What are the reasons some do not wear masks or will not be vaccinated?

[Becky1951]

"But the question is...
Having established the fact that more unvaccinated people die, between anti and pro, who's reality will get them in trouble?"

At this time the unvaccinated. So do we rush into the homes of the unvaccinated and forcibly vaccinate them against their will? Do we hide all negative vaccine information in hopes they will get vaccinated? If someone does not want to be vaccinated that is their right to choose. I don't have an answer to stop Covid, although I don't believe it will go away even with everyone being vaccinated. Not with the current vaccines anyway.

Is having doubts about the vaccine cause to label a person anti? I have had every vaccine suggested in my 70 years. I wanted to be vaccinated with the J&J one then they had clotting issues. Then My Dr didn't feel comfortable with my being vaccinate with any of them. So you see, not every one is anti who hasn't been vaccinated.

 

[win231]

"But the question is...
Having established the fact that more unvaccinated people die, between anti and pro, who's reality will get them in trouble?"

At this time the unvaccinated. So do we rush into the homes of the unvaccinated and forcibly vaccinate them against their will? Do we hide all negative vaccine information in hopes they will get vaccinated? If someone does not want to be vaccinated that is their right to choose. I don't have an answer to stop Covid, although I don't believe it will go away even with everyone being vaccinated. Not with the current vaccines anyway.

Is having doubts about the vaccine cause to label a person anti? I have had every vaccine suggested in my 70 years. I wanted to be vaccinated with the J&J one then they had clotting issues. Then My Dr didn't feel comfortable with my being vaccinate with any of them. So you see, not every one is anti who hasn't been vaccinated.

Labeling someone who doesn't want the vaccine "Antivaxxer" is an ignorant person's way of trying to feel superior.
All put-down artists do this; it's the only way they can feel good about themselves. They actually have low self esteem.

 

[Aneeda72]

Labeling someone who doesn't want the vaccine "Antivaxxer" is an ignorant person's way of trying to feel superior.
All put-down artists do this; it's the only way they can feel good about themselves. They actually have low self esteem.

What the heck are you talking about? The two of you?

Who was it on the forum who recently said it was the people who received the vaccines that labeled the people who did not get the vaccines as ignorant and other names? . There was also a discussion about only discussing the issues, and not calling people other names for their stance on the issues. If only my memory was better, I could point you to those discussions.

Yet, there you go. @win231 “Put down artists, ignorant people“ and @Becky1951 dramatics “do we rush into the homes of the unvaccinated and forcibly vaccinate them against their will?” When will it ever stop? This silliness. People are DYING.

Seems it is the not vaccinated who push against the vaccinated, to me.

The vaccinated do not put the not vaccinated at risk. The not vaccinated put everyone at risk unless they stay at home, avoid other people, and wear the appropriate mask when it is necessary for them to go out on public. How about the two of you discuss that issue?

The issue of how the not vaccinated can keep other people safe, not themselves safe, other people safe from them. How about the not vaccinated stop being dramatic about how many vaccinated people have died from the virus since the vaccinated people caught the virus from the non vaccinated-and acknowledge that they are partly responsible for the sickness and deaths?

How about the non vaccinated acknowledge that they are partly responsible for the surge of the virus in various states, the sickness of men, woman, and children; and the many deaths of the same. How about @win231 and @Becky1951 discuss the drama of this situation instead of the continued never-ending discussion of long term side effects of the vaccine.

Have you noticed that one of the short term side effects of the virus is death?

 

[Becky1951]

What the heck are you talking about? The two of you?

Who was it on the forum who recently said it was the people who received the vaccines that labeled the people who did not get the vaccines as ignorant and other names? . There was also a discussion about only discussing the issues, and not calling people other names for their stance on the issues. If only my memory was better, I could point you to those discussions.

Yet, there you go. @win231 “Put down artists, ignorant people“ and @Becky1951 dramatics “do we rush into the homes of the unvaccinated and forcibly vaccinate them against their will?” When will it ever stop? This silliness. People are DYING.

Seems it is the not vaccinated who push against the vaccinated, to me.

The vaccinated do not put the not vaccinated at risk. The not vaccinated put everyone at risk unless they stay at home, avoid other people, and wear the appropriate mask when it is necessary for them to go out on public. How about the two of you discuss that issue?

The issue of how the not vaccinated can keep other people safe, not themselves safe, other people safe from them. How about the not vaccinated stop being dramatic about how many vaccinated people have died from the virus since the vaccinated people caught the virus from the non vaccinated-and acknowledge that they are partly responsible for the sickness and deaths?

How about the non vaccinated acknowledge that they are partly responsible for the surge of the virus in various states, the sickness of men, woman, and children; and the many deaths of the same. How about @win231 and @Becky1951 discuss the drama of this situation instead of the continued never-ending discussion of long term side effects of the vaccine.

Have you noticed that one of the short term side effects of the virus is death?

"@Becky1951 dramatics “do we rush into the homes of the unvaccinated and forcibly vaccinate them against their will?”"

Not dramatics. There is a push to mandate the vaccines. If that happens and some refuse, what happens next?

I didn't call anyone a name so I'm not sure what your talking about.

 

[Aneeda72]

"@Becky1951 dramatics “do we rush into the homes of the unvaccinated and forcibly vaccinate them against their will?”"

Not dramatics. There is a push to mandate the vaccines. If that happens and some refuse, what happens next?

I didn't call anyone a name so I'm not sure what your talking about.

I was talking about how I feel that you use drama to attempt to put your point across-no one is going to push into anyone’s house to vaccinate anyone. Suggesting such a thing is using drama and it also tries to push people into a certain level of panic. The panic thing has already been discussed.

 

[Becky1951]

I will leave you all to the Covid discussions, its apparent my opinion, views on this subject are not welcome here. Apparently I cause stress and panic, and post Covid related articles with information that members dislike. I don't understand why mine and a few others concerns about the vaccines serious side effects such as death and the breakthrough deaths are criticized so harshly by some, as those 2 topics are facts, they are happening. Have a wonderful day. I know some of you will be jumping for joy now, please remember your seniors and don't dislocate something.

 

[Aneeda72]

I will leave you all to the Covid discussions, its apparent my opinion, views on this subject are not welcome here. Apparently I cause stress and panic, and post Covid related articles with information that members dislike. I don't understand why mine and a few others concerns about the vaccines serious side effects such as death and the breakthrough deaths are criticized so harshly by some, as those 2 topics are facts, they are happening. Have a wonderful day. I know some of you will be jumping for joy now, please remember your seniors and don't dislocate something.

No one is jumping for joy as far as I know.

As you know your opinions are welcome. We all like you. Post what you want. I don’t think you were personally criticized for your opinions, although you may feel you were. If I added to that feeling, I apologize. @Becky1951

Besides, I see you already started another Covid thread , so apparently you are not leaving the Covid discussions behind. I just think less attention getting drama would be better. But if you like writing about Covid related discussions, then you go girl. People are free to read them or not-as you said.

 

[win231]

I will leave you all to the Covid discussions, its apparent my opinion, views on this subject are not welcome here. Apparently I cause stress and panic, and post Covid related articles with information that members dislike. I don't understand why mine and a few others concerns about the vaccines serious side effects such as death and the breakthrough deaths are criticized so harshly by some, as those 2 topics are facts, they are happening. Have a wonderful day. I know some of you will be jumping for joy now, please remember your seniors and don't dislocate something.

You should continue posting ALL Covid & Vaccine information. It helps people make an informed choice - which is not what the "Experts" want. There will always be people who won't like an opinion that's different from theirs. It shouldn't deter you; people like to feel confident in their decision & their confidence in this vaccine is already shaky to begin with. We still need BOTH sides of the story & we're not getting both sides from those who profit from the vaccine.

 

[hollydolly]

I will leave you all to the Covid discussions, its apparent my opinion, views on this subject are not welcome here. Apparently I cause stress and panic, and post Covid related articles with information that members dislike. I don't understand why mine and a few others concerns about the vaccines serious side effects such as death and the breakthrough deaths are criticized so harshly by some, as those 2 topics are facts, they are happening. Have a wonderful day. I know some of you will be jumping for joy now, please remember your seniors and don't dislocate something.

You don't cause stress and panic to me.... I'm sure I'm grown enough to know whether an opinion or stated facts on a forum..are going to scare the beejezus out of me.. ,

 

[Becky1951]

No one is jumping for joy as far as I know.

As you know your opinions are welcome. We all like you. Post what you want. I don’t think you were personally criticized for your opinions, although you may feel you were. If I added to that feeling, I apologize. @Becky1951

Besides, I see you already started another Covid thread , so apparently you are not leaving the Covid discussions behind. I just think less attention getting drama would be better. But if you like writing about Covid related discussions, then you go girl. People are free to read them or not-as you said.

"Besides, I see you already started another Covid thread"

That was posted yesterday or early this am, not after I posted here.

"No one is jumping for joy as far as I know."

Give it time.

Thank you for your kind words Aneeda. Much appreciated.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

You should continue posting ALL Covid & Vaccine information. It helps people make an informed choice - which is not what the "Experts" want. There will always be people who won't like an opinion that's different from theirs. It shouldn't deter you; people like to feel confident in their decision & their confidence in this vaccine is already shaky to begin with. We still need BOTH sides of the story & we're not getting both sides from those who profit from the vaccine.

Information is a wonderful and helpful thing to share. I couldn't agree more with that thought. But when misinformation or undocumented statements and ideas are presented or represented to be actual and or factual, that helps no one and only deepens these already muddy waters.

 

[win231]

Information is a wonderful and helpful thing to share. I couldn't agree more with that thought. But when misinformation or undocumented statements and ideas are presented or represented to be actual and or factual, that helps no one and only deepens these already muddy waters.

Just about every post I've seen (or posted myself) is accompanied by a link to the article or if that's not possible, copied & pasted. The article usually lists the source of the information & those reading it can decide for themselves if they consider it valid or not.
The problem is, people who choose to be vaccinated are troubled by any negative vaccine information & they express it with disrespect & insults. They're already frustrated at this situation, as we all are & they deal with their frustration poorly.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Just about every post I've seen (or posted myself) is accompanied by a link to the article or if that's not possible, copied & pasted. The article usually lists the source of the information & those reading it can decide for themselves if they consider it valid or not.
The problem is, people who choose to be vaccinated are troubled by any negative vaccine information & they express it with disrespect & insults. They're already frustrated at this situation, as we all are & they deal with their frustration poorly.

You use a very broad brush when you paint, me thinks. If all you're doing is spreading valid information, great, I applaud you.

 

[Aneeda72]

Just about every post I've seen (or posted myself) is accompanied by a link to the article or if that's not possible, copied & pasted. The article usually lists the source of the information & those reading it can decide for themselves if they consider it valid or not.
The problem is, people who choose to be vaccinated are troubled by any negative vaccine information & they express it with disrespect & insults. They're already frustrated at this situation, as we all are & they deal with their frustration poorly.

Well, I am not troubled by any negative vaccine information and I don’t think I have disrespected or insulted anyone but, if I have, apologies. I don’t read the articles. I am just not that interested as I have gotten 2 shots and will get the third as soon as I am allowed. My mind is made up .

What troubles me is, as I said, who are the vaccinated catching the virus from? The answer is, of course, the unvaccinated. The unvaccinated should accept this responsibility-the sickness and death of others. The inability of the human race to reach herd immunity.

Therefore, those not vaccinated should expect to be excluded the from whatever they can be excluded from. It is sad, to have to include the can not be vaccinated, in the excluded group, but life is not fair. Besides the can not be vaccinated should not expose themselves anyway.

If I have any side effects from the third shot-I will let you know.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Well, I am not troubled by any negative vaccine information and I don’t think I have disrespected or insulted anyone but, if I have, apologies. I don’t read the articles. I am just not that interested as I have gotten 2 shots and will get the third as soon as I am allowed. My mind is made up .

What troubles me is, as I said, who are the vaccinated catching the virus from? The answer is, of course, the unvaccinated. The unvaccinated should accept this responsibility-the sickness and death of others. The inability of the human race to reach herd immunity.

Therefore, those not vaccinated should expect to be excluded the from whatever they can be excluded from. It is sad, to have to include the can not be vaccinated, in the excluded group, but life is not fair. Besides the can not be vaccinated should not expose themselves anyway.

If I have any side effects from the third shot-I will let you know.

Hey now, let us know even if you DON'T have any side effects too. After all, all information should be shared, as long as it's based in fact! That's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it! Maybe your telling of living a happy life could help save someone else's.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

It was a very pleasant day here in the forums today. I wish every day and everyone was this kind. Thanks for making a better day, for me today. MUAH!

Jesus isn’t the only one who loves you! Stay safe, verify your facts!

 

[win231]

Well, I am not troubled by any negative vaccine information and I don’t think I have disrespected or insulted anyone but, if I have, apologies. I don’t read the articles. I am just not that interested as I have gotten 2 shots and will get the third as soon as I am allowed. My mind is made up .

What troubles me is, as I said, who are the vaccinated catching the virus from? The answer is, of course, the unvaccinated. The unvaccinated should accept this responsibility-the sickness and death of others. The inability of the human race to reach herd immunity.

Therefore, those not vaccinated should expect to be excluded the from whatever they can be excluded from. It is sad, to have to include the can not be vaccinated, in the excluded group, but life is not fair. Besides the can not be vaccinated should not expose themselves anyway.

If I have any side effects from the third shot-I will let you know.

Think about it: Much like the flu shot, if the shot worked, you COULDN'T get Covid from ANYONE - whether they were vaccinated or not. That's where the lack of trust in what we're being told comes from. Things that don't make sense, aren't true.

And, every time they say, "Masks and frequent testing are mandatory, even if you're vaccinated," that means, "We know the vaccine doesn't protect you or anyone else." Of course, they can't say that because no one would bother getting vaccinated.

 

[Jennina]

"But the question is...
Having established the fact that more unvaccinated people die, between anti and pro, who's reality will get them in trouble?"

At this time the unvaccinated. So do we rush into the homes of the unvaccinated and forcibly vaccinate them against their will? Do we hide all negative vaccine information in hopes they will get vaccinated? If someone does not want to be vaccinated that is their right to choose. I don't have an answer to stop Covid, although I don't believe it will go away even with everyone being vaccinated. Not with the current vaccines anyway.

Is having doubts about the vaccine cause to label a person anti? I have had every vaccine suggested in my 70 years. I wanted to be vaccinated with the J&J one then they had clotting issues. Then My Dr didn't feel comfortable with my being vaccinate with any of them. So you see, not every one is anti who hasn't been vaccinated.

I apologize if I caused you any stress. I didn't know you were sick. I was out of line and I didn't mean to be disrespectful. You're the same age as my aunt who's like a second mother to me. I'm backing off from our little debate.

I hope you continue to listen to your doctors, they know you best. Stay healthy and stay safe always.

 

[Jennina]

Labeling someone who doesn't want the vaccine "Antivaxxer" is an ignorant person's way of trying to feel superior.
All put-down artists do this; it's the only way they can feel good about themselves. They actually have low self esteem.

I'm taking the high road on this one cos I dont want us to sound like Beevus and Butthead. "You're stupid. No, you're stupid. No, you're stupider."

Im guessing "antivaxxer" is a term coined by the media. They call the other group pro vaxxers and no one seems to be offended. So what part of the term are you protesting? The prefix anti???? It means against.

For someone who appears to be combative, you are too thin-skinned, even getting offended by something non offensive.

How do you want us to call you, then? Anti-vaccinator so you can feel like a Marvel hero? I think antivaxxer is the more humane term because the other word coined by the media was covidiot.

PS For the record, you hurled the first insult.

 

[Butterfly]

Thank you for all the information.

I have read, and my own doctor says the opposite is true -- that there is no significant reduction in oxygenation from wearing masks. He said he tested the theory out on himself and there was no real change in his numbers. He did say that it could probably be true in patients with lung diseases where they are already struggling to breathe, but not in people with a healthy respiratory system.

 

[Butterfly]

I don't think lab techs wear the designer mask. I think they wear the blue mask where you can breathe...those are my favorite..the doctors wear those as well. The vaccines we got as children..we have no idea how they are effecting us as adults. There are soo many older adults with all sorts of health problems. Have not seen any medical records, therefore I cannot connect the dots and probably never will be able to. Bottom line "We don't know and the medical World don't have all the answers either. I respect doctors sooo much that say, "we don't know".

trying to blame the fact that older people have more health problems than younger ones on vaccinations is a bit disingenuous, to put it politely. Since the beginning of time older people have had more health problems than younger ones -- it is the nature of life and aging. The body wears out, just like anything else.

 

[Butterfly]

It was 1955. I doubt the involvement of many, if any, women. I used the ”fat man in the basement” as an analogy to something said by a political entity-now gone but not buried. . I was being sarcastic.

Computers can track the side effects of millions of people who have been vaccinated, world wide, to see what, if any, of those worrisome side effects of the vaccine are. As computers are tracking the know side effects of having Covid-19-as in “long haulers”. So far, the virus is winning in the long term side effect area.

and death is a VERY long term side effect of covid.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Think about it: Much like the flu shot, if the shot worked, you COULDN'T get Covid from ANYONE - whether they were vaccinated or not. That's where the lack of trust in what we're being told comes from. Things that don't make sense, aren't true.

And, every time they say, "Masks and frequent testing are mandatory, even if you're vaccinated," that means, "We know the vaccine doesn't protect you or anyone else." Of course, they can't say that because no one would bother getting vaccinated.

Actually, some things that don’t make sense ARE true, VERY true.

I don’t know but maybe you have heard of something called the placebo effect? It’s where an improvement in health happens, sometimes, when a person believes the “sugar pill” they take in a test trial is helping to treat them. That’s not an exact explanation but a simplified one. Doesn’t make sense but sense doesn’t make something true or not true. And I think that it’s already been determined that more unvaccinated people are causing the uptick in Covid cases than those who were vaccinated. I didn’t look it up today but that’s been the case, to the best of my knowledge, until now. Yes, some who are vaccinated do become infected or re-infected. Viruses can and do mutate into different strains. So a virus developed this week may not be as effective against next weeks mutated virus. But the fewer virus cases there are would seem to make elimination and eradication more likely. All or nothing thinking isn’t very helpful or at least doesn’t seem to be doing much to help stop the thread of the Covid virus. Vaccinations seem to have done much more.

And every time they say … Every is a strong word. And “We know the vaccine doesn’t protect you or anyone else.” It seems that new cases have diminished quite a bit since vaccinations began. Maybe vaccinations DO have some positive effect, even if it’s only a placebo one. Fewer people are being infected because fewer people are carriers and I believe that there are fewer carriers thanks to vaccines.

Always, never, should, they and no one are all fine terms used in context. And pro-vax or anti-vax are just attempts to use a label, much like black or white, she or he, or any myriad of others that humans use to organize their trains of thought. If not being vaccinated feels like it’s the best decision for YOU, then that’s YOUR choice. But YOUR choice or MY choice does not necessarily become the ONLY choice for EVERYONE. And when THEY say THIS or when THEY say THAT, those capitalized words become labels, much like vaxxer or antivaxxer. I hope that YOU don’t contract any infection from Covid but if you do you had the CHOICE to be vaccinated or not and so YOUR fate is in YOUR hands. Best of luck to you there. I just hope that if you do become infected that you won’t pass YOUR infection on to someone else, vaccinated or not.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Covid SEEMS to be be getting better at spreading as time goes on. They can’t be vaccinated and they don’t become infected as often but babies are infecting their families and caregivers in their homes, at times. Babies also can’t wear masks. I think that most seniors won’t come into contact with babies so much as they might with the parents and caretakers of them but it’s yet one more thing to consider, perhaps, as science tries to stop the spread of Covid. Here is the article link - Babies spreading Covid? It was published in The New York Times.

 

[squatting dog]

I was talking about how I feel that you use drama to attempt to put your point across-no one is going to push into anyone’s house to vaccinate anyone. Suggesting such a thing is using drama and it also tries to push people into a certain level of panic. The panic thing has already been discussed.

Not so fast... Never say never.
It is within the govt. power to forcibly vaccinate.
The government has the ability to force vaccinations in times of epidemic or pandemic viruses. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that governments can force vaccination of citizens. This Constitutional power can be exercised even if there is significant medical concern about the effectiveness or safety of the vaccine. The law currently stands that, in circumstances like this, the courts will defer to and trust the decisions of the elected government officials as to forced vaccinations, even though there is a risk of serious mistakes or side effects.

In reality, government officials are likely to get our population vaccinated for COVID through a more politically palatable (pleasant to accept) fashion other than forced vaccination. The tool that is likely to be used is the federal government’s almost unlimited legal ability to tax and spend.

Therefore, the government could impose taxes and spend the taxes to encourage vaccination. Currently, the proposal being most frequently discussed is to borrow (and eventually taxed citizens to pay that debt) for a financial stimulus plan, and then give the direct stimulus payments to those citizens who voluntarily vaccinate themselves and their families.