The connection between religion and suicide

Irwin

Irwin

Well-known Member
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Another thread got me thinking about this. I didn't think it was appropriate to post it in that thread so I'm posting it here.

Often, according to news articles, people who commit suicide are often either highly religious, or when it involves young people, they come from highly religious homes. I don't mean to say my observation is from studies out there; it's just from individual articles I've read where they're describing the person who committed the act. Granted, I'm sure there are atheists who committed suicide, but it just seems like, more often than not, there's a religious connection.

So, is there a connection between a person's religiosity and the risk of suicide?
 

I am quite religious and would never consider SUICIDE. It is out of the question to commit suicide ~ for me.

So, 'I' do not think there is a real connection between suicide and religion.
 

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The number one category for suicides in the UK is young men, (as it has been for the last forty years I believe).

I haven't come across the argument put forward in the OP before, though this may be my ignorance rather than anything else.
 
Irwin said:
Another thread got me thinking about this. I didn't think it was appropriate to post it in that thread so I'm posting it here.

Often, according to news articles, people who commit suicide are often either highly religious, or when it involves young people, they come from highly religious homes. I don't mean to say my observation is from studies out there; it's just from individual articles I've read where they're describing the person who committed the act. Granted, I'm sure there are atheists who committed suicide, but it just seems like, more often than not, there's a religious connection.

So, is there a connection between a person's religiosity and the risk of suicide?
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It probably could do with some study, tho no way is it the crucial factor, IMO. Tho being raised in an overbearingly religious household could potentially magnify other factors in the person's mind. It would be important to ask those who survived their attempt(s) 1) how religiously they were raised and 2) how deeply they believed the dogma they were raised with.

From my own experience, reading a good deal about the subject and having talked to others who were suicidal (i have more than once been on 'Dawn Patrol'-- keeping a suicidal person engaged in conversation till the morning light. ) the thing most of us have is common is wanting the pain to stop. If some one deeply believed in any religion's afterlife ideation that would, especially considering that most faiths have injunctions against suicide, be something that would give one pause.
People who self mutilate often say that inflicting physical pain, that they exert control over helps to distract from the mental/emotional pain. So for both suicidal folks and self mutilators, it would seem the prime factor is escaping even if just temporarily, a painful existence they feel they can't exert much control over.
 
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In my drinking-to-excess days I realised that while I was not actually suicidal I didn't really care whether I lived or died. Alcohol is a depressant in itself. One night, when pretty blotto from too much port wine, I seemed to hear a voice in my head that I identified as God speaking to me directly. The voice said, "Why are you doing this?" My response was "Go away".

Next morning I wondered whether God would abandon me for my insubordination. "He/She/It" did not forsake me despite my rudeness and not long after events conspired to lead me to an AA meeting. I won't go into details now but it was quite extraordinary in the way it happened. From that day I never had another drink and my will to live is restored. Anecdotes prove nothing. It is possible that there are as many religious people saved from suicide as there are who are successful in killing themselves. IMO drugs and alcohol are more likely to make people prone to self harm than any religious beliefs.
 
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PamfromTx said:
I am quite religious and would never consider SUICIDE. It is out of the question to commit suicide ~ for me.

So, 'I' do not think there is a real connection between suicide and religion.
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That's exactly what most people say.....as long as they've never walked in others' shoes.
And they've never had any health issues that involve constant severe pain & a hopeless outcome.
There is nothing easier than saying "I would never........" when they've never been there.
 
Warrigal said:
In my drinking-to-excess days I realised that while I was not actually suicidal I didn't really care whether I lived or died. Alcohol is a depressant in itself. One night, when pretty blotto from too much port wine, I seemed to hear a voice in my head that I identified as God speaking to me directly. The voice said, "Why are you doing this?" My response was "Go away".

Next morning I wondered whether God would abandon me for my insubordination. "He/She/It" did not forsake me despite my rudeness and not long after events conspired to lead me to an AA meeting. I won't go into details now but it was quite extraordinary in the way it happened. From that day I never had another drink and my will to live is restored. Anecdotes prove nothing. It is possible that there are as many religious people saved from suicide as there are who are successful in killing themselves. IMO drugs and alcohol are more likely to make people prone to self harm than any religious beliefs.
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What doesn't kill you, mutates and tries again. Lol Grow Or Die! Lol I hurt so bad today physically that I wanted a drink but I didn't. The stuff makes me stupid.
 
PamfromTx said:
I am quite religious and would never consider SUICIDE. It is out of the question to commit suicide ~ for me.
So, 'I' do not think there is a real connection between suicide and religion.
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win231 said:
That's exactly what most people say.....as long as they've never walked in others' shoes.
And they've never had any health issues that involve constant severe pain & a hopeless outcome.
There is nothing easier than saying "I would never........" when they've never been there.
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I understand Pam's statement, win231, as she clearly opened her post declaring a strong faith. There is a peace that passes all understanding when you have a strong faith. There's a gratitude that our Creator has given us life. And there's trust in Him for His perfect timing.

With that said, I also understand those who are suffering unbearable severe pain.
It's a personal choice and I would never judge them for any decision they make.
 
Win, what makes you think that 'we' have not walked in others' shoes? What makes you think that even religious people have not suffered? Some of us have been there, trust me. I refuse to go into details about my medical past; it's no ones business.

It all comes down to having faith. At least to me. Faith, at its core, is deep-rooted in the expectation of good things to come. It goes beyond hope. While much of hope lives in the mind, faith is steeped in the heart and the spirit. While life can be hard at the best of times, faith is the knowledge, deep down inside, that things will get better.

Without faith, we couldn’t expect that things would turn out all right for us no matter what the situation might be.

Faith, then, is just as important as the air we breathe. While the oxygen in the air nourishes the body, faith nourishes the heart and the soul. It’s the energy that courses through every single fiber and cell within our beings. It’s part of every muscle and every strand of thought. It is the fundamental foundation of our existence.

Simply put, the importance of faith cannot be underestimated.

People have moved mountains with their faith. Even when situations seemed dire and bleak, it was their faith that carried them through. There’s little to no explanation for it in the physical realm; it’s the metaphysical fiber that binds us all, carrying each of our deepest wishes and desires. That’s where faith lives.

Unfortunately, some people don’t believe in things that they cannot see. They explain things away due to other causes and effects, failing to find the small miracles in life that exist and work in our favor on a constant basis. There’s an enormous level of importance attributable to having faith in life.

@Lara , thanks for understanding.
 
win231 said:
That's exactly what most people say.....as long as they've never walked in others' shoes.
And they've never had any health issues that involve constant severe pain & a hopeless outcome.
There is nothing easier than saying "I would never........" when they've never been there.
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You raise a related but distinct issue--end of life choices. While some very religious people might see having a DNR, refusing treatment (surgery and/or Chemo) for a cancer as a kind of 'suicide', i see that as a separate thing with different driving forces. i don't know for certain but i suspect people more often make such choices after an at least average length life-span, when the chronic age related body changes are already taking a toll on one's comfort and endurance, sapping energy just dealing with chronic aches and pains.

Recently a very dear friend made such a choice. We'd became friends in Junior year of High School, drifted apart around age 26, reconnected on FB in our early 60's, she was just 2 months younger than me, and except for catching up on the 'meantime' it was almost like no time had passed we talked easily about everything and with our same old empathy and understanding of each other. She had been having strokes for some 4 years, and the last one this spring affected her ability to articulate what she was thinking accurately (tho close relatives and friends could still decipher it). Then in late June she was diagnosed with colon cancer. She moved into a hospice (fortunately her parents left her quite well off and she had used/invested wisely so $$ not an issue) refused any treatment for cancer, only palliative care for symptoms of her health.

The long phone discussion i had with her about all this in late June, was our last. She explained her reasoning, talked some about the 'amazing' life she felt she'd had, how happy she'd been to be able to help people but that she felt it was 'time'. The doctors and a few people tried to argue with her about it, but those of us who knew and loved her, understood. i've had that conversation, as everyone should, especially as we get older, with my kids--they know at what point i would consider life untenable any longer, and would want to be merely kept physically alive. i told her understanding, accepting her choice didn't mean we'd miss her physical presence in the world any less. Monday i got a call from her Executor, she had quit eating in late July, (as my Dad had two weeks before his death at home under our care) and she died on 8/13.

Some might think and/or say that the course she took was suicidal--because doctors might have prolonged her life--but at what cost to her physically and emotionally? i firmly believe that when it comes to that point for any of us we have a right to choose to let nature take its course. i would also ask people who view such choices as covertly 'suicidal' if they pass the same judgement on people who continue to smoke or drink despite doing continuing severe damage to their bodies by doing so. For me they too get to make that choice, tho i've been known to tell those who made the latter choice that i would not sympathize with them over any symptoms, i didn't want to hear complaints from the effects of those substances on their bodies--because they knew the potential consequences of continuing because they were already experiencing some of them .
 
To me, it seems "religion" isn't one thing. There are thousands of religions, with multiple subsects, and countless levels of belief. Also, most of the major religions abhor suicide. And there are numerous reasons for suicide. Is it possible that "religion" was somehow a motivation is someone's suicide, well it could be. Suicide is a personal decision, with all manner of motivations, and it does seem contrary to most religious beliefs to commit suicide. I doubt there's a significant correlation between religion and suicide..
 
@PamfromTx said in part: "There’s little to no explanation for it in the physical realm; it’s the metaphysical fiber that binds us all, carrying each of our deepest wishes and desires. That’s where faith lives."

While i don't belong to an organized religion, these two sentences resonated deeply with me. The term 'metaphysical fiber' especially: The consciousness, the love.

And it occurs to me that Win231, did not get that you didn't pass judgement on anyone else's choice. You were simply stating how YOU feel about it. And in her response to him Lara took the same compassionate position--stating how she felt, not judging the choices of others.
 
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This study shows increased risk of suicide in religious people:

Contrary to findings in an earlier sample,(REFERENCE REMOVED) in this study involving 321 depressed and bipolar adults, past suicide attempts were more common among depressed patients with a religious affiliation. Additionally, suicide ideation was more severe among depressed patients who said religion is more important, and among those who attend services more frequently.​
 
Alligatorob said:
Interesting and well researched article, finds little if any connection.

Religion and Suicide Risk: a systematic review​

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7310534/
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Thanks posting what looks to be a comprehensive look at studies on the subject. i don't have time right now to read it all, but their methods and operating definitions seem sensible. Two things one should always look at in assessing the results of a study. Method includes, in this case how they chose the previous studies on the topic to use as data. In general method will include who got 'asked' what--where/when/how asked, or how any 'experiment' was set up, what kind of controls were in place etc. Operating definitions often narrow the perspective of a study, which is sometimes necessary to get meaningful results. In this case they were very liberal and inclusive in what constituted 'religion or spirituality'.

One thing that did jump out at me is that at least one study showed higher suicide rate for Hindus and 'related' faiths. i would expect that logically as Hindus believe in Reincarnation, tho personally my belief in reincarnation motivates to do this life the best way i can.
 
Irwin said:
This study shows increased risk of suicide in religious people:

Contrary to findings in an earlier sample,(REFERENCE REMOVED) in this study involving 321 depressed and bipolar adults, past suicide attempts were more common among depressed patients with a religious affiliation. Additionally, suicide ideation was more severe among depressed patients who said religion is more important, and among those who attend services more frequently.​
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The same study says this:

Over the past ten years, research on this question has produced mixed results. Some studies have reported that rates of suicide attempt and suicidal ideation are lower among persons who have a religious affiliation, (sources cited) However, these findings exist alongside a large number of studies finding no relationship between religion and suicide risk.

Also, the study involved 321 depressed and bipolar adults. Maybe religion helps people not to be depressed? One of the causes of depression is lack of engagement/involvement with other people. Churches, mosques and synagogues provide ways for people to connect and engage. I'm not a big believer, but I do go to church to see other people and get involved with something other than myself.
 

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