Let's get that pipeline built!

Another good reason to build the pipeline. It's safer and more environmental friendly than hauling oil by truck or rail.

http://centurylink.net/news/read/ar...nia_train_derailment_sends_oil_tanker_in-ap-2

Yesterdays train wreck is just the latest in a series of rail and truck accidents that are, and will continue to be, a problem by transporting this oil via these means. Putting all political BS aside, this oil WILL continue to be moved, and it would seem sensible to insure that it is done in the safest possible manner. Pipelines are far safer than above ground transportation. IF this Partisan Political BS can be shelved, perhaps some progress can be made...but that is probably wishful thinking.
 

I always thought too that pipelines were much safer, but to be fair, there have been explosions in the past and lives lost. Here's just one example. http://abcnews.go.com/US/san-bruno-...-homes-safe/story?id=11628120&singlePage=true

Yes, there have been several Natural GAS pipeline problems in recent years. THAT is probably the biggest issue with pipelines. The NG pipelines have been underground, in most locales, for decades, and they are getting old. If not properly maintained, and even replaced, every 30 or 40 years, this is what happens. This is another fine example of how our basic infrastructure is being ignored..until disaster strikes.

I am firmly convinced that if our government ever really wants to get Serious about creating good jobs, Infrastructure is the BEST place to start. Nearly all of our utilities can be traced back to the days after the Great Depression...electrical grid, dams and hydroelectric generation, water and sewer lines, etc.,etc.,....and it is ALL starting to show its age. We are Long overdue for a major overhaul of all these basic services, and the longer they are delayed, the greater the risks for collapse.
 

Canada build your own refinery and not only do we not want your pipeline we don't want you trucks. Like Josiah has stated, it's a major step back. This whole scheme has been cooked up by the filthy wealthy to profit from their filthy sand. I believe the wiser among us will kill this plan.
 

Pipeline supporters will argue that is why we need the pipeline. My response is make the cost of transporting by train or truck high enough by tariff to more than adequately compensate for a spill. Hopefully make it high enough to remove the incentive to move it across America. It's not a case of we have to do this by on land transport or via pipeline. WE CAN DO NEITHER!
 
Yes, there have been several Natural GAS pipeline problems in recent years. THAT is probably the biggest issue with pipelines.

Sorry, my mistake, here's a couple of oil pipeline accidents.


  • 2010 (July 25) Crude oil pipeline ruptures near Marshall, Michigan, spilling over 840,000 gallons of oil into the Kalamazoo River [SUP][31][/SUP] [SUP][32][/SUP]
  • 2013 (29 March) ExxonMobil pipeline carrying Canadian Wabasca heavy crude from the Athabasca oil sands ruptured in Mayflower, Arkansas, about 25 miles northwest of Little Rock. Approximately 12,000 barrels (1,900 m3) of oil mixed with water had been recovered by March 31. Twenty-two homes were evacuated.[1]
  • The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) classified the leak as a major spill. A reported 5,000−7,000 barrels of crude were released. [SUP][39][/SUP]
 
Sorry, my mistake, here's a couple of oil pipeline accidents.


  • 2010 (July 25) Crude oil pipeline ruptures near Marshall, Michigan, spilling over 840,000 gallons of oil into the Kalamazoo River [SUP][31][/SUP] [SUP][32][/SUP]
  • 2013 (29 March) ExxonMobil pipeline carrying Canadian Wabasca heavy crude from the Athabasca oil sands ruptured in Mayflower, Arkansas, about 25 miles northwest of Little Rock. Approximately 12,000 barrels (1,900 m3) of oil mixed with water had been recovered by March 31. Twenty-two homes were evacuated.[1]
  • The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) classified the leak as a major spill. A reported 5,000−7,000 barrels of crude were released. [SUP][39][/SUP]

Yup, no doubt about it...moving this oil around is a risky business, and there is NO perfectly safe way to do so. However, so long as people have to depend upon their cars for transportation, and natural gas/heating oil to heat their homes, we are stuck with this stuff. All we can do is insist that those involved in the oil/gas supply business use the safest means possible to supply this commodity, and demand that our government monitor their actions closely so as to keep them from taking "shortcuts".
 
How about the recent spill of millions of gallons into the Yellowstone River??

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/19/yellowstone-river-pipeline-spill_n_6497762.html

"Millions of gallons"....The article you referenced states that somewhere between 300 and 50,000 gallons were spilled...depending upon the Company or State estimates. Either way, that is a FAR CRY from "Millions". I can understand your objection to moving this oil, but Exaggeration does not serve to help make your point.
 
All we can do is insist that those involved in the oil/gas supply business use the safest means possible to supply this commodity, and demand that our government monitor their actions closely so as to keep them from taking "shortcuts".

I agree, they should be more proactive than reactive.
 
"Millions of gallons"....The article you referenced states that somewhere between 300 and 50,000 gallons were spilled...depending upon the Company or State estimates. Either way, that is a FAR CRY from "Millions". I can understand your objection to moving this oil, but Exaggeration does not serve to help make your point.

well... it wasn't intentional.... So... only 50,000 gallons...

Although... The exaggeration is not unlike the MILLIONS of jobs the keystone is likely to create
 
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Hey.... how'd that veto override go?? lol!!

It was TWO cars that burned... not 103..

The derailment occurred 3 miles south of Galena in a wooded and hilly area that is a major tourist attraction and the home of former President Ulysses S. Grant. The Jo Daviess County Sheriff’s Department confirmed the train was transporting oil from the Northern Plains’ Bakken region.
Earlier in the day, Moran said 8 tankers had left the track. But Williams said at the news conference that only six cars derailed, two of which burst into flames and continued to burn into the night.

http://www.ibusinesslines.com/freig...rails-catches-fire-in-northern-illinois-16971

So what clean up? Anyway... that's a bad thing to happen... ALL the more reason to STOP using so much fossil fuel and to develop green alternatives.. Lots of jobs to be created in that industry..
 
And another spill near the Mississippi River. 103 cars full of oil. I guess cleaning up the mess is what the president considers a better way to add jobs than building a pipeline.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/us/train-carrying-crude-oil-derails-in-illinois.html?_r=0

So long as we have this oil being moved by rail and truck, these kinds of incidents will be occur. Unfortunately, this issue has become just another "political football"...both in Congress, and among many of our people. It is more about being Pro or Anti Obama, than moving this oil in the safest manner. There is no 100% foolproof method of handing this oil, but pipelines certainly would be safer than rail. Perhaps in 50 years, we may no longer have a need for much oil, but in the meantime, it would sure be nice to see Common Sense override Political Partisanship.
 
We are living in the world of TODAY and those alternative ways are still many many years away from being useful at all.

Solar panels do not do enough to really help at all today as we still need power plants to be available for stormy or cloudy days and overnight. Whoopy for the solar panels as the few we have did work for a few hours on good days. Even down here in sunny land the don't work every day. And for one power company of southern California they built a large solar panel field here in Arizona for some reason. I would think southern California would be one of the countries better places.

Wind mills are just as inconvenient and near useless if expecting to put the regular power plants out of service.

We have many nuclear power plants in the us and they too have many problems that keep them off line a lot. I lived near one in Colorado that had so many problems they finally, after several years, took it off line and switched to natural gas. For a lack of a safe place to discard all these nuclear plant spent or unneeded rods, they were left inside the water tanks of the power plant. Just another disaster left by the use of nuclear materials. I hope the someday do fix this dangerous problem if they continue to build and use nuclear power.

Some of these dream solutions may become available and be very usefull for the US power needs, but what we have going on now are definitely not the answers.

Oil is today and it is needed to run our cars, trucks, trains, planes, military needs, personal health and comfort. And many more things like our plastic products and materials for housing, pots and pans, windows, and on and on. Stop the oil and we may just stop the way we live altogether.

The future will come when ever it is discovered or invented, but the future is not here yet and demands will not make it happen.

Don M, your last line says a lot. Too much political meddling going on these day.
 
Alternative energy is a long way from replacing fossil fuels...even with all the advancements in recent years. I have a Son-in-law who is an executive for a local solar power company, and they are quite busy installing commercial applications. However, even at his cost, it would cost me thousands of dollars to get off the grid. Wind power is good in some areas...there is a band of the nation from Nebraska through northern Texas that gets pretty steady wind, but much of the rest of the country would not be able to count on wind power reliability. Some of the coastal regions have steady off shore winds, but efforts to put windmills in those areas have met with opposition because "it would spoil the view". Nuclear power has the problem with spent fuel rods. The government spent a fortune to build the Yucca Mountain storage facility in Nevada...then Harry Reid and the environmentalists killed that project.

The ideal would probably be Nuclear Fusion for electrical generation, and Hydrogen power for vehicles. However, both of those methods are still in their infancy, and it will be decades before they become practical...if ever. Nope, like it or not, we are stuck with oil, coal and natural gas for the foreseeable future, and efforts to kill those sources will just impact our lives in a negative, and expensive, fashion. I applaud efforts to reduce consumption, and make fossil fuel a cleaner energy source, but they way some of these people talk, they would shut down all our current sources...and THEY would scream the loudest when living by candlelight and cooking over a campfire.
 
Alternative energy is a long way from replacing fossil fuels...even with all the advancements in recent years. I have a Son-in-law who is an executive for a local solar power company, and they are quite busy installing commercial applications. However, even at his cost, it would cost me thousands of dollars to get off the grid. Wind power is good in some areas...there is a band of the nation from Nebraska through northern Texas that gets pretty steady wind, but much of the rest of the country would not be able to count on wind power reliability. Some of the coastal regions have steady off shore winds, but efforts to put windmills in those areas have met with opposition because "it would spoil the view". Nuclear power has the problem with spent fuel rods. The government spent a fortune to build the Yucca Mountain storage facility in Nevada...then Harry Reid and the environmentalists killed that project.

The ideal would probably be Nuclear Fusion for electrical generation, and Hydrogen power for vehicles. However, both of those methods are still in their infancy, and it will be decades before they become practical...if ever. Nope, like it or not, we are stuck with oil, coal and natural gas for the foreseeable future, and efforts to kill those sources will just impact our lives in a negative, and expensive, fashion. I applaud efforts to reduce consumption, and make fossil fuel a cleaner energy source, but they way some of these people talk, they would shut down all our current sources...and THEY would scream the loudest when living by candlelight and cooking over a campfire.

So what has any of this have to do with the keystone pipeline? None of the oil moving thru it will be for US consumption, but will be exported to China.. and the profits will go to Canada? In fact it may even increase the cost of gas in the States particularly in the Midwest because some of the Canadian oil currently going to Midwest refineries will be diverted to Keystone. Seems like a pretty bad deal all the way around even before you factor in the danger to our water and environment.
 
"So What does this have to do with the Keystone Pipeline"????

This oil IS being moved across our nation on a daily basis. Our refineries in Texas are set up to process this heavy crude...whereas few other places in the world have such capability. Given that "REALITY", it is only Common Sense that this oil should be moved via the safest method...and that is NOT by rail. I'm sure that these refineries are Not processing this oil for Free..so it is supporting some of the better paying jobs left to working people. Even if the finished product is sold to China, or elsewhere, it is one of the few products this nation still has for export..and can only Help our international balance of payments. Now, if this oil wasn't being processed by our refineries, and Instead, the raw product was shipped to China, to be processed by them...can you imagine the added pollution China would be producing...given how they fail to control their coal fired plants??

I doubt we will see any major increase in gas prices for the next couple of years. If you've been keeping up with the news, the oil storage facilities in Texas, Oklahoma and Louisiana are almost filled to capacity, and more storage tanks are being built in Cushing, OK., to hold the huge increase in production. Some of the "experts" are calling for oil commodity prices to drop even further as this glut continues.
 
The Keystone will not benefit Americans at all... It's a waste and a kow-tow to a foreign company.. I'm really glad it didn't pass.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...l-oil-bypasses-the-u-s-earns-four-pinocchios/

[h=3]The Facts[/h] As we have noted before, when the president says “it bypasses the United States,” he leaves out a very important step. The crude oil would travel to the Gulf Coast, where it would be refined into products such as motor gasoline and diesel fuel (known as a distillate fuel in the trade). Current trends suggest that only about half of that refined product would be exported, and it could easily be lower.
 
I guess some feel we need another pipeline carrying potential deadly product. It would greatly help Canada, an oil refiner in Texas and the Chinese, but here is what the potential is for the rest of us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents_in_the_United_States_in_the_21st_century

Yes, I've seen the Wikipedia reports on pipeline accidents, and there have been several. However, in recent years, we are faced with far greater dangers by moving this goo by rail...as evidenced by this recent report....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...carrying-and-spilling-a-record-amount-of-oil/

As I've said before, there is NO 100% safe way to move these kinds of materials...however, doesn't it make sense to chose the least hazardous method???
 


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