Russia has reportedly now used chemical weapons.

IKE

IKE

Well-known Member
Location
Oklahoma....U.S.A.
I think they got caught using them in Afghanistan too. When things don't go their way they show their true colors ie the ends justify their means. Shows desperation but like a cornered animal they are more dangerous now as deadly as they have been.
 
IKE said:
Will the international community now finally get involved militarily or just verbally condemn Russia which seems to have little to no effect ?
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Getting involved would result in gas/oil being shut off, which would greatly affect certain EU countries' economies. Most of whom would blame the USA and weaken NATO. The disgust and horror over the Russian invasion of Ukraine does not seem to extend to one's own pocketbook, IMHO.
 

Ok, phosphorous munitions are not what are properly considered "chemical weapons."


phosphorous munitions create an extremely high temperature...something like 2000 or 4000 degrees. So, they melt metal.

In WWII, when they would try to destroy an enemy artillery piece, they would sometimes toss a phosphorous grenade at the weaponry.

If it was a good toss, it could melt the gun barrel and make the weapon completely inoperable.


Chemical weapons are really things like mustard gas. That is chlorine gas. That was used in WWI. If you spread mustard gas on a battlefield of infantry, you can either kill or severely injure quite a number of soldiers at once. I forget the numbers. I assume it is somewhere between 50 and 500 soldiers at once.

So, phosphorous munitions are not weapons of mass destruction. They may be using them as some kind if implied threat to use actual chemical weapons...like the modern versions of mustard gas. But right now, to my understanding, they haven't used any of those yet.


But, of course, the Russians are full scale murdering tens of thousands of civilians, by directed attack. Every last bit of that are war crimes. Not weapons of mass destruction, but a huge festival of war crimes.

Under some courts, war crimes like that can be punished by death. They are considered killing outside of military purpose. They are considered to be murders.
 
Harry Le Hermit said:
Getting involved would result in gas/oil being shut off, which would greatly affect certain EU countries' economies. Most of whom would blame the USA and weaken NATO. The disgust and horror over the Russian invasion of Ukraine does not seem to extend to one's own pocketbook, IMHO.
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I agree, if Europe just shut off the pipeline, all of Putin's power would end.

I think the world community should get together and develop a plan to do exactly that..with the nations of the world, covering the loss and difficulties of those nations without those resources.
 
JonSR77 said:
I think the world community should get together and develop a plan to do exactly that..with the nations of the world, covering the loss and difficulties of those nations without those resources.
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Unfortunately, it would take a few years to develop the infrastructure to replace natural gas. Oil, might be quicker, but neither is as easy as turning the tap.
 
Harry Le Hermit said:
Unfortunately, it would take a few years to develop the infrastructure to replace natural gas. Oil, might be quicker, but neither is as easy as turning the tap.
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oh, absolutely. would take a massive, massive international effort. Enormous cooperation. Like a D-Day military operation.

But, you know, that might be exactly what is necessary.
 
JonSR77 said:
I agree, if Europe just shut off the pipeline, all of Putin's power would end.

I think the world community should get together and develop a plan to do exactly that..with the nations of the world, covering the loss and difficulties of those nations without those resources.
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Problem is, China won't cooperate
 
garyt1957 said:
Problem is, China won't cooperate
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well, you know, all those things are true.

However, where there is a will, there is a way.

The Allies defeated the Nazis. They seemed impossible to defeat.

What you do is just try...with every effort possible, with your experts looking into new solutions...with your whole effort.

If that is done, the difficulties tend to either fade away or reduce dramatically.

There has to be a way to take Putin down and stop him from eyeing a direct invasion of Europe and all that will entail.

Better we do some austere economic measures than we have to face him down under nuclear threat.
 
I think the most likely scenario is that Putin will slowly back out of Ukraine, maybe making a deal for some territory and this round of warfare will end.

However...when he does that, I think it is likely the West will fall back into complacency and we will re-do this same issue in about 5 years.
 
JonSR77 said:
oh, absolutely. would take a massive, massive international effort. Enormous cooperation. Like a D-Day military operation.
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Let's quantify "international", as Countries representing nearly 1/2 of the global population either voted against or abstained in any condemnation of Russia. France is in the middle of elections and inflation is taking over the political rhetoric and will shove that country into not supporting a ban. Germany has come up with a multi year plan to invest in LNG processing plants, but it appears to be doomed, as the Germans aren't interested in fracked gas. Some of our allies are really not interested in halting gas/oil from Russia.

It should be pointed out that while the discussion is about natural gas/oil, there are many other commodities that are imported from Russia, that can cripple Europe's economy.
 
Harry Le Hermit said:
Let's quantify "international", as Countries representing nearly 1/2 of the global population either voted against or abstained in any condemnation of Russia. France is in the middle of elections and inflation is taking over the political rhetoric and will shove that country into not supporting a ban. Germany has come up with a multi year plan to invest in LNG processing plants, but it appears to be doomed, as the Germans aren't interested in fracked gas. Some of our allies are really not interested in halting gas/oil from Russia.

It should be pointed out that while the discussion is about natural gas/oil, there are many other commodities that are imported from Russia, that can cripple Europe's economy.
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Well, no, the UN vote was 141 nations condemning the invasion and only 4 in favor of Russia's position. and about 35 abstentions, which included China.

Anything can be done, if we set our minds to it.

And the world community needs to set its mind to destroying Putin, until he no longer holds any position of power.
 
He's getting his own soldiers killed by the thousands! He doesn't care about his own people! He is now purging the intelligence community...his closest allies.

If we do not stop him, he could become like Stalin or like Hitler.

And this is no longer some competition between the US and Russia. It isn't even a competition between Europe and Russia.

It is really Putin, versus everyone else. He is destroying Russia too.
 
Whatever happens, we must learn from this and not allow ourselves to be so naive in future. We need to change our whole attitude to other countries and their ideology. Forget globalisation, it simply hasn't worked. We need to strengthen our armies and always keep ourselves prepared for warfare.
At least we had weapons ready to give Ukraine, we were not totally complacent.
 
What I don't get about anyone using chemical is if they are in that area that means they need the equipment, gear and clothing. That's more to carry around. It's tough on the users too. That's what makes this stupid and shows the udder desperation and obession Putin has with his invasion and goals.
 
Lavinia said:
Whatever happens, we must learn from this and not allow ourselves to be so naive in future. We need to change our whole attitude to other countries and their ideology. Forget globalisation, it simply hasn't worked. We need to strengthen our armies and always keep ourselves prepared for warfare.
At least we had weapons ready to give Ukraine, we were not totally complacent.
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...and yet today.... :(

A British volunteer fighter in Ukraine has been captured by Russian troops in the besieged southeastern port city of Mariupol, according to a statement issued on his behalf.
Aiden Aslin, 28, who goes by the name "Johnny", said his unit had tried its best to defend Mariupol but "had no choice but to surrender to Russian forces".
"We have no food and no ammunition.

He said he had started a new life in Ukraine with his fiancee before the invasion - prompting him to stay and fight Vladimir Putin's troops.
He previously volunteered to fight the Islamic State in Syria before moving to Ukraine in 2018, where he served in the country's marines.
Mariupol has been under intense attack by Russian forces for several weeks, with the UK now "working urgently" to confirm reports of a possible chemical attack in the city.
Foreign secretary Liz Truss said any confirmed use of such weapons in Mariupol would be a "callous escalation" of the war.
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Mr Aslin's capture appeared to be supported by other sources who have spoken with him.
One of his friends told Atlas News: "I just spoke with [Aslin]. His unit is out of ammo and food. They have no other option but to surrender. He said he loves you all. He is strong in spirit and showed no weakness at all.
"He is surrendering to Russians which is only slightly better than surrendering to the Chechens. Their commander will be meeting them soon. Please Lord have mercy."
 
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