Well, pat my back and call me a conspiracy nut.

There has always been a manipulative vocal minority on both sides of the issue that has used the pandemic for political reasons and their targets tend to be a general audience of those unable to understand the science or its interpretation on their own so look to their leaders to guide them. Note I've been a moderate for a long time disgusted with both political parties, prefer to avoid politics, have a science background able to read bio technical papers, and have received 3 Pfizer shots.

That noted, there are also significant numbers of those not wanting vaccinations that actually don't ever get any vaccinations because they are needle phobic. Many are not strongly so but rather have avoided ever getting flu shots much like many people avoid ever going to the dentist by simply immediately ignoring advice to do so, putting it out of their mind. Media has been generally afraid to bring up this subject because they do not want to publicly embarrass those that are and instead coerce them in other ways. Such people will use any other popular excuse they read about on the web to not be vaccinated instead of admitting the embarrassing truth. The more they are pressured by the rest of us, the more they become stubbornly hardened into their position, especially given the name calling and shaming so many tend to use.

That worked until as recent data has shown once vaccination became available earlier this year of 2021, a sharp difference arose between severe cases for those vaccinated versus those not, so they have tended to move away from older arguments like "its not yet proven..." towards arguments that forcing vaccinations is "un-American against their freedoms..." Of course the media political manipulators are the loudest in moving their followers that way. Another tactic is to encourage those unvaccinated who do come down with COVID-19 to make public claims they were vaccinated since that is the most damaging narrative to their cause and spouting so casually cannot be verified.

It is true that those vaccinated can indeed still catch the disease because many ordinary simple people don't understand one is still likely to become sick if they breathe in excessive amounts of the virus beyond what their improved immune systems can handle. Thus being vaccinated is not a ticket to engage in many pre-pandemic social behaviors. Close contact with a contagious person for hours in an enclosed environment is a recipe for getting sick just as such has been always been the case with airborne infectious diseases.

The majority of needle phobic are not seniors because we seniors were brought up during a Cold War and earlier era when all children received several vaccinations and no one protested but rather vaccines were proclaimed wonders of modern medicine. Instead most are from following generations with the recent decade's avoidance of measles vaccination where much of the current pandemic resistance started from especially with the advent of Internet social media that gave them power.
 

I remember the news 1.5 years ago. They said that the immune system gets weaker and weaker as people age. Therefore, seniors have a much weaken immune system. They said the young kids have a very strong immune system and there is absolutely no reason to innoculate them. So the wheel goes round and round. You might say that there theory has evolved!
Follow the money; that's where theories evolve.

A few weeks ago, I was watching HSN; they were advertising a Keurig Coffeemaker on sale.
Part of the pitch was: "The Keurig heats the water up to the ideal temperature for brewing coffee - 165 - 185 degrees."
Uh.......that's a lie. Coffee connoisseurs know that the ideal brewing temperature is 195 - 205 degrees.
Of course, they want to sell the product, so they change the information to match what they're selling.
 

I saw a thing on TV a couple days ago that Pfiser wants to produce a veterinary covid vaccine and call for a mandate to vaccinate all pets.

I'm serious.

People are already vaccinating their horses and cows. Can you imagine the money Pfiser could make off beef cattle and race-horses? 🤑
I vaccinate my dogs for the flu, so yes, I’d vaccinate my puppy for Covid.
 
Kind of surprised that you don't seem to remember the disaster "Cutter Incident" from their experimental polio vaccine, or the fact that polio vaccines were first tried in the 1930's and it wasn't until the 50's that the vaccine became commonplace. So, that vaccine took years, not months to perfect.

All in a time before high powered computing as well as understanding of the genome and RNA made rapid development and testing possible. I'm sure Edward Jenner's smallpox inoculation took a while to perfect, as well.

The vaccines are far from perfect, but they're pretty darn good, which is good enough for me.
 
I saw a thing on TV a couple days ago that Pfiser wants to produce a veterinary covid vaccine and call for a mandate to vaccinate all pets.

I'm serious.

People are already vaccinating their horses and cows. Can you imagine the money Pfiser could make off beef cattle and race-horses? 🤑

Murmur: have been around horses at all? Do you know anything about horses? Well I have. Long before covid, horses have to be vaccinated against many diseases each year. Other animals in close association with humans have to also,
so, it is natural for these animals to be protected also against covid. Stop being such an alarmist, do some research please!
.
 
Murmur: have been around horses at all? Do you know anything about horses? Well I have. Long before covid, horses have to be vaccinated against many diseases each year. Other animals in close association with humans have to also,
so, it is natural for these animals to be protected also against covid. Stop being such an alarmist, do some research please!
.
I wasn't being an alarmist. Why do you insist on characterizing me as something I'm not?

I grew up on a farm with cows, horses, and pigs, and yeah, the local veterinarian came out seasonally and whenever new livestock arrived.
 
Delusional conspiracy believer dies of covid:



Washington state Sen. Doug Ericksen dies after battle with COVID​



State Sen. Doug Ericksen, a stalwart conservative voice in the Legislature, former leader of Donald Trump's campaign in Washington and an outspoken critic of COVID-19 emergency orders, has died, his family said Saturday. He was 52.

Ericksen said last month that he had tested positive for the coronavirus while on a trip to El Salvador, although his cause of death was not immediately confirmed this weekend.



https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...n-doug-ericksen-dies-after-battle-with-covid/


It's a good bet he and his pals don't believe covid is just a hoax anymore.
 
Delusional conspiracy believer dies of covid:



Washington state Sen. Doug Ericksen dies after battle with COVID​



State Sen. Doug Ericksen, a stalwart conservative voice in the Legislature, former leader of Donald Trump's campaign in Washington and an outspoken critic of COVID-19 emergency orders, has died, his family said Saturday. He was 52.

Ericksen said last month that he had tested positive for the coronavirus while on a trip to El Salvador, although his cause of death was not immediately confirmed this weekend.



https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...n-doug-ericksen-dies-after-battle-with-covid/


It's a good bet he and his pals don't believe covid is just a hoax anymore.
You are mistaken. I read an article about it this morning. It said "It is unclear whether he was vaccinated." If he was not vaccinated, the media would have jumped on it, since the whole idea is to sell vaccines. When they say "It is unclear," it usually means he was vaccinated; they don't want to hurt sales by having people think the vaccine is useless. Besides, most of us know the vaccine is required for foreign travel.
My apologies for disappointing the "Blame Gamers" on this forum.
 
Everyone wants to make their own choice on this issue because there's no clear and absolute right choice that fits everyone. Along with that freedom of choice comes the consequences of making your choice.

Those who choose to be vaccinated may suffer horrible reactions to the vaccine immediately or at some point in the future. They made their choice so don't complain if things go off the rails.

Those who choose to be unvaccinated may suffer the consequences of limited freedom of movement in pubic and/or employment opportunities. They made their choice so don't complain if that's the way things go.

The only difference is, those that are unvaccinated can still change their mind. Not so much with those who are already vaccinated.
you'll have to live [or not] with your decision. the difference is those vaccinated have scientific support ;that has been peer-reviewed, showing the efficacy of the vaccine comes from the fda and a host of medical institutions[virtually all] that do not consider the vaccines to be a bad thing. sure something could happen to the millions who have gotten the vaccine but it's more likely something bad could happen to those who don't and probably won't. the pandemic is occurring right now and the vaccines offer the best protection that we currently have.
 
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Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just trying to understand. If this and other discussions are getting old, why follow them and reply? Wouldn't it be easier to ignore them? 🌹
that advice goes both ways. please don't take offense but somehow the argument and thinly veiled name calling has to end. a truce would be nice. everyone has already made up their own mind.
 
that advice goes both ways. please don't take offense but somehow the argument and thinly veiled name calling has to end. a truce would be nice. everyone has already made up their own mind.
Please take the time to check who is doing all the name calling. I have never called anyone stupid, idiot, uneducated, non caring, unpatriotic, just to name a few.
 


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