 1% versus prior flu seasons of 5% to 15% and are feeling had. The reality and the rhetoric do not reconcile. This is taking a long-term destructive toll on folks. I hope they can recover.

 

[win231]

Some of the "cautions" about re-opening businesses are simply not realistic. Others are downright asinine.
A restaurant or bar depends on crowds to make money & stay in business, so the 6-ft. social distancing ain't gonna work. And, how do people eat or drink with a mask on?

I heard an equally silly regulation for schools opening: "Desks 6 feet apart" & an empty seat between each seat on school buses. The seats on a school bus are 1-2 feet wide. So....now 12 -24 inches is a safe social distance?

 

[Butterfly]

I was quoting the Constitution. Butterfly, the Constitution trumps all the states' laws. You cannot prohibit freedom of assembly. Period. I think we were all willing to go on lockdown for a month, then for 6 weeks, and then it got old. Pretty soon it's going to be pitchforks in the streets.

Actually, my state government has done pretty well. They issued guidelines. State governors do not have the power to make laws and Greg Abbott knows that. He supported a salon owner who did not follow the guidelines.

With respect, during a health emergency, states can, indeed prohibit freedom of assembly. The Constitution says
"Congress shall make no law prohibiting . . . ." Congress didn't make any such law, but Texas declared a state of emergency, which gave the governor the power to issue executive directives which have the power of law until they expire or are retracted.

Read your Texas Government Code, Chapter 418, which sets out the emergency powers of government entities in Texas, including the governor.

Under a declared state of emergency like an epidemic, states DO have the temporary emergency power to prohibit freedom of assembly.

 

[In The Sticks]

Some of the "cautions" about re-opening businesses are simply not realistic. Others are downright asinine.
A restaurant or bar depends on crowds to make money & stay in business, so the 6-ft. social distancing ain't gonna work. And, how do people eat or drink with a mask on?

I heard an equally silly regulation for schools opening: "Desks 6 feet apart" & an empty seat between each seat on school buses. The seats on a school bus are 1-2 feet wide. So....now 12 -24 inches is a safe social distance?

My state "opened the beaches."

Stand in the sea breeze and stay 6 feet apart.