It is every man for himself in this world,....!

horseless carriage said:
If that's the case then the UK wouldn't have an NHS. Every time that you have visited a doctor, been a hospital patient or needed surgery, every tax payer in the country has had to foot the bill. Of course, you can buck the system, there's plenty of private medical care companies only too willing to take your cash.
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Do you think my dad shouldn't have asserted life was every man for himself then, (soory if I'm being unduly stupid asking that question!)?
 

grahamg said:
John Donne said "No man is an Island, entire of itself, every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main,...", so this seems to contradict my fathers assertions doesn't it. :)
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No we dare not be alone in this culture. Oft quoted 400-year-old John Donne said so. Doesn't matter that he was ill when he wrote it and no doubt extremely depressed. Does being aware of another's pain really make you stronger and more able to live? Be honest. It depresses me, how about you? "...therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
 

grahamg said:
I liked the use of the word "thusly", (it his a word I hope?).
You'd have enjoyed a conversation with my good friend I'm sure, and got this business well and truly sorted perhaps, (she had a very fertile mind, and wrote moving poetry, so similar to my mother in that respect).
I must admit I find this "saying goodbye to those who are about to pass on a bit odd", (but its probably just me!).
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I checked just to make sure I was using a real word and a definition of thusly is "in this manner". Glad you enjoyed it. It might be a midwest term or just one my dad or parents picked up.

I would say that although some people's motivation for being with someone who is dying is to say goodbye, a lot of them tend to be there to give the person a loving environment by letting them know those who care for them are present and care about their situation.

I personally never know what to say or how to act in such situations. I had a last conversation with an uncle a few weeks ago and wasn't sure what to say about his situation or the future. It was over the phone so I only sounded awkward rather than looking awkward as well.
 
ohioboy said:
Every person needs help in their lives, period. You might live alone, no friends, an introvert, but no one is totally self reliant.
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There is only truth in your words, though just going back to my father for a moment, he prided himself on being self reliant I'm sure, and I've an anecdote to impart about his will power, but at the same time he and his many farming friends and associates formed a very strong and supportive network too, and an uncle did much to assist him as a young man as a mentor etc.
My anecdote concerns my father aged eighteen years, shortly after he had met his future wife, (my mother of course). He found he could no longer shoot rabbits on his dads farm, "falling in love" let's say, had affected his ability to shoot straight. Anyway, this is where his will power came in, he decided this wasn't good enough, so he strove to overcome this, and it proved a temporary blip. This was important psychologically, and more important practically than we perhaps realise today, because wartime shortages of meat meant he could easily sell the rabbits he'd shot, and they made as much money as he received in wages whilst working a whole seven day week.
 
Keesha said:
You’re not being stupid asking any questions.
If human psychology is your personal interest, there’s nothing at all wrong with asking questions. No need to criticize yourself.
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If I say I'm being "stupid" no one should doubt it believe me, (and I think I was referring to missing an obvious point in a previous post).
 
asp3 said:
I checked just to make sure I was using a real word and a definition of thusly is "in this manner". Glad you enjoyed it. It might be a midwest term or just one my dad or parents picked up.
I would say that although some people's motivation for being with someone who is dying is to say goodbye, a lot of them tend to be there to give the person a loving environment by letting them know those who care for them are present and care about their situation.
I personally never know what to say or how to act in such situations. I had a last conversation with an uncle a few weeks ago and wasn't sure what to say about his situation or the future. It was over the phone so I only sounded awkward rather than looking awkward as well.
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"Thusly" does sound like a word Shakespeare might have used or coined doesn't it, so a fine word after all.
My guess is if I found myself at someone bed who was thought likely to expire soon, I'd pretend all was fine, so certainly no goodbyes from me, even if I knew I'd never see the person again.
 
Judycat said:
No we dare not be alone in this culture. Oft quoted 400-year-old John Donne said so. Doesn't matter that he was ill when he wrote it and no doubt extremely depressed. Does being aware of another's pain really make you stronger and more able to live? Be honest. It depresses me, how about you? "...therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
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Those last lines do sound depressing, but I never thought the author might have been depressed before.
 
horseless carriage said:
Your father's opinion is his, as your's is your own. I just don't see any correlation.
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I'm making a correlation or connection though, (can't understand why you think I shouldn't?).
My fathers many wise words and thoughts which he sought to impart, even words and sentiments he intended to give us as warning but didn't follow himself, I feel I should have listened to, and both he and my mothers insights into life assist me today I believe..
 
grahamg said:
This was important psychologically, and more important practically than we perhaps realise today, because wartime shortages of meat meant he could easily sell the rabbits he'd shot, and they made as much money as he received in wages whilst working a whole seven day week.
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I understand better after your explanation, perhaps give readers, like me, a clearer understanding to what you hope to learn or achieve from questions. 🤓
 
Mr. Ed said:
I understand better after your explanation, perhaps give readers, like me, a clearer understanding to what you hope to learn or achieve from questions. 🤓
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I, like grahamg, seem to ask more questions as I get older, not less, yet I see myself and others like me almost an anomaly. I am curious Mr. Ed if questions seem futile to you or uninteresting or why exactly do so many people our age seem to prefer to steer away from difficult questions? Certainly no one is under any obligation to answer questions or even entertain them if they don't care to, but I actually WANT to ask and seek answers to questions and I can't figure why I seem to be different in this regard to most my peers. I know you can only speak to this question as it regards to you, but your viewpoint is such a common one and I really don't understand it.
 
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I don't interpret the "every man for himself..." idea means isolation. I take it to mean every person should defend and protect what is his or hers. The life we choose is our responsibility and protecting the ones we love is part of that.
 
911 said:
I don't quite get your point as to why you continually ask human behavioral questions. I don't mean any disrespect, but I am curious.
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I love human behavior questions! Psychology was my first love and I have been fascinated with human behavior all my life. 911, I know you were not criticizing. I just wanted it out there to encourage more questions like this... :)
 
fmdog44 said:
I don't interpret the "every man for himself..." idea means isolation. I take it to mean every person should defend and protect what is his or hers. The life we choose is our responsibility and protecting the ones we love is part of that.
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A strong interpretation and one I'd guess my father would have heartily agreed with, even if he was full of contradictions. Another of his sayings being "A wise man changes his mind often,...", so he had a perfect excuse if he'd made a mistake sometimes, whatever the truth of this saying, and were he in two minds (or indecisive occasionally, as I find myself quite often!).
 
Serenity4321 said:
I love human behavior questions! Psychology was my first love and I have been fascinated with human behavior all my life. 911, I know you were not criticizing. I just wanted it out there to encourage more questions like this... :)
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I once had my handwriting analysed by someone who had been called in by the police on a few occasions to examine the handwriting of people in difficult cases. Fortunately she gave a very complimentary assessment of my character from the piece of fiction I'd written on a couple of pages of A4 paper.
She did comment upon my need to be understood, and I think I can acknowledge she hit the nail on the head there, (besides my earlier suggested reasons for starting threads similar to this one).
 
LSWOTE said:
I like grahamg, seem to ask more questions as I get older, not less, yet I see myself and others like me almost an anomaly. I am curious Mr. Ed if questions seem futile to you or uninteresting or why exactly do so many people our age seem to prefer to steer away from difficult questions? Certainly no one is under any obligation to answer questions or even entertain them if they don't care to, but I actually WANT to ask and seek answers to questions and I can't figure why I seem to be different in this regard to most my peers. I know you can only speak to this question as it regards to you, but your viewpoint is such a common one and I really don't understand it.
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It has to be right to try to take stock of your life as you get older, and along with that process questions will be thrown up won't they.
 
grahamg I think both your father and Donne are correct depending on what topic/idea is being addressed.....


English metaphysical poet John Donne (1572-1631).
I love this...

No man is an island entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.

If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less,
As well as if a promontory were,
As well as any manor of thy friend's,
Or of thine own were.

Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
 
grahamg said:
A strong interpretation and one I'd guess my father would have heartily agreed with, even if he was full of contradictions. Another of his sayings being "A wise man changes his mind often,...", so he had a perfect excuse if he'd made a mistake sometimes, whatever the truth of this saying, and were he in two minds (or indecisive occasionally, as I find myself quite often!).
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Upon being accused of and criticized for inconsistency when shifting his views and recommendations on monetary policy, Depression-era economist John Maynard Keynes came back with the reply, “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”
 
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