Religion: The views of an agnostic

CAKCy said:
There's quite a leap there. How does one's existence is evidence that God exists? Where's the logic in this statement?
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No "leap" required. Life would not exist without God. And human logic is not sufficient to explain God. Why do you limit the idea of God to what your logic can explain?
 

CAKCy said:
If human logic is not sufficient to explain God then why is human logic a necessity to explain life without God's presence?
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Sorry, but no. There is no life without God's presence. Your belief in God or your "logic" is not a requirement for his presence.
 

Buckeye said:
And who says there is life without God's presence?
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Answering a question with a question. Interesting.

This is what Science hypothesizes based on available evidence. Since there is no proof for the opposite I choose to trust Science for a single reason: Science will admit the invalidity of any hypothesis if there's evidence available disproving such a hypothesis. Religion will not.
 
CAKCy said:
Answering a question with a question. Interesting.

This is what Science hypothesizes based on available evidence. Since there is no proof for the opposite I choose to trust Science for a single reason: Science will admit the invalidity of any hypothesis if there's evidence available disproving such a hypothesis. Religion will not.
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My question is a valid as yours, and your refusal to answer says it all. And God transcends science. Again, you try to limit God to your human understanding, but God is not thusly limited.

We're done here.
 
Buckeye said:
My question is a valid as yours, and your refusal to answer says it all. And God transcends science. Again, you try to limit God to your human understanding, but God is not thusly limited.

We're done here.
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Refusal to answer? I have answered! (But you didn't. Instead you posed another question.)

God transcends science. Says who?

I try to limit God to my human understanding? What I don't understand is how you (and other believers) can question anything based on your human understanding except when you deal with God. You throw a "God transcends science" or a "God cannot be explained with human logic" and you think you can get away with it.

Of course we are done here. Logic is a prerequisite for a debate! Otherwise one is free to claim just about anything!
 
CAKCy said:
There is no life without God's presence says who?
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and
Buckeye said:
And who says there is life without God's presence?
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The crux of the debate!

I think the answer is no one can answer either question based on hard facts. And maybe never will. Its a question of what you decide to believe, a supernatural explanation or the conviction that there is a fact based answer we don't yet fully understand.

I tend to come down on the side of science, but can understand why others do not.
 
Alligatorob said:
I think the answer is no one can answer either question based on hard facts. And maybe never will. Its a question of what you decide to believe, a supernatural explanation or the conviction that there is a fact based answer we don't yet fully understand.

I tend to come down on the side of science, but can understand why others do not.
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As I have already answered to @Buckeye: "This is what Science hypothesizes based on available evidence. Since there is no proof for the opposite I choose to trust Science for a single reason: Science will admit the invalidity of any hypothesis if there's evidence available disproving such a hypothesis. Religion will not."
 
“I believe in everything until it’s disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it’s in your mind. Who’s to say that dreams and nightmares aren’t as real as the here and now?” (John Lennon)


Science and logic does nothing for man spiritually, one needs faith to make dreams come true (Shero)
 
Shero said:
I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it’s in your mind.
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Good point, in many ways what exists in one's mind is all that really matters. I also believe in the existence of "fairies, the myths, dragons", I believe they are real and powerful concepts. They have long persisted in human history. Not so sure about their physical existence though.
 
Shero said:
“I believe in everything until it’s disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it’s in your mind. Who’s to say that dreams and nightmares aren’t as real as the here and now?” (John Lennon)


Science and logic does nothing for man spiritually, one needs faith to make dreams come true (Shero)
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With all due respect I will disagree with both Lennon and you, my friend. Dreams based on reality do not need faith for one to make them come true. They require hard work and focusing.

Re spiritualism... my life is governed by philosophy which helps me work on my morals/principles/values.
 
CAKCy said:
Refusal to answer? I have answered! (But you didn't. Instead you posed another question.)

God transcends science. Says who?

I try to limit God to my human understanding? What I don't understand is how you (and other believers) can question anything based on your human understanding except when you deal with God. You throw a "God transcends science" or a "God cannot be explained with human logic" and you think you can get away with it.

Of course we are done here. Logic is a prerequisite for a debate! Otherwise one is free to claim just about anything!
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Science has no proof that God does not exist, nor can Science prove that God does exist. You know that. So, no you have not answered my question. I see you claiming God does not exist, because your "logic" tells you so. Sorry, but human logic is not capable of answering everything, and your refusal to see that tells me all I need to know.

And I will say again that the mere presence of life is proof of God's existence. The end.
 
CAKCy said:
With all due respect I will disagree with both Lennon and you, my friend. Dreams based on reality do not need faith for one to make them come true. They require hard work and focusing.

Re spiritualism... my life is governed by philosophy which helps me work on my morals/principles/values.
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"If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales.

If you want them to be very intelligent, read them more fairy tales."

(Albert Einstein).
 
Buckeye said:
Science has no proof that God does not exist, nor can Science prove that God does exist. You know that. So, no you have not answered my question. I see you claiming God does not exist, because your "logic" tells you so. Sorry, but human logic is not capable of answering everything, and your refusal to see that tells me all I need to know.

And I will say again that the mere presence of life is proof of God's existence. The end.
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Science hypothesizes on the beginning of life. And that answers your question.

And again: It is very interesting that you use human logic for everything except when it comes to God. For instance: You don't accept Science's hypothesis about the beginning of life based on your logic. But when it comes to God you claim that logic is not enough to explain him/her.

You keep putting "The End" statements after a claim that has no proven validity whatsoever. With the same ease I could say:

The mere presence of ice cream is proof of existence of aliens. Don't look for any logic there. Your logic is not sufficient to explain this.

The end?!
 
Shero said:
"If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales.

If you want them to be very intelligent, read them more fairy tales."

(Albert Einstein).
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Fairy tales is a method of developing critical thinking. It is not a path to believing what cannot be scientifically proven or at least have a valid scientific hypothesis. :)
 
CAKCy said:
Fairy tales is a method of developing critical thinking. It is not a path to believing what cannot be scientifically proven or at least have a valid scientific hypothesis. :)
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Einstein also said : “Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. He said fairy tales help develop imagination, and that imagination then helps prepare a child to later become a scientist.”
 
Shero said:
Einstein also said : “Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. He said fairy tales help develop imagination, and that imagination then helps prepare a child to later become a scientist.”
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You are right! Imagination (just like criticism - but that's another story) is a necessary ingredient for improvement. Without imagination, knowledge is stagnated to what it is. In that sense fairy tales do help develop imagination. I should consider it as part of my previous answer.
 
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