Self fulfilling prophecies, everyone familiar with these?

mellowyellow said:
I don't believe in it, sounds like something a psychologist would say, just words that don't mean anything.

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Those darn psychologists get everywhere don't they, turn your back and another one pops up with a crackpot theory, you'd wonder why universities fund their education wouldn't you, all totally meaningless, but unfortunately my prophesy has to be they'll never give up stating "self fulfilling prophesies" are a thing, (to use that awful expression!).:)
 

mellowyellow said:
I don't believe in it, sounds like something a psychologist would say, just words that don't mean anything.

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Might be a good idea to know your “ologists” before making blanket statements and being a psychologist, I cannot let this pass without commenting.

Psychologists study the emotions and thought processes of individuals to determine patterns. They may focus on clinical psychology, treating patients with emotional or mental disorders and do research into brain function and the behaviour of individual patients. They have to have a licence to practice.

Sociologists on the other hand are more interested in understanding the behaviour of groups of people. They attempt to analyse the social behaviours within the group.

There is a difference between the two professions. The term 'self-fulfilling prophecy' (SFP) was coined in 1948 by Robert K. Merton to describe 'a false definition of the situation evoking a new behaviour which makes the originally false conception come true'.
 
grahamg said:
Those darn psychologists get everywhere don't they, turn your back and another one pops up with a crackpot theory, you'd wonder why universities fund their education wouldn't you, all totally meaningless, but unfortunately my prophesy has to be they'll never give up stating "self fulfilling prophesies" are a thing, (to use that awful expression!).:)
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Another asinine comment....see my reply to mellowyellow
 
chic said:
No. I believe stuff happens. Example. Eight years ago on my birthday, I was supposed to go to a birthday party my friends were having for ME. I was in a great mood. It was a beautiful day. Got into the car. It didn't start. 🙁 Called AAA. The guy came and couldn't fix the problem there so gave me a tow to my repair shop.

I called the hostess of my party to tell her what happened. The repairs took quite a while and I got hungry so went to a pizzeria across the street for a slice while I waited. Hours later I showed up at my party, exhausted. Everybody had eaten and I had nothing.

They day was a crashing disappointment. It wasn't negative thinking. I'd like to believe in the LOA ( law of attraction ) but I just can't because sometimes no matter how upbeat your thinking is, bad things happen. They just do.
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While reading your post, I was expecting you to say that something dreadful happened at the party and you had a lucky escape.
 
Sassycakes said:
Well, I guess that explains why I always got good marks in school. In grade school, I always was in an all-girl class and I went to an all Girls High School.;)
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Lara said:
When my daughter was young I would tell her that she was "the peacemaker of the family"(she really was). When she was older I again mentioned that she was the peacemaker of the family. She's the glue that holds us all together and a good example of living positively.

She said to me that she remembered me telling her that as a child and so always told herself she was a peacemaker. Wow...if I had just told all 4 of my kids that, and turned out to be a self-fulfilled prophecies for all, life would have been a breeze.

But I do believe it was in my one daughter's soul to be a peacemaker. It's a gift. They each have their own gifts.
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That sounds like brainwashing.
 
I have never met anyone who has had a successful visit to a psychologist, just empty words that don't mean a thing, they get paid for nothing.

Psychiatrists are medical doctors, psychologists are not.
Psychiatrists prescribe medication, psychologists can't.
Psychiatrists diagnose illness, manage treatment and provide a range of therapies for complex and serious mental illness.
Psychologists focus on providing psychotherapy (talk therapy) empty words that are not helpful.
 
mellowyellow said:
I have never met anyone who has had a successful visit to a psychologist, just empty words that don't mean a thing, they get paid for nothing.

Psychiatrists are medical doctors, psychologists are not.
Psychiatrists prescribe medication, psychologists can't.
Psychiatrists diagnose illness, manage treatment and provide a range of therapies for complex and serious mental illness.
Psychologists focus on providing psychotherapy (talk therapy) empty words that are not helpful.
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Of course you have met hundreds of patients to know that...my goodness. you must have a multitude of "friends." It might benefit you to know that physicians, psychologists and psychiatrists work in conjunction with each other. But I guess you may prefer to walk out of a psychiatrist's office with a wad of mind altering drugs. Just because a visit to a psychologist did not work for you, that does not mean it fails others. Good luck and goodbye.
 
Lara said:
When my daughter was young I would tell her that she was "the peacemaker of the family"(she really was). When she was older I again mentioned that she was the peacemaker of the family. She's the glue that holds us all together and a good example of living positively.

She said to me that she remembered me telling her that as a child and so always told herself she was a peacemaker. Wow...if I had just told all 4 of my kids that, and turned out to be a self-fulfilled prophecies for all, life would have been a breeze.

But I do believe it was in my one daughter's soul to be a peacemaker. It's a gift. They each have their own gifts.
Rosemarie said:
That sounds like brainwashing.
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Well it is very strange indeed that you could make the assumptions you're making about another's family, and my views are the complete opposite, simply based on our forum friends story which I read as being totally authentic, and not at all like "brainwashing", (I'm familiar enough with the manipulating techniques some people use that could be fairly described as brainwashing, and I believe my ex. was an expert in this).
 
grahamg said:
Those darn psychologists get everywhere don't they, turn your back and another one pops up with a crackpot theory, you'd wonder why universities fund their education wouldn't you, all totally meaningless, but unfortunately my prophesy has to be they'll never give up stating "self fulfilling prophesies" are a thing, (to use that awful expression!).:)

Dana said:
Another asinine comment....see my reply to mellowyellow
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You are very welcome, (you do understand irony dont you?)! :)
 
One day at age fifty something, I decided to (struggle and struggle) at writing salable sci fi e-story poems. Well this untaught writer managed to write two 40 line poems that were published. My mother and stepfather had me read them aloud to them and when I finished my mother said she liked one more so than the other, & my dear 'ol stepfather very sarcastically said, "Now I suppose you think you're a writer." (Gee, thanks for the compliment...).

Starting as a child, whenever I was given a negative comment about trying to do something not thought as something I could do, it would drive me to try. Before my parents death, I spent months and months trying to come up with a short Sci Fi fantasy story & finally wrote one that was published. I just wish my stepfather had known.
 
Elsie said:
One day at age fifty something, I decided to (struggle and struggle) at writing salable sci fi e-story poems. Well this untaught writer managed to write two 40 line poems that were published. My mother and stepfather had me read them aloud to them and when I finished my mother said she liked one more so than the other, & my dear 'ol stepfather very sarcastically said, "Now I suppose you think you're a writer." (Gee, thanks for the compliment...).

Starting as a child, whenever I was given a negative comment about trying to do something not thought as something I could do, it would drive me to try. Before my parents death, I spent months and months trying to come up with a short Sci Fi fantasy story & finally wrote one that was published. I just wish my stepfather had known.
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I can relate to that. It's always satisfying to see some know-all proved wrong. I had the opposite problem. My father was determined that I should have a professional career and, any time I showed an interest in anything, he took away the pleasure by hounding me to study and make it my ambition.
So, Parents out there, be very careful what you say to your children. Let them develop their own talents, don't impose your own wishes on them.
 
grahamg said:
"Any more of that and your end might be hastened"! :)
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Uh oh! o_O

It is one of the safest of self-fulfilled prophecies since, as far as I know, nobody has done otherwise.

If I said "I will be rich", it would not be self-fulfilling because:

1. My name isn't Rich.
2. My bank account doesn't reflect anything like being rich.

On the other hand, I could probably go back over my life and come up with something that was a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I honestly can't think of any at this time. It is an interesting thread though.

Tony
 
grahamg said:
"A self-fulfilling prophecy is a sociological term used to describe a prediction that causes itself to become true. Therefore, the process by which a person's expectations about someone can lead to that someone behaving in ways which confirm the expectations."
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Yep, so true and pretty evident, in my experience.
 
Dana said:
Of course you have met hundreds of patients to know that...my goodness. you must have a multitude of "friends." It might benefit you to know that physicians, psychologists and psychiatrists work in conjunction with each other. But I guess you may prefer to walk out of a psychiatrist's office with a wad of mind altering drugs. Just because a visit to a psychologist did not work for you, that does not mean it fails others. Good luck and goodbye.
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I've known numerous people who've benefited mightily from psychologists, myself included.

In my experience, therapy is similar to exercise and diets. None are easy processes, and people get out of them what they put into them. The psychologist serves as a highly skilled guide walking alongside throughout, but every patient has to climb his/her own mountain.
 
StarSong said:
I've known numerous people who've benefited mightily from psychologists, myself included.
In my experience, therapy is similar to exercise and diets. None are easy processes, and people get out of them what they put into them. The psychologist serves as a highly skilled guide walking alongside throughout, but every patient has to climb his/her own mountain.
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I did once work with a woman going through a breakdown of some kind, and receiving psychotherapy whilst off work sick. After a couple of weeks she told her therapist she thought she was okay again, but the therapist showed great insight when telling her it might be a good idea to carry on a little while longer. I don't know what signs she saw, but within a week my work colleague relapsed in a quite big way and certainly needed further help. However, once over this setback she did fully recover, and returned to a happy life with her children, and back to work too.
 
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StarSong said:
I've known numerous people who've benefited mightily from psychologists, myself included.

In my experience, therapy is similar to exercise and diets. None are easy processes, and people get out of them what they put into them. The psychologist serves as a highly skilled guide walking alongside throughout, but every patient has to climb his/her own mountain.
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Agreed. That's my experience as well. I recently suggested counseling to someone who had the comeback that "a shrink is a paid friend." I explained that from my experience, a good therapist is more like an emotional surgeon without anesthesia. Good work isn't fun.

As for the physical universe analogy, I've always loved Langston Hughes' Islands to describe good therapy.

Islands by Langston Hughes​
​
Wave of sorrow,​
Do not drown me now:​
​
I see the island​
Still ahead somehow.​
​
I see the island​
And its sands are fair:​
​
Wave of sorrow,​
Take me there.​
 
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StarSong said:
I've known numerous people who've benefited mightily from psychologists, myself included.

In my experience, therapy is similar to exercise and diets. None are easy processes, and people get out of them what they put into them. The psychologist serves as a highly skilled guide walking alongside throughout, but every patient has to climb his/her own mountain.
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Thank you for your post StarSong...the trouble is, many people want results, but are unwilling to do the hard work associated with it.

If one is not an empathic person, this is not the profession for you. It is not a quick fix...but it can result in long term results.
 
Dana said:
Might be a good idea to know your “ologists” before making blanket statements and being a psychologist, I cannot let this pass without commenting.

Psychologists study the emotions and thought processes of individuals to determine patterns. They may focus on clinical psychology, treating patients with emotional or mental disorders and do research into brain function and the behaviour of individual patients. They have to have a licence to practice.

Sociologists on the other hand are more interested in understanding the behaviour of groups of people. They attempt to analyse the social behaviours within the group.

There is a difference between the two professions. The term 'self-fulfilling prophecy' (SFP) was coined in 1948 by Robert K. Merton to describe 'a false definition of the situation evoking a new behaviour which makes the originally false conception come true'.
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We are indebted for this explanation btw, putting aside other matters, and although I started this thread I do struggle to try to think of the ways self fulfilling prophesies were made affecting my own life or shaping my future.

My brother told me I had a "converging personality" whilst he had a "diverging personality", but I suppose we're into psychology and sociology there, if my brothers words were accurate, and his views perhaps re-enforced by other family members, mostly our parents in the way they treated us differently, (my mother saying for example, "she didn't worry so much about my brother making sure he looked after his own interests as she did about me").

I had a very good friend I used to call my second mother, and all kinds of people used to rely on her, or go to her for advice and emotional support. I met her following a very difficult period in my life, and knew almost immediately this person was going to help me, (our friendship only being strained or broken ten or fifteen years later when she seemed to take her criticisms of the decisions I made over my contact with my daughter too far). She'd had a very difficult period in her life too, maybe explaining why she took such an interest in helping others. I think you'd have to describe her as a "diverging personality" if that term means anything to others, and she had many helpful insights or observations, gave lots of encouragement to myself and others, and her being so easy to speak to was great too of course, (especially as I found my own "first/real mum generally hard to talk to).

How she fitted into any possible self fulfilling prophesies in relation to her own three sons I'm unsure, but all became high fliers, especially her eldest son, who was the same age as myself, and he was one of the very top students at our secondary school. Maybe her positivity did play some part, and she was very convinced her being a stay at home mother helped the sons immeasurably.
 

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