CDC Confirms That Viral Loads In Vaccinated People With Delta May Be Infectious, So Masks Are Necessary

Becky1951

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The Centers for Disease Control reversed course Monday and said it now recommends indoor masks for the vaccinated in all areas of the country where COVID infections are surging. CDC director Dr. Rochelle Walensky cited unpublished data from recent days suggesting that vaccinated people may be able to spread the Delta variant just as easily as unvaccinated people.

We're back in a phase of constantly shifting information and data — and just last week we had experts casting doubt on whether vaccinated and mildly symptomatic or asymptomatic cases should be counted as "breakthrough" cases, and others casting doubt on whether vaccinated people could spread the virus easily.

But as was expected, the CDC changed its tune about masking on Tuesday, recommending that vaccinated people resume wearing masks in crowded indoor settings. And, it should be noted, that while outdoor gatherings are still being considered safe, some experts are also now casting doubt on whether that's still true with the Delta variant. Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding, one of the world's leading epidemiologists, pointed to some recent outdoor "fleeting" transmission cases in Australia that appeared to happen without any close contact between individuals.

As the Associated Press notes, Walensky cited data from the last few days, still unpublished, taken from 100 samples from vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with COVID infections. They found that the amount of virus in the noses and throats of vaccinated infected people was nearly "indistinguishable" from what was found in unvaccinated people, confirming what some experts have suspected. The increased viral load associated with the Delta variant appears to make vaccinated people equal spreaders of the virus. Walensky said that the data was "concerning enough that we feel like we have to act."

Infections in vaccinated people are still vastly less severe than those among the unvaccinated, and the overwhelming number of hospitalizations and deaths are happening among the unvaccinated. But new evidence is enough to make the vaccinated feel less secure about what happens if they're exposed to the Delta variant.

Last week, UCSF infectious disease expert Dr. Monica Gandhi tried to quell fears about infections in the vaccinated population, saying that some of these mild and asymptomatic cases could be turning up "dead viral particles in your nose" that trigger positive tests. And she questioned whether those cases are as worrisome or as noteworthy, public-health-wise, as those in unvaccinated people.

Gandhi also previously cautioned that the renewed hysteria among epidemiologists was reminiscent of the AIDS pandemic, and it took time to come up with mitigation measures that were less driven by panic. "The way that scientists are talking now was how scientists were talking at the beginning of the HIV epidemic," Gandhi said speaking to Slate. "It took some time, and everyone was scared and screaming, just like we are now, at the beginning of the HIV epidemic." *

Gandhi contributed to this piece today in the Washington Post, trying to parse the yo-yo guidance. "To get through this next stage of the pandemic as safely as possible, we’ll need to know when we can lift restrictions without sparking new surges. Fortunately, if we pay attention to some key metrics, we can figure that out," the authors write. They add that new mask guidance is about returning to an "acceptable" level of hospitalization and death, similar to the seasonal flu. "All pandemics end," Gandhi and her colleagues say. "The question is, how do we know when they do? These metrics will help us know when to begin to lift restrictions and get on track to a new normal."

So, again, we're in a place of wondering who to believe.

Speaking at a White House press conference today, Press Secretary Jen Psaki said that CDC continues doing what it is is supposed to do as data and the need for new guidance changes. "That is their job," she said. "Their job is to look at evolving information, evolving data, an evolving historic pandemic and provide guidance to the American public." She reiterated that being vaccinated remains the best protection against the virus.

As for whether San Francisco is considered a high-transmission area by the CDC right now, it is. According to the CDC's tracker, Alameda, Contra Costa, San Francisco and Solano counties are all areas of high transmission, while the rest of the Bay Area is in the "substantial transmission" category.

One more worry: For the last two days on Twitter, Dr. Feigl-Ding has been stressing studies out of England that suggest that COVID-19 infections appear to cause cognitive declines even among those who have mild or even asymptomatic cases — though the cognitive declines were sharper among those who were hospitalized with severe cases.

"Folks — gonna level with you — I would not want this for myself or anyone I know," Feigl-Ding said. "Death is not the only bad outcome of #COVID19 — even if we survive, there are huge chronic consequences... Avoid infection not just hospitalization!"

Furthermore, in today's new CDC guidance, they are now recommending masks for all teachers, staff, students, and visitors to schools, regardless of vaccination status.

https://sfist.com/2021/07/27/cdc-co...elta-are-indistinguishable-from-unvaccinated/
 

"People get ready, there's a train a comin'" You either move out of the way ( wear a mask ) or reap what you sow. This is a tsunami in the making, world wide.

"A reed that does not bend in the wind will break". The stubbornness of not getting vaccinated will have dire consequences.
 

"People get ready, there's a train a comin'" You either move out of the way ( wear a mask ) or reap what you sow. This is a tsunami in the making, world wide.

"A reed that does not bend in the wind will break". The stubbornness of not getting vaccinated will have dire consequences.
What happens to people who cannot be fully vaccinated due to medical conditions? Do we erect concentration camps for such? What about natives in the Amazon rain forest? How will they be vaccinated or people in third world countries without the financial resources to vaccinate an entire population?

Mass vaccination is not even practical. And why aren't we tripping over the corpses of America's homeless population on a daily basis? We're not. And that is a fact.

Respectfully, your post sounds like a lot of fear mongering.
 
The only thing I'm seeing/hearing is that the delta variant drops off pretty quick. My thing is with flu, mediocre vax and efficacy rates they seem to cycle through society most seasons without mutating. Yes people pass of flu related symptoms but it goes through society and seems to be over with or manageable.

Meaning they probably over managed covid which allowed to linger and/or mutate. If a natural mutation is what happened. Did something else 'escape' and was here all along.
 
As a person who did all the right things (stayed at home, avoided crowds if I neede to go out, canceled family plans, tried to live life with a bubble of safe people, did outside grocery pickup, wore a mask, and got vaccinated) I am beginning to resent what is going on.

First, it's time for the government to realize that corona virus will be with us for many years. Thus it is no longer an emergency, but a public health issue that must be managed like the flu, measles, whooping cough, etc.

Second, it's hard to see how this new recommendation is fair to those who have been vaccinated and done all the right things for a year and a half.

Masks, social distancing etc. were supposed to be temporary measures until a vaccine or an easy simple medical treatment could be found to prevent the serious effects of the disease. Do you remember two weeks to crush the curve? We now have a way to greatly limit the worst effects of this disease. People who have taken advantage of it should not be punished. Will the anti-vaccine crowd change their minds when they see their friends and families masked up? Will those who willfully mislead others stop? Will foreign agents who sow mistrust and suspicion on social media to divide our country take a break? No, no, and no.

The only exceptions to above are those who through no fault of their own can't get vaccinated or the vaccine does not work well for them; such as those with serious comorbidities, impaired immune systems and possibly children under 12. I will gladly wear a mask to help take care around them.

But, the rest of the non immunized? They invited the monkey to climb on their backs. It's not my monkey. And it's not my zoo. I have no ill will towards these people. But, now it's all on them. Good luck.
 
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As a person who did all the right things (stayed at home, avoided crowds if I neede to go out, canceled family plans, tried to live life with a bubble of safe people, did outside grocery pickup, wore a mask, and got vaccinated) I am begging to resent what is going on.

First, it's time for the government to realize that corona virus will be with us for many years. Thus it is no longer an emergency, but a public health issue that must be managed like the flu, measles, whooping cough, etc.

Second, it's hard to see how this new recommendation is fair to those who have been vaccinated and done all the right things for a year and a half.

Masks, social distancing etc. were supposed to be temporary measures until a vaccine or an easy simple medical treatment could be found to prevent the serious effects of the disease. Do you remember two weeks to crush the curve? We now have a way to greatly limit the worst effects of this disease. People who have taken advantage of it should not be punished. Will the anti-vaccine crowd change their minds when they see their friends and families masked up? Will those who willfully mislead others stop? Will foreign agents who sow mistrust and suspicion on social media to divide our country take a break? No, no, and no.

The only exceptions to above are those who through no fault of their own can't get vaccinated or the vaccine does not work well for them; such as those with serious comorbidities, impaired immune systems and possibly children under 12. I will gladly wear a mask to help take care around them.

But, the rest of the non immunized? They invited the monkey to climb on their backs. It's not my monkey. And it's not my zoo. I have no ill will towards these people. But, now it's all on them. Good luck.
I remember that also. I remember "Four weeks to flatten the curve." No one mentions this anymore a year and a half later....

But I do not blame anyone for their choices during this unparalleled time.

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As a person who did all the right things (stayed at home, avoided crowds if I neede to go out, canceled family plans, tried to live life with a bubble of safe people, did outside grocery pickup, wore a mask, and got vaccinated) I am beginning to resent what is going on.

First, it's time for the government to realize that corona virus will be with us for many years. Thus it is no longer an emergency, but a public health issue that must be managed like the flu, measles, whooping cough, etc.

Second, it's hard to see how this new recommendation is fair to those who have been vaccinated and done all the right things for a year and a half.

Masks, social distancing etc. were supposed to be temporary measures until a vaccine or an easy simple medical treatment could be found to prevent the serious effects of the disease. Do you remember two weeks to crush the curve? We now have a way to greatly limit the worst effects of this disease. People who have taken advantage of it should not be punished. Will the anti-vaccine crowd change their minds when they see their friends and families masked up? Will those who willfully mislead others stop? Will foreign agents who sow mistrust and suspicion on social media to divide our country take a break? No, no, and no.

The only exceptions to above are those who through no fault of their own can't get vaccinated or the vaccine does not work well for them; such as those with serious comorbidities, impaired immune systems and possibly children under 12. I will gladly wear a mask to help take care around them.

But, the rest of the non immunized? They invited the monkey to climb on their backs. It's not my monkey. And it's not my zoo. I have no ill will towards these people. But, now it's all on them. Good luck.
It's not just the unvaccinated spreading Covid, the vaccinated are too. The vaccine isn't the bullet proof vest it was thought to be anymore. Vaccinated people are being hospitalized and dying also.

I agree it doesn't seem fair that vaccinated people now have to wear masks, but if they can spread it and cause serious and possibly death to others, vaccinated or not, then it's the sensible thing to do.
 
But I do not blame anyone for their choices during this unparalleled time.
I don't blame them. I simply do not want to pay the price for their choice. If they're right or lucky or whatever they will be fine. Great! If they're wrong or unlucky or whatever they may get very sick, perhaps die. Very sad. It's on them. Just leave me out of it.
 
I wear my mask everywhere and get reinforcement with that idea every day I watch the news. I think if hospitals would demand payment up front many of the disillusioned fools would get the shot because few can afford to pay bills for extended hospital stays much less intensive care.
 
It's not just the unvaccinated spreading Covid, the vaccinated are too. The vaccine isn't the bullet proof vest it was thought to be anymore. Vaccinated people are being hospitalized and dying also.

I agree it doesn't seem fair that vaccinated people now have to wear masks, but if they can spread it and cause serious and possibly death to others, vaccinated or not, then it's the sensible thing to do.
I take issue with your rather negative view on the vaccines. Nobody I know has ever considered the vaccine a bullet proof vest. That is a straw man argument.

While they are not perfect, the vaccines are still very highly effective in preventing serous illness and death. It is highly unlikely that a vaccinated person will pass on the virus to another vaccinated person and that other person will get seriously ill, and even less likely they will die. Vaccines are not perfect but nothing is. Never let perfection become the enemy of the good.

Besides I am not talking about vaccinated people, but those who are willfully not vaccinated. I am being asked to take actions to protect people who won't take action to protect themselves. And this is after I have spent well over a year limiting my own life to protect myself and others. Now I am supposed to enable what is a poor decision on their part? Enough!
 
I take issue with your rather negative view on the vaccines. Nobody I know has ever considered the vaccine a bullet proof vest. That is a straw man argument.

While they are not perfect, the vaccines are still very highly effective in preventing serous illness and death. It is highly unlikely that a vaccinated person will pass on the virus to another vaccinated person and that other person will get seriously ill, and even less likely they will die. Vaccines are not perfect but nothing is. Never let perfection become the enemy of the good.

Besides I am not talking about vaccinated people, but those who are willfully not vaccinated. I am being asked to take actions to protect people who won't take action to protect themselves. And this is after I have spent well over a year limiting my own life to protect myself and others. Now I am supposed to enable what is a poor decision on their part? Enough!
But some people are "willfully not vaccinated" because it would be physically dangerous for them to receive the vaccine, yet they are tarred with the same brush by the vaccinated. It's all the fault of the unvaccinated! It isn't. I think this vaccine is a fail and no one has the courage to admit this and fix the problem before proceeding to vaccinate the world's population which is what vaccinated people want.
 
I take issue with your rather negative view on the vaccines. Nobody I know has ever considered the vaccine a bullet proof vest. That is a straw man argument.

While they are not perfect, the vaccines are still very highly effective in preventing serous illness and death. It is highly unlikely that a vaccinated person will pass on the virus to another vaccinated person and that other person will get seriously ill, and even less likely they will die. Vaccines are not perfect but nothing is. Never let perfection become the enemy of the good.

Besides I am not talking about vaccinated people, but those who are willfully not vaccinated. I am being asked to take actions to protect people who won't take action to protect themselves. And this is after I have spent well over a year limiting my own life to protect myself and others. Now I am supposed to enable what is a poor decision on their part? Enough!
A lot of people felt that being vaccinated gave them a type of shield against being infected. Given the statistics of effectiveness of the vaccine. Now even the vaccinated are being infected, in Tennessee alone there were 127 fully vaccinated who had the virus bad enough to be hospitalized and 27 of them died.

And today I read that 370 breakthrough cases and 3 more deaths of fully vaccinated in Nashville TN.

https://fox17.com/news/local/3-deaths-among-davidson-countys-370-breakthrough-covid-19-cases-metro-health-coronavirus-tennessee-nashville-vaccination

That's just one state so far, there have been others. Numbers may be small yet, but they are adding up.

I believe its a personal choice, vaccinate or not. But I hope vaccinated realize they are also in danger of being infected and not assume they are fully protected.
 
So, let me be clear on this subject. The CDC, who is now walking back on their original opinion of no masks needed if fully vaccinated, but now wants us to start wearing masks, even if we are fully vaccinated. So, does that mean the vaccines are not working? It wasn't too long ago that the CDC said we could stop wearing a mask if we were fully vaccinated as did the Cleveland Clinic, which also stated that natural immunity is better than vaccines. Well, I had both, COVID and the vaccines and my doctors told me that I cannot again be infected and I cannot carry the Virus and infect someone else. Who to believe? This all sounds again familiar and political and is being used to control us. They (the government) say "Jump" and we say "How high?"

I give up.
 
A lot of people felt that being vaccinated gave them a type of shield against being infected. Given the statistics of effectiveness of the vaccine. Now even the vaccinated are being infected, in Tennessee alone there were 127 fully vaccinated who had the virus bad enough to be hospitalized and 27 of them died.

And today I read that 370 breakthrough cases and 3 more deaths of fully vaccinated in Nashville TN.

https://fox17.com/news/local/3-deaths-among-davidson-countys-370-breakthrough-covid-19-cases-metro-health-coronavirus-tennessee-nashville-vaccination

That's just one state so far, there have been others. Numbers may be small yet, but they are adding up.

I believe its a personal choice, vaccinate or not. But I hope vaccinated realize they are also in danger of being infected and not assume they are fully protected.
BTW, isn't Tennessee one of the states where a large amount of illegals were sent? The illegals walking into our country are untested and unvaccinated. Gee, do you think maybe, just maybe, these people are spreading the Virus?
 
Who's spreading more delta, vaccinated or unvaccinated? I read that in Israel, it's the latter. If true, wouldn't that be ironic.
I really am having a hard time understanding why the U.S. is allowing the free-flowing of illegals into our country without being tested or vaccinated and then transporting these illegals to other states in masses. Now, over 1.5 million have entered illegally and yet not one single politician has done anything to stop the surge at the border. Didn't we elect these bums to protect us as part of their job? What in the name God is going on here? Have we all gone nuts?
 
But some people are "willfully not vaccinated" because it would be physically dangerous for them to receive the vaccine, yet they are tarred with the same brush by the vaccinated. It's all the fault of the unvaccinated! It isn't. I think this vaccine is a fail and no one has the courage to admit this and fix the problem before proceeding to vaccinate the world's population which is what vaccinated people want.
If you read my entire message I carved out exceptions for people who have valid medical reasons for not being vaccinated. I am sorry if I did not make that clear enough when I wrote this:

"The only exceptions to above are those who through no fault of their own can't get vaccinated or the vaccine does not work well for them; such as those with serious comorbidities, impaired immune systems and possibly children under 12."

As far as the vaccine being a 'fail' I will have to disagree with you. The statistics show it is an overwhelming success. Perfect? No. A huge success for most people? Yes.

A relative works in a local hospital Covid ward. Before the vaccine they had to open additional wards to handle the patient load. Today the load is much much lower and I believe they only have one Covid ward open at the most with room for other patients if needed. The drop in Covid patients started in February after the vaccine started to become generally available to older folks and has continued to be far lower than before vaccinations became available. Well over 90% of people currently in my county's Covid wards are non vaccinated people, yet they make up less than half of the age 18+ population. Vaccinated people rarely end up in the hospital even though they are a majority in my county. That does not sound like a 'fail' to me.
 
BTW, isn't Tennessee one of the states where a large amount of illegals were sent? The illegals walking into our country are untested and unvaccinated. Gee, do you think maybe, just maybe, these people are spreading the Virus?
I have no idea where illegals were sent, but we can't blame everything on illegals.
 
I really am having a hard time understanding why the U.S. is allowing the free-flowing of illegals into our country without being tested or vaccinated and then transporting these illegals to other states in masses. Now, over 1.5 million have entered illegally and yet not one single politician has done anything to stop the surge at the border. Didn't we elect these bums to protect us as part of their job? What in the name God is going on here? Have we all gone nuts?

I have no idea where illegals were sent, but we can't blame everything on illegals.
I think the writer is wondering why an American citizen flying into his home country needs a passport and a negative Covid test, but people sneaking across the Southern boarder seem to get a pass on these requirements. But, it;s a valid concern. The same government that wants us all to get vaccinated, somehow ignores the huge gap in Covid testing and vaccination on the Southern boarder. Not so good.
A lot of people felt that being vaccinated gave them a type of shield against being infected. Given the statistics of effectiveness of the vaccine. Now even the vaccinated are being infected, in Tennessee alone there were 127 fully vaccinated who had the virus bad enough to be hospitalized and 27 of them died.

And today I read that 370 breakthrough cases and 3 more deaths of fully vaccinated in Nashville TN.
While the vaccines are very effective they are not perfect protection. Of course, neither are the seat belts in my car, but I still wear them. Never let the perfect become the enemy of the good.
 

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