Tragic house fire in Philadelphia kills 13

Now seeing reports of 2 dozen people living in that building which seems like a lot. Also non working smoke detectors. This looks like it was an accident waiting to happen.

This makes this more than sad.

7 kids who didn't get a chance in the fire or life in general
 
Tragic yes .... but perfect example of reality vs how it works on paper

Most states and HUD have rules on occupancy limits on housing ... i am sure All states have rules that ALL rental units have working smoke detectors.....
being this was owned by the Philadelphia housing authority...... i would have thought The Landlord ( Philadelphia).... would check for working fire detectors and see if a whole group of people moved in with the original tenants...
If government owned does not do that basic of due diligence .........how do they expect private landlords to.
rules on the books but not enforced or even checked are worthless...IMO

I only lived a short time in an apartment type setting but twice a year the staff scheduled a visit to check on smoke detectors to make sure tenants did not disable etc.

I know of families that have moved in with others because the affordability issue or job loss etc.
Even in private homes they sometimes grossly exceed the standard occupancy for house .... But it is ALWAYS a tragedy that brings it to light
 
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Exactly. There are occupancy rules for a reason/s. This is also why they want walkable paths in apartments to windows and doors. Or don't allow smoking legal or not because one cigarette, joint, cigar etc can turn an entire building of tenant into homeless people.

Also I'm not a fan of some interior decorating trends which have bed covers purposely going to the floor which is a trip hazard let alone flames catching them that much faster. I also see people hanging drapes over entire walls not just window which is more cloth to burn.
 
Jeni said:
Remember this was PHA- The Philadelphia Housing authority
PUBLIC housing and some people wonder why others simply do NOT trust any form of government bureaucracy.
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And they cannot afford smoke detector batteries? Or to install the most basic of fire escape or install supports/hooks to place a roll up/out ladder?

Sounds like they're not inspecting or maybe they're exempt from rountine fire inspections and are only inspected by the housing authority itself? An inspection should've raised figurative alarms just from the number of occupants.
 
Lewkat said:
I guess there will be some new laws about 18 people occupying one apartment in Philadelphia now. What a shame.
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Part of the issue is that it is not just about affordable housing for some. They want to save money and/or spend on other things. Some treat an apartment like a spring breaker in a Florida hotel ie it's just a party and crash pad. And there are enterprising tenants shall we say will rent anything from a spare bedroom to a spot on the floor. Others are stuck in their college dorm or frat house days, came from large families or are used to institutional dorm type living ie a bed/cot and that's it. I'd say there are/were probably other health safey issues living like that as well.

I have rented basically old hotel rooms to avoid roomate living
 
WhatInThe said:
Or don't allow smoking legal or not because one cigarette, joint, cigar etc can turn an entire building of tenant into homeless people.
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They don’t permit smoking or you’re suggesting this? Equally dangerous are bbqs on the balcony or candles.

I can’t read all the details on your links because I have an adblocker. A Canadian article said their were 26 people living in this building. This is so sad to lose so many people and they fear there‘ll be more. They said the alarms had been tested and batteries replaced in 2020. That could be almost two full years, though batteries should last that long. Maybe someone disconnected them because of them going off when cooking.
 
Jules said:
They don’t permit smoking or you’re suggesting this? Equally dangerous are bbqs on the balcony or candles.

I can’t read all the details on your links because I have an adblocker. A Canadian article said their were 26 people living in this building. This is so sad to lose so many people and they fear there‘ll be more. They said the alarms had been tested and batteries replaced in 2020. That could be almost two full years, though batteries should last that long. Maybe someone disconnected them because of them going off when cooking.
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I brought up the smoking because many assume that anti smoking laws are just complainers getting their way when in fact they are there to lower the chances of a fire. Which insurance companies like and/or will make a landlord institute a no smoking policy for a discount or just to get insurance with them. If this was a privately owned property their insurance could go broke paying this one off. Same for brbq's although apparently no balconies here

There are some conflicting reports on this being a converted house, a duplex and/or a 5 unit apartment building. But 26 people in basically a town home is too much if you ask me.

Also at least 4 smoke detectors didn't work or had no batteries. One story said they checked for working smoke detectors in May and everything was ok. But it didn't say wether it was the housing authority or fire dept/code inspection.
 
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WhatInThe said:
And they cannot afford smoke detector batteries? Or to install the most basic of fire escape or install supports/hooks to place a roll up/out ladder?

Sounds like they're not inspecting or maybe they're exempt from rountine fire inspections and are only inspected by the housing authority itself? An inspection should've raised figurative alarms just from the number of occupants.
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According to the report, the PHA last inspected the detectors in May 2021. I have no idea how often the inspections are supposed to take place, probably only annually.
 
I saw today there were 18 people living in one unit and no smoke alarm system. Stop blaming the govt. If the smoke detectors batteries run down buy new ones. Simple.
 
fmdog44 said:
I saw today there were 18 people living in one unit and no smoke alarm system. Stop blaming the govt. If the smoke detectors batteries run down buy new ones. Simple.
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If the batteries were replaced less than a year ago, I'd guess the residents disarmed the detectors by removing the batteries, not that they ran down. Cooking smoke can set the alarms off so people disable them. :cry:

I agree that even if the batteries ran down, the residents should be responsible for replacing them. Smoke detector batteries are widely available, including at dollar stores.
 
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fmdog44 said:
I saw today there were 18 people living in one unit and no smoke alarm system. Stop blaming the govt. If the smoke detectors batteries run down buy new ones. Simple.
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Saw one report 15 people were in the upper floor unit which is an 4 bedroom apartment. That's 4 people per bedroom. That's bad on multiple levels. There are the safety/fire issues along with with health and even mental health reasons that can't be a good thing. And 15 people using the same one or two bathrooms???. No privacy, quiet, space for numerous things. Some buildings 15-18 people could stress the floor. This was a brewing issue for a longtime.
 
fmdog44 said:
I saw today there were 18 people living in one unit and no smoke alarm system. Stop blaming the govt. If the smoke detectors batteries run down buy new ones. Simple.
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not Blaming Govt just the Philadelphia housing authority owned the building .....Public housing ....
If this was a private landlord they would have pointed out any errors like not knowing that were crowded in a unit.
 
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