Is magic real or simply a fairytale?

Mr. Ed

Mr. Ed

Be what you is not what you what you ain’t
Location
Central NY
According to Merriam-Webster dictionary.
We may define magic as use of charms, or spells believed to have supernatural power over natural forces.

An extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source.

Magic is an allusive terminology that seeks to explain the unexplainable. The law of physics state for every action there is a reaction, cause and effect. Magic is the action and reaction of phenomena that does not fit within the natural realm of understanding.

Magic is real because there is no other explanation for it.
 
I do magic shows for my grandkids all the time. They all know I have 'magic'!

That is the only magic I believe in. Except for the magic I see in my wife's eyes and in my kids and grandkids eyes...that is some of the magic the good Lord gave us...
 
Mr. Ed, would you please provide some examples of magic that "is real because there is no other explanation for it." That is, what can someone do that violates the laws of physics or chemistry or electromagnetism, or quantum mechanics, etc.?
 
well, quantum physics says the the vast amount of "matter" is actually space. And that means, under the laws of quantum physics, if atomic structure of a table and a hand lined up just right...one could easily pass a hand through a wooden table.

Now that is not magic, per se. That is just quantum science.

So, one definition of magic could easily be science which is not yet understood.

If one wants to take math and explain things through that, one could take all the ideas of supernatural events and just describe them as the effects of a science, presently unknown.
 
Mr. Ed said:
According to Merriam-Webster dictionary.
We may define magic as use of charms, or spells believed to have supernatural power over natural forces.
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Anyone can believe anything they like, and use spells to effect the results they want.

First, correlation does not mean causation. Second, spells don't work. If they did, I'd be dancing a jig right now. People who cast spells must be using ones that fit well into the correlation/causation dynamic. Because if they used practical spells that show results that are physical, man, think of the opportunities there, assuming they were for the good. By physical, I mean that my kitchen would be spotless all the time. I wouldn't need help moving furniture, my dog's hair would not get tangled if I didn't comb him every day. If someone threatened me, I could take care of them by taking away their power over me (not by killing them).
 
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Yes, magic does exist. Spells, hexes, charms, elemental magic and all of that. There will be a price to pay if you do someone harm. But definitely magic and miracles and celestial beings do exist.

frederick marriott angel.jpg
 
chic said:
Yes, magic does exist. Spells, hexes, charms, elemental magic and all of that. There will be a price to pay if you do someone harm. But definitely magic and miracles and celestial beings do exist.
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I have been looking for evidence of such things for decades. So far, despite much effort, I have found exactly zero evidence that stands up to the slightest scrutiny. I think therefore that it's all nonsense. But perhaps I'm mistaken. Maybe I just missed it.

Could you offer some evidence that "spells, hexes, elemental magic and all of that" actually do anything?
 
@Mr. Ed >>>"...for every action there is a reaction, cause and effect" so IMO Mr talking horse, nopo no magico

When discussing God I make a point, that I suspect he does not exist the way dogma and most believe but rather with limited powers to what is possible though such may seem to be magic to intelligent primitives. And are described by scribes in scripture in more supernatural ways for the sake of their public audience than actually occurred. Also that I do not think the Bible is inerrant and rather is primarily the recording of oral traditions by science primitives of those times though some may actually be inspired by God that I prefer to describe as from a race of Ultimate Intelligent Entities, UIEs. In any case, the truth is unknown and I don't have any supernatural spirits whispering in my ears. Most people do not understand the nature of oral traditions that was how information was passed down during ancient eras.

Most that argue magic or omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence is possible, point to The Bible and God. However when the actual Hebrew is translated, it is obvious priest scribes exaggerated and over centuries, especially during the Middle Ages, that led to unquestioned dogma. Nowhere does the Bible explicitly explain the limits of God's powers. There are obvious reasons Levite priests sects would tend to exaggerate God's possible powers and huge reasons later Christian churches would want their followers to think so.

KJV Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.

The Hebrew word behind "You can do" is תּוּכָ֑ל/tū·ḵāl. This word can mean to overcome, to prevail, to be able to gain or accomplish, to be able to endure, to be victor, to have ability, to have strength, or to be able to reach. In the KJV, as the linked resource above indicates, it is translated in many ways: AV — could 46, able 43, cannot 34, prevail 22, may 16, can 12, canst 5, endure 2, might 2, misc 13

KJV Luke 1:37 ► For with God nothing shall be impossible.

The Hebrew translation is close but as is common, is terse. However logic does not demand that statement mean God can do anything imaginable as it may merely mean God can do anything that is physically possible even with the most powerful and knowledgeable possible science.

Rev 1:8

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

The Hebrew translation of Almighty Παντοκράτωρ is from: Ruler of all, ruler of the universe, the almighty, the all-ruling, i.e. God.

Again logic from that sentence does not imply God can do anything imaginable.
 
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My belief.
As 'man' we are not meant to have the intellect or knowledge to logically understand the existence of God. It is simply beyond us, and I believe that is part of his plan. You see, being able to believe in God has to be something beyond our normal spirit. You have to have 'blind faith' pulled from your observation of the world around you, the Christian faith as you understand it, and something deep inside that cannot be denied.

After all, though this lone act you are promised eternal life.
 
raybar said:
I have been looking for evidence of such things for decades. So far, despite much effort, I have found exactly zero evidence that stands up to the slightest scrutiny. I think therefore that it's all nonsense. But perhaps I'm mistaken. Maybe I just missed it.

Could you offer some evidence that "spells, hexes, elemental magic and all of that" actually do anything?
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I don't have any peer reviewed documents if that's what you demand. 🤣
 
Of course magic is real, lots of very talented magicians out there, excellent slight of hand and the like.

And I am sure that spells and hexes have very real effects. Based on suggestion perhaps, but real none the less.

Visited Marie Laveau's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Laveau) grave once long ago, it even gave me, a non-believer a bit of a chill. I am sure it, and things of that sort have very real effects on lots of people.

This has an interesting science based explanation of voodoo hexes: https://www.csuci.edu/writing-ci/guide/samples/documents/histanthrosample2.pdf
 
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I didn’t say “magic is real because there is no other explanation for it.” You said that, Mr. Ed. It is the last sentence in Posting #1 of this thread.

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The word “magic” brings two things to mind.

One is a “magic show” like you would see in Las Vegas. The entire audience knows that they are seeing illusions and tricks. Everyone knows that the magician did not really cut his assistant in half and that she did not really vanish when she stepped into the magic box. Everyone knows that David Copperfield did not really make the Statue of Liberty disappear.

There is no mystery here. The magician has no special powers. He is just a performer fooling the audience into thinking he has done he has not done.

The other thing brought to mind by the word magic is the idea of a magician or sorcerer or witch somehow making things happen in violation of the laws of nature. Here the magician does have special powers which the rest of us do not have. Here the magician does do impossible things, as if he is a god who can influence the laws of physics through the power of his mind, or by chanting special words, or burning some secret incense.

To my knowledge, there is exactly zero evidence that such “magic” has ever happened. There is not the slightest hint that magic might even be possible. There is no mystery that would be solved if only magic were real.

Now, Mr. Ed, in Posting #18 you say that “magic is as real as one believes it is,” and offer a song about emotional response to music, as if an emotional response to something constitutes magic.

I’m confused. I do not know what you’re talking about.

Would you please define the word “magic” as you are using it here.
 
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Yes, what exactly do you mean by 'magic'? Stage tricks are just illusions. Harry Potter type spells could be defined as magic. The trouble is, that all is energy, and if it is possible to control that energy, then what is regarded as magic could happen. The mind has untapped power which can in some people, control inanimate objects. Psychokinesis is the ability to move an object, using the mind. Is that magic?
 
Lavinia said:
Yes, what exactly do you mean by 'magic'? Stage tricks are just illusions. Harry Potter type spells could be defined as magic. The trouble is, that all is energy, and if it is possible to control that energy, then what is regarded as magic could happen. The mind has untapped power which can in some people, control inanimate objects. Psychokinesis is the ability to move an object, using the mind. Is that magic?
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Psychokinesis has been proven to also be magic. And phony, too.
 
Magic amazes me. These magicians can do these tricks right in front of me and they will even do them slowly sometimes and I still end up amazed in how they do them. They are so quick with their hands they are absolutely amazing.
 
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