T-Shirt Controversy

ClassicRockr said:
Have to admit, was LOL when reading what I highlighted in red below.
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HUN.... you are more than welcome to stand in shorter lines with lot's of fire power... As I said.. give me unarmed LONG lines anyday... Don't have to worry about inadvertantly pissing anyone off....

Anyway... I always wonder about men needing to brandish about the biggest... longest... weapon they can find.. and what it is they are compensating for.. (?)
 

why do some folks make it a sexual thing when someone else doesn't agree with them? I didn't ask you if your shoes were too tight. At least I don't have to worry about some wacko running around cutting off heads.
 
Actually, QuickSiliver, I was replying to what rt3 said in his reply. As for me, I'll take an "unarmed" line anytime.

QuickSilver said:
HUN.... you are more than welcome to stand in shorter lines with lot's of fire power... As I said.. give me unarmed LONG lines anyday... Don't have to worry about inadvertantly pissing anyone off....

Anyway... I always wonder about men needing to brandish about the biggest... longest... weapon they can find.. and what it is they are compensating for.. (?)
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besides, the guy with gun and I have something to talk about, instead of standing behind someone who gets pissed because of a T shirt.
 
Actually, there are stats that show that crime would be much less if people did "carry". Be less "court costs" as well. I learned how to shoot when in the Navy and have taught my wife how to "lock and load" and she is darn good at handling a handgun or rifle. Just saying.

Anyway, doubt if anyone would pull a gun and shoot, let alone tell a cop, "I shot him/her because they said something negative about my t-shirt." Just like Groucho Marx said, "that has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard".
 
that's my point its whats on the T shirt, people kill for less. (the lady probably doesn't even know who Grouch Marx is, even if she did she could respond that he was one of the most sexiest persons to live, invalidating any legitimate claim he might have). Also the lady doesn't have to say anything, but "it was self-defense". knowing what comes after shooting a weapon is probably more important than the act itself. don't presuppose.

lets see now
heres a guy what doesn't like a person expressing their 1St amend. rights
and the same guy doesn't like a person expressing their 2nd amen. rights.

Now the guy standing next to you has a gun in plain sight, --- you know what he is going to do and saying, (bad guys don't tip their hands by wearing guns),
or a guy standing in line next to you complaining about the wording on a T-Shirt, (both conative and denotative) who you don't have any idea what this guy is going to do.

Jury is out.
 
ClassicRockr said:
Wife was looking at toothpaste and a black lady next to her was wearing a t-shirt that said "Justice For Jordan". I looked at her and said "not everyone is going to agree with your t-shirt". She didn't take it very well of what I said and told us, "I'm part of the family". I told her, "you just have to be ready if someone doesn't agree with you and the t-shirt." She didn't like me saying that either. I then told her, "sorry about how you feel about what I said, but with respect ma'am, you are the one wearing the t-shirt, not me." She looked like she was going to take our photo, so I grabbed my wife and we walked away.
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There are many people these days who wear 'justice for' tee-shirts when someone in their family, or a friend, was senselessly killed, as in this case. It's worn especially if the murderer has not been found, or has not been justly convicted for the crime.

The lady clearly said that she was part of his family, although she really didn't need to explain anything. She likely felt insulted that someone was warning her about how others may feel about her shirt, like she wouldn't have already known that on her own. Also, she may have thought that the comment was the beginning of a confrontation by someone who didn't agree with her shirt.

I'm just trying to look at it from the eyes of that woman, from the information given here in this thread. I think her reaction was very natural.
 
QuickSilver said:
This of course would be a whole 'nother debate thread... However, I will say this.. If I were in a store and some Yahoo was walking around slinging a loaded gun over his shoulder.. Open carry legal or not.. I would leave the store, but not before telling the manager WHY... and follow it up with a letter to the Corporate headquarters. But.. that's just me........ and a whole bunch of other sensible people. Businesses are allowed to ban guns.. and if enough customers walk out... they will.
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HEY!!!! I saw one of those guys at Walmart.
 
ClassicRockr said:
Actually, there are stats that show that crime would be much less if people did "carry". Be less "court costs" as well. I learned how to shoot when in the Navy and have taught my wife how to "lock and load" and she is darn good at handling a handgun or rifle. Just saying.

Anyway, doubt if anyone would pull a gun and shoot, let alone tell a cop, "I shot him/her because they said something negative about my t-shirt." Just like Groucho Marx said, "that has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard".
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Why not? Wasn't Skittles and an Ice Tea enough to get someone killed? AND for the murderer to walk?
 
ClassicRockr said:
Actually, there are stats that show that crime would be much less if people did "carry". Be less "court costs" as well. I learned how to shoot when in the Navy and have taught my wife how to "lock and load" and she is darn good at handling a handgun or rifle. Just saying.

Anyway, doubt if anyone would pull a gun and shoot, let alone tell a cop, "I shot him/her because they said something negative about my t-shirt." Just like Groucho Marx said, "that has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard".
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Could you point us to those stats, because you've gotta know living in our illustrious state, that just in the past year or two we've had a number of these irresponsible shooting cases including the one where you comment to the woman about her t-shirt

There's controversy as to whether to repel the the stand your ground laws here and around the country partly because of so many trigger happy gun carrying folks shooting people for all kinds of reasons such as not liking, someone's loud music, not liking someone texting/talking on a mobile phone, infidelity, minor arguments and the like.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/26/us/man-faces-second-trial-in-killing-of-florida-teenager.html?_r=0

Let it be known, that Jordan Davis is dead, due to a gun shot from a gun Dunn aim at the car Davis was a passenger. Davis is why the woman was wearing the T-shirt and that though Dunn has received a conviction it is not for the death of Davis. Why one would feel a need to say something to this women such as what you said, is baffling and IMO a bit insensitive while we're just stating opinions. I'm sure her heart was heavy in the matter. Living in FL I'm sure she is very aware of how many people think in such instances. We've had more than enough such cases and people will always justify such actions depending upon their own personal feelings.
 
Hmmmn, tricky one this. I have not heard about this case [so thanks April for the info.] I would not have said anything at all to the woman. It's true that if you wear a T shirt with a statement on it, you may expect some comment, and perhaps she had some positive comments already but not a negative one. It's true you didn't say anything negative, but she took it that way.If somebody has died, it's wiser not to say anything to upset them further.I understand that you are a 'chatty fella' but sometimes even with good intentions we can get things wrong.
 
stats are easy, Dept of Justice, or FBI check them out. What is amazing to me is the illustrious cartoonist needs the NRA people to be fat and carrying a "WHOLE BUNCH OF GUNS" and and have a Freudian fixation, when it would suggest they lack the conjones themselves. And the wild west claims really crack me up. Per capita shootings in the wild west states are not even 1/10 of what they are in civilized states, New York, New Jersey, Florida, to say nothing about Illinois. Really good case of Cranialrectalmetamorphis.
 
rt3 said:
stats are easy, Dept of Justice, or FBI check them out. What is amazing to me is the illustrious cartoonist needs the NRA people to be fat and carrying a "WHOLE BUNCH OF GUNS" and and have a Freudian fixation, when it would suggest they lack the conjones themselves. And the wild west claims really crack me up. Per capita shootings in the wild west states are not even 1/10 of what they are in civilized states, New York, New Jersey, Florida, to say nothing about Illinois. Really good case of Cranialrectalmetamorphis.
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Eh... most of the shooting are gang related... And innocent people get shot because gang members are such bad shots... So you think a bunch of Yahoos packing heat in Walmart won't shoot innocent people if they perceive there is a reason to fire all those guns? That's just what is needed... a bunch of fools firing away and not knowing what the hell they are firing at.
 
rt3 said:
stats are easy, Dept of Justice, or FBI check them out. What is amazing to me is the illustrious cartoonist needs the NRA people to be fat and carrying a "WHOLE BUNCH OF GUNS" and and have a Freudian fixation, when it would suggest they lack the conjones themselves. And the wild west claims really crack me up. Per capita shootings in the wild west states are not even 1/10 of what they are in civilized states, New York, New Jersey, Florida, to say nothing about Illinois. Really good case of Cranialrectalmetamorphis.
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Nonsense and nonsensical foaming of the mouth doesn't make it true it just only shows that people are tying in good policing with the timing of gun laws in some areas. I didn't make a claim, so I shouldn't have to search out these stats, they should have been offered. Now if you want to see more stories about the law abiding citizens shooting up people at the drop of a hat with their licensed amo, I can provide several from the past few years for my state alone and if you are of the opinion that three such cases is just a drop in the bucket and doesn't matter, than I have no more words for the like of such people that are of such mindset.

BTW, my original post had nothing to do with being against open carry, I'm against how the stand your ground laws have been applied in some cases. I do think more people should be tested for mental health, especially those that may plan to open carry, before being allowed to purchase such deadly weapons. I'm not against people having the right to bear arms.


Shootings have increased substantially since stand your ground law went into effect in Fl.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/s...ris-smith-claimed-deaths-due-self-defense-fl/

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...da-stand-your-ground-law-have-history/1241378

http://www.tampabay.com/news/state-will-use-newspapers-analysis-for-stand-your-ground-review/1233646

other cases in other areas

http://endstandyourground.wordpress...shocking-stand-your-ground-incidents-of-2013/

http://www.propublica.org/article/five-stand-your-ground-cases-you-should-know-about
 
The 2nd amendment calls for a WELL REGULATED militia.. SOOOOO.. until the Walmart vigilantes can prove they attend regular guard meetings and are enlisted in a Militia...

second-amendment-militias.jpg
 
Your re-rendering of the 2nd is incorrect, I will not cite the supreme court decisions that support self defense or right to carry, you need to "catch up".
\
Good luck defining mental health, it shows your ignorance on the subject.

standing there shaking your finger and going "shame, shame on you don't mean squat"
 
not understanding why you think the gang yahoos would risk a shootout with the good guy cowboys anywhere let alone a Wal-mart. (could fortify the butcher shop, and eat between fire fights I suppose) at least until swat showed up.
 
QuickSilver said:
do you REALLY believe the middle of a WalMart is the place for political debate? Particularly uninvited unwelcome political debate? Seriously.. there are other venues more suitable. And as for being confrontational or not... is coming up to someone and advising them that they BETTER be prepared to defend their view expressed on their shirt anything but confrontational? In my book it's confrontational.. or at the very minimum a challenge.. no matter how nicely it's said.
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Yep, you're right, Walmart might not be the right place for a full on debate, but realistically speaking, Davey's words weren't such that he was inviting debate personally. It was a comment to somebody as a result of a message that she wanted to throw out there for public consumption. Some seem to be assuming that he antagonized the woman when my impression was that he was just giving her a friendly heads-up that some folks might not agree with her opinion and she chose to read something into it that wasn't even there. The way you made it sound in your comment above, it was like he challenged her when I don't think he did at all. At least not as he wrote it in his initial question.

Besides, if you don't want to get into a discussion with anybody, then keep your mouth shut.
Or in this case, if you don't want to get into a discussion, leave the T-shirt at home.
 
Nonsense.. Saying something to someone is a heck of a lot different than just wearing a T-shirt. If I walk up to you and make a comment... a response is expected.. If I walk by you with a T-shirt with a message.. that is NOT inviting a comment, but going on about my business only to be accosted by you. I am amazed you cannot see the difference.
 
it is the perception of the antagonism that is the point, not the intent of the people. Perceptions vary from locale to locale, there is no right or wrong, only one's willingness to get bumped on the head.
 
ClassicRockr said:
Absolutely NOTHING was done like you wrote below! The lady was standing to my right/facing me, in the isle, and looking at her cell phone. My wife was standing to my left, looking at toothpaste on the shelf. I only made a comment about the "t"......nothing else! I did not "demand", as you call it, an answer or anything else from this lady!
What I'd like to know is where in the heck you are coming up with this stuff that I didn't do????

As far as openly carrying a firearm here, have never seen it on anybody except law enforcement. Actually, I think it's illegal to do in Florida. Carrying a firearm, whether is "openly" or "concealed" is fine with me as long as the firearm is used for protection.........not b/c someone gets pissed off at someone else and decides to pull the firearm and shoot the person.
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Sorry Classic. For some silly reason I got it in my head that it was Davey who had the experience with the lady in the T-shirt, and used his name in my comments. My apologies for making the mistake. But I was also wondering where the idea of demands and rudeness, etc., came from. Oh well, sometimes conversations take on a life of their own. Keeps them interesting I guess.
 
I think the forum administrator is telling us all to "can't we all just get along" ( wasn't that a line from the president in Mars Attacks just before the Martians killed him?)
 

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