When I'm convinced its Safe and Effective I'll get it, but not until then.
Yet Another Contradiction On Ways To Catch The Virus
- Thread starter fmdog44
- Start date
When I'm convinced its Safe and Effective I'll get it, but not until then.
fmdog44
Well-known Member
- Location
- Houston, Texas
It has been on the news repeatedly over the past week on several networks. Sorry, no link. Try Google.
Stay away from the Biograph Theater if you know what's good for you.
JaniceM
Well-known Member
- Location
- still lost between two shores..
I was told all a person needed to do was start crossing the street after the light changed.
Lethe200
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area
This is a novel coronavirus; e.g., never seen before. So ALL studies are very preliminary, what scientists and health officials are looking for are trends. It will take many months - years, probably - before we'll have enough data to make definitive statements about things like "how close is too close?"
A recent WashPost article pointed out the 6' rule has always been offered as a general rule, NOT an absolute. For example, we know (from many scientific videos) that aerosols from a sneeze can travel up to 18 feet (as opposed to larger droplets, which don't usually travel more than 2-3 feet).
But we also know that not all sneezed aerosols will travel a full 18 feet. What we DON'T know is how many of those aerosols that are contagious are needed to infect someone who is at a distance of 8 feet....or 11 feet.....or 15 feet away.
And it obviously depends on other factors: is the other person wearing a mask? How long did they stay close by (multiple study data seem to indicate that 15 min close exposure is the "red zone" for risking infection)? Indoors, or out? Breeze blowing? Vented A/C pushing the aerosols towards that other person, or away from them?
We know masks reduce the rate of infection from viruses because it's worked for every single virus (there are over 2,000 flu viruses alone) and coronavirus that has been discovered so far. It's a generalization, but in light of over 100 yrs of recorded mask usage, we can assume it's advice that has been well-tested.
A recent WashPost article pointed out the 6' rule has always been offered as a general rule, NOT an absolute. For example, we know (from many scientific videos) that aerosols from a sneeze can travel up to 18 feet (as opposed to larger droplets, which don't usually travel more than 2-3 feet).
But we also know that not all sneezed aerosols will travel a full 18 feet. What we DON'T know is how many of those aerosols that are contagious are needed to infect someone who is at a distance of 8 feet....or 11 feet.....or 15 feet away.
And it obviously depends on other factors: is the other person wearing a mask? How long did they stay close by (multiple study data seem to indicate that 15 min close exposure is the "red zone" for risking infection)? Indoors, or out? Breeze blowing? Vented A/C pushing the aerosols towards that other person, or away from them?
We know masks reduce the rate of infection from viruses because it's worked for every single virus (there are over 2,000 flu viruses alone) and coronavirus that has been discovered so far. It's a generalization, but in light of over 100 yrs of recorded mask usage, we can assume it's advice that has been well-tested.
Thank you! The novel (New) coronavirus is new to everyone, and the scientists and health officials are gaining information and giving the best advice possible at the moment for slowing the spread of COVID-19. They shouldn't be criticized for observing trends and studying more about this particular virus. I'm very forgiving if they change their positions on recommendations, at least they are making an effort to contain this pandemic and research areas that we do not have access to. We should support all the work they're doing for us and not put them down for it. Not the time to nitpick, IMO.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
Here are a few odd facts about microbiological infections, (or what I believe are facts anyway?).
According to work done on the subject many years ago, one organism on its own is believed to be unable to start a new infection in a hosts body.
Trying to infect a hosts body experimentally without injecting the micro organisms directly, can be difficult to achieve.
Other micro organisms, for example on the surface of all our skin, help protect us from more harmful organisms you might encounter, that may harm you or enter the body via that route.
I attended a small conference where the subject of airborne infections was briefly discussed, and at the time only one person in the room was prepared to assert airborne infections were common.
One veterinary surgeon I questioned said most infections he encountered in the animals he treated, were likely to have been infected by direct contact with infective material/body fluids, such as blood, vomit etc. There is I believe, far more of this kind of direct contact than members of the pubic might imagine.
It is believed that to remain active for any length of time outside its host, the micro organisms needs to be mixed in or amongst organic matter.
Although a great deal will be learnt about infectious diseases, how they're spread etc as a result of the current pandemic, (certainly this Covid 19 virus), I believe the "facts" I've stated above, or things I've asserted are facts, will remain to a large extent, basically true or unchallenged scientifically.
According to work done on the subject many years ago, one organism on its own is believed to be unable to start a new infection in a hosts body.
Trying to infect a hosts body experimentally without injecting the micro organisms directly, can be difficult to achieve.
Other micro organisms, for example on the surface of all our skin, help protect us from more harmful organisms you might encounter, that may harm you or enter the body via that route.
I attended a small conference where the subject of airborne infections was briefly discussed, and at the time only one person in the room was prepared to assert airborne infections were common.
One veterinary surgeon I questioned said most infections he encountered in the animals he treated, were likely to have been infected by direct contact with infective material/body fluids, such as blood, vomit etc. There is I believe, far more of this kind of direct contact than members of the pubic might imagine.
It is believed that to remain active for any length of time outside its host, the micro organisms needs to be mixed in or amongst organic matter.
Although a great deal will be learnt about infectious diseases, how they're spread etc as a result of the current pandemic, (certainly this Covid 19 virus), I believe the "facts" I've stated above, or things I've asserted are facts, will remain to a large extent, basically true or unchallenged scientifically.
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Absolutely! All of medical progress is based on learning and finding and adapting new treatments, etc., to fight disease. Otherwise we would still be in a world where smallpox and bubonic plague killed off zillions of people every year and antibiotics were unheard of.
Good point but just to be perfectly clear, antibiotics do nothing to kill viruses. They only kill bacterial infections which can be caused by viruses.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/qa/why-do-antibiotics-not-work-against-viruses
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
I was not implying that antibiotics kill viruses. I was listing antibiotics as one of the things that wouldn't be around if science never changed it's mind about anything. Sorry for any misunderstanding I caused.
No problem. I guess I’m clarifying it since there are so many people out there that go running to their doctor at the first sign of a common cold to get antibiotics which actually lower the immune system. All antibiotics do is kill bacteria. Unfortunately they aren’t BAD bacteria specific. They kill ALL bacteria which include the immune protecting kinds.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
Can I throw my twopenneth into the debate, or put forward my understanding at least.
Firstly antibiotics don't really need to kill bacteria, to be effective, (as disinfectants can kill infectious agents, in the right conditions, given enough exposure time, at the right concentrations etc.). All antibiotics need to do is "inhibit" the growth of bacteria, or inhibit the spread of bacteria, in order to be effective. Once you've achieved this level of control of the bacterial infection the bodies own defence mechanisms can more easily mop up the bacteria by various means.
The connection between bacterial infections and viral infections can become relevant when a viral infection has so weakened the bodies defences, "secondary" bacterial infections can more easily take off, and cause serious health issues. In those circumstances doctors are willing to prescribe antibiotics, helping the patient fight the secondary infection, whilst the body thus relieved, get around to fighting off the viral infection that started the bout of illness.
Hence an antibiotic prescription can assist you whilst your body is dealing with multiple infections, including viral infections, (though not directly, as I've acknowledged). I hope I haven't contradicted anyone, and assumed a lack of knowledgeknowledge that doesn't exist, or made too simp!istic an argument here(?).
Treacle
Senior Member
- Location
- Swindon Wiltshire UK
On the BBC news it said Coronavirus tests could be picking up fragments of dead viruses from old infections. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54000629?at_campaign=64&at_custom4=0E3C5ADC-EF4D-11EA-BBDB-F8D596E8478F&at_custom3=BBC+News&at_custom2=facebook_page&at_medium=custom7&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&fbclid=IwAR3neUXGMX5BXvrZyc2fepdsvhqoGXPSxVIDesdHQmuSZcbwWXnBeVXKTJg&fbclid=IwAR0D6Evn5UXdt1iAP35dHpmECJzyxApqNKwwYEYJKjbuQC7yi38Eh476UCk&fbclid=IwAR3dhlBkKqKIfCAWRfc2Z-fPRIC-o9PeRCHNILr7FjRKxwu8xygmWtJCxmk
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
I see, .......in the words of Ray Stevens, (in the song "They call him the streak!"),
"TOO LATE ETHEL
"!
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Nathan
SF VIP
- Location
- High Desert- Calif.
LOL, I see you are from L.A. you are truly a brave person to even be a pedestrian, much less a jaywalking one! You won't get caught, the cops will be stuck in traffic.
