What are the reasons some do not wear masks or will not be vaccinated?

[win231]

What the heck are you talking about? The two of you?

Who was it on the forum who recently said it was the people who received the vaccines that labeled the people who did not get the vaccines as ignorant and other names? . There was also a discussion about only discussing the issues, and not calling people other names for their stance on the issues. If only my memory was better, I could point you to those discussions.

Yet, there you go. @win231 “Put down artists, ignorant people“ and @Becky1951 dramatics “do we rush into the homes of the unvaccinated and forcibly vaccinate them against their will?” When will it ever stop? This silliness. People are DYING.

Seems it is the not vaccinated who push against the vaccinated, to me.

The vaccinated do not put the not vaccinated at risk. The not vaccinated put everyone at risk unless they stay at home, avoid other people, and wear the appropriate mask when it is necessary for them to go out on public. How about the two of you discuss that issue?

The issue of how the not vaccinated can keep other people safe, not themselves safe, other people safe from them. How about the not vaccinated stop being dramatic about how many vaccinated people have died from the virus since the vaccinated people caught the virus from the non vaccinated-and acknowledge that they are partly responsible for the sickness and deaths?

How about the non vaccinated acknowledge that they are partly responsible for the surge of the virus in various states, the sickness of men, woman, and children; and the many deaths of the same. How about @win231 and @Becky1951 discuss the drama of this situation instead of the continued never-ending discussion of long term side effects of the vaccine.

Have you noticed that one of the short term side effects of the virus is death?

You have it backwards.

I'm taking the high road on this one cos I dont want us to sound like Beevus and Butthead. "You're stupid. No, you're stupid. No, you're stupider."

Im guessing "antivaxxer" is a term coined by the media. They call the other group pro vaxxers and no one seems to be offended. So what part of the term are you protesting? The prefix anti???? It means against.

For someone who appears to be combative, you are too thin-skinned, even getting offended by something non offensive.

How do you want us to call you, then? Anti-vaccinator so you can feel like a Marvel hero? I think antivaxxer is the more humane term because the other word coined by the media was covidiot.

PS For the record, you hurled the first insult.

The term "Antivaxxer" implies that someone is against all vaccines, rather than someone who doesn't trust an unapproved vaccine that was rushed into production without sufficient research, study & testing. That is what makes the term an ignorant one to use.

 

[win231]

I'm taking the high road on this one cos I dont want us to sound like Beevus and Butthead. "You're stupid. No, you're stupid. No, you're stupider."

Im guessing "antivaxxer" is a term coined by the media. They call the other group pro vaxxers and no one seems to be offended. So what part of the term are you protesting? The prefix anti???? It means against.

For someone who appears to be combative, you are too thin-skinned, even getting offended by something non offensive.

How do you want us to call you, then? Anti-vaccinator so you can feel like a Marvel hero? I think antivaxxer is the more humane term because the other word coined by the media was covidiot.

PS For the record, you hurled the first insult.

You have it backwards. The first insult is from the person who labels anyone who doesn't trust a new, untested Covid vaccine an "Antivaxxer," which implies they're against all vaccines. When you hit someone first, you can expect to get hit back.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

You have it backwards. The first insult is from the person who labels anyone who doesn't trust a new, untested Covid vaccine an "Antivaxxer," which implies they're against all vaccines. When you hit someone first, you can expect to get hit back.

Beavis? Isn't that what you said?
Uh, yeah, yeah! heh heh heh!

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Not so fast... Never say never.
It is within the govt. power to forcibly vaccinate.
The government has the ability to force vaccinations in times of epidemic or pandemic viruses. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that governments can force vaccination of citizens. This Constitutional power can be exercised even if there is significant medical concern about the effectiveness or safety of the vaccine. The law currently stands that, in circumstances like this, the courts will defer to and trust the decisions of the elected government officials as to forced vaccinations, even though there is a risk of serious mistakes or side effects.

In reality, government officials are likely to get our population vaccinated for COVID through a more politically palatable (pleasant to accept) fashion other than forced vaccination. The tool that is likely to be used is the federal government’s almost unlimited legal ability to tax and spend.

Therefore, the government could impose taxes and spend the taxes to encourage vaccination. Currently, the proposal being most frequently discussed is to borrow (and eventually taxed citizens to pay that debt) for a financial stimulus plan, and then give the direct stimulus payments to those citizens who voluntarily vaccinate themselves and their families.

@squatting dog Maybe they're doing it already. Chemtrails? Will my tin foil hat protect me from being vaccinated through chemtrails? Hmmm ... Kinda makes one wonder, don't it though?

 

[win231]

Actually, some things that don’t make sense ARE true, VERY true.

I don’t know but maybe you have heard of something called the placebo effect? It’s where an improvement in health happens, sometimes, when a person believes the “sugar pill” they take in a test trial is helping to treat them. That’s not an exact explanation but a simplified one. Doesn’t make sense but sense doesn’t make something true or not true. And I think that it’s already been determined that more unvaccinated people are causing the uptick in Covid cases than those who were vaccinated. I didn’t look it up today but that’s been the case, to the best of my knowledge, until now. Yes, some who are vaccinated do become infected or re-infected. Viruses can and do mutate into different strains. So a virus developed this week may not be as effective against next weeks mutated virus. But the fewer virus cases there are would seem to make elimination and eradication more likely. All or nothing thinking isn’t very helpful or at least doesn’t seem to be doing much to help stop the thread of the Covid virus. Vaccinations seem to have done much more.

And every time they say … Every is a strong word. And “We know the vaccine doesn’t protect you or anyone else.” It seems that new cases have diminished quite a bit since vaccinations began. Maybe vaccinations DO have some positive effect, even if it’s only a placebo one. Fewer people are being infected because fewer people are carriers and I believe that there are fewer carriers thanks to vaccines.

Always, never, should, they and no one are all fine terms used in context. And pro-vax or anti-vax are just attempts to use a label, much like black or white, she or he, or any myriad of others that humans use to organize their trains of thought. If not being vaccinated feels like it’s the best decision for YOU, then that’s YOUR choice. But YOUR choice or MY choice does not necessarily become the ONLY choice for EVERYONE. And when THEY say THIS or when THEY say THAT, those capitalized words become labels, much like vaxxer or antivaxxer. I hope that YOU don’t contract any infection from Covid but if you do you had the CHOICE to be vaccinated or not and so YOUR fate is in YOUR hands. Best of luck to you there. I just hope that if you do become infected that you won’t pass YOUR infection on to someone else, vaccinated or not.

Everyone has heard of the Placebo effect. For me, that's not enough reason to get a vaccine, drug, or medical procedure I don't trust or that I find unnecessary. Your mileage may vary.

 

[win231]

Beavis? Isn't that what you said?
Uh, yeah, yeah! heh heh heh!

^^^ Creativity & intelligence at its best.
Pity that's the best you can do.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Everyone has heard of the Placebo effect. For me, that's not enough reason to get a vaccine, drug, or medical procedure I don't trust or that I find unnecessary. Your mileage may vary.

Maybe there's a reason that we have two eyes, two ears and one mouth. I'm not sure. but I am sure that you stated in post #167, "Things that don't make sense, aren't true." (The italics are/were yours, BTW.) My mileage is fine. In fact, it gets better almost on a daily basis but the placebo effect and much of what you espouse doesn't make sense to me.

 

[win231]

Maybe there's a reason that we have two eyes, two ears and one mouth. I'm not sure. but I am sure that you stated in post #167, "Things that don't make sense, aren't true." (The italics are/were yours, BTW.) My mileage is fine. In fact, it gets better almost on a daily basis but the placebo effect and much of what you espouse doesn't make sense to me.

You have to have sense for something to make sense.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

You have to have sense for something to make sense.

When you, meaning you, say that "You have to have sense for something to make sense" does that mean only me, myself or to whom is your message directed? I naturally thought you meant me as it was in reply to my previous message. And this ephermal "something" that "you have to have", what might that refer to? You, meaning you, seem to be speaking in fairly nebulous terms. I can't make sense of what it is that your ideas mean at times. I'm not saying that you are but you sometimes sound delusional, at least to me. Even though your typed words make no sound that I can hear. But I listen, nonetheless.

 

[ManjaroKDE]

Our park's story, one woman over 65 has held steadfastly to her anti/mask/vaccine stance since the beginning. Yesterday we witnessed emergency vehicles at her location. This morning our manager stopped us during our walk to let us know that the woman has tested positive and was admitted to intensive care with full blown covid. The manager then relayed that she (the manager) is on 2 week quarantine since she was in close contact with her during the last week or so, even though she has had her vaccine.

Word is spreading around that her friends are nervous.

 

[Ladybj]

trying to blame the fact that older people have more health problems than younger ones on vaccinations is a bit disingenuous, to put it politely. Since the beginning of time older people have had more health problems than younger ones -- it is the nature of life and aging. The body wears out, just like anything else.

My point was..we have no idea how vaccines effected us as we have gotten older...probably no effect. My kids were vaccinated when they were babies. For the record, some younger people have more health issues than older adults and there are PLENTY of older adults that are healthy and doing fine - especially ones that are not on a lot of medications which can be hard on the body...jmo.

 

[Ladybj]

You should continue posting ALL Covid & Vaccine information. It helps people make an informed choice - which is not what the "Experts" want. There will always be people who won't like an opinion that's different from theirs. It shouldn't deter you; people like to feel confident in their decision & their confidence in this vaccine is already shaky to begin with. We still need BOTH sides of the story & we're not getting both sides from those who profit from the vaccine.

I agree 101% - @Becky1951 Keep the post coming. I was listening to a pod cast and one doctor really broke it down very well about the Covid vaccine. Will not discuss it here... we all do our own research and do what's best for us and our health. Being PUSHED way too hard for me to even consider taking it.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

It's just too bad that there is no vaccine against bitterness, paranoia and unkindness. Then again though, I imagine that there would still be people who didn't trust that or think that our world would be better off if those things were to be eradicated. And I guarantee but without any supporting documentation, that no mask will protect anyone from bitterness, paranoia or unkindness.

 

[Ladybj]

Just about every post I've seen (or posted myself) is accompanied by a link to the article or if that's not possible, copied & pasted. The article usually lists the source of the information & those reading it can decide for themselves if they consider it valid or not.
The problem is, people who choose to be vaccinated are troubled by any negative vaccine information & they express it with disrespect & insults. They're already frustrated at this situation, as we all are & they deal with their frustration poorly.

I find that to be sooooo TRUE. "People who choose to be vaccinated are troubled by any negative vaccine information". That's why I try not to get into vaccine debates. I will give my view on it as every one is entitled to. It is interesting that people that are unvax seem to not be bothered as much whether someone is vax or not. We all do what is best for us.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

I find that to be sooooo TRUE. "People who choose to be vaccinated are troubled by any negative vaccine information". That's why I try not to get into vaccine debates. I will give my view on it as every one is entitled to. It is interesting that people that are unvax seem to not be bothered as much whether someone is vax or not. We all do what is best for us.

I'm glad we agree on at least one point but my experience has been that both sides are pretty adamant about what they "know". Sure, we all are welcome to express our views but in the end, I don't think that many if any of OUR views would qualify as expert ones. But hey, thanks for seeing what I feel is TRUE too!

And just as a side note, you mention vax and unvax. Are those the proper terms to use that are non or less offensive? I've read that many of what you might call unvax's get upset when mentioned as antivaxxers. Me, I don't care what you call me, just as long as it's not late for dinner!

 

[win231]

When you, meaning you, say that "You have to have sense for something to make sense" does that mean only me, myself or to whom is your message directed? I naturally thought you meant me as it was in reply to my previous message. And this ephermal "something" that "you have to have", what might that refer to? You, meaning you, seem to be speaking in fairly nebulous terms. I can't make sense of what it is that your ideas mean at times. I'm not saying that you are but you sometimes sound delusional, at least to me. Even though your typed words make no sound that I can hear. But I listen, nonetheless.

My point was..we have no idea how vaccines effected us as we have gotten older...probably no effect. My kids were vaccinated when they were babies. For the record, some younger people have more health issues than older adults and there are PLENTY of older adults that are healthy and doing fine - especially ones that are not on a lot of medications which can be hard on the body...jmo.

^^^ The smartest people are thinkers.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

And some of the dumbest people I've encountered think that their thoughts are true ones. But the truly smart people don't believe every though that enters their minds. They know better than the lesser thinkers, the value of filtering and questioning.

 

[Ladybj]

I'm glad we agree on at least one point but my experience has been that both sides are pretty adamant about what they "know". Sure, we all are welcome to express our views but in the end, I don't think that many if any of OUR views would qualify as expert ones. But hey, thanks for seeing what I feel is TRUE too!

And just as a side note, you mention vax and unvax. Are those the proper terms to use that are non or less offensive? I've read that many of what you might call unvax's get upset when mentioned as antivaxxers. Me, I don't care what you call me, just as long as it's not late for dinner!

In which post I agreed with you? I think it was a post from Win that I agreed..

 

[win231]

I'm glad we agree on at least one point but my experience has been that both sides are pretty adamant about what they "know". Sure, we all are welcome to express our views but in the end, I don't think that many if any of OUR views would qualify as expert ones. But hey, thanks for seeing what I feel is TRUE too!

And just as a side note, you mention vax and unvax. Are those the proper terms to use that are non or less offensive? I've read that many of what you might call unvax's get upset when mentioned as antivaxxers. Me, I don't care what you call me, just as long as it's not late for dinner!

You are mistaken (again). People who don't want the Covid vaccine do not think they know more than those who want it. It's what they don't know that makes them avoid the vaccine.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

You are mistaken (again). People who don't want the Covid vaccine do not think they know more than those who want it. It's what they don't know that makes them avoid the vaccine.

I doubt that you'll EVER listen to me, since you don't seem to have done so thus far. Maybe this guy can explain to you better than I have been able to but I'm not optimistic that you'll take his word on anything either due mainly to just what he said.

And just to clarify, it's Mr Twain saying YOU and not me.

 

[Ladybj]

I doubt that you'll EVER listen to me, since you don't seem to have done so thus far. Maybe this guy can explain to you better than I have been able to but I'm not optimistic that you'll take his word on anything either due mainly to just what he said.

And just to clarify, it's Mr Twain saying YOU and not me.

So saying the Vaccine is a sure thing - "Just ain't so" ?

 

[Chris P Bacon]

In which post I agreed with you? I think it was a post from Win that I agreed..

You are so right, it was win231that you were agreeing with! Sometimes when one is being attacked from all sides it's togh to keep track of where all the shots are coming from. I apologize for thinking that you were being agreeable.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

So saying the Vaccine is a sure thing - "Just ain't so"

Then why would you say that it were as you just did? You might want to tape that quote to your forehead and give it some time to penetrate into what you know already. There's a message there, I promise you!

I don't know who said this but I've heard and believe that there are TWO sides to most stories. You seem to only want your side read.

 

[win231]

It's just too bad that there is no vaccine against bitterness, paranoia and unkindness. Then again though, I imagine that there would still be people who didn't trust that or think that our world would be better off if those things were to be eradicated. And I guarantee but without any supporting documentation, that no mask will protect anyone from bitterness, paranoia or unkindness.

Then why would you say that it were as you just did? You might want to tape that quote to your forehead and give it some time to penetrate into what you know already. There's a message there, I promise you!

You're correct - there is no vaccine or mask that prevents unkindness. It's not preventing yours.

 

[win231]

When you, meaning you, say that "You have to have sense for something to make sense" does that mean only me, myself or to whom is your message directed? I naturally thought you meant me as it was in reply to my previous message. And this ephermal "something" that "you have to have", what might that refer to? You, meaning you, seem to be speaking in fairly nebulous terms. I can't make sense of what it is that your ideas mean at times. I'm not saying that you are but you sometimes sound delusional, at least to me. Even though your typed words make no sound that I can hear. But I listen, nonetheless.

If you really try hard, you might figure it out.
Maybe.