Newly found human foot prints rewrite history

Vida May said:
In another forum discussing souls, I came to wonder if Neanderthals and ‎the Denisovans, and other species of pre-homospians had souls?
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And what is the soul? Do only humans have souls? Because we are the most dominant animal species on the planet?

Does it have to do with self-awareness? In that case, many other primate species, elephants, dolphins and others would qualify.

Koko (1971-2018) was a gorilla who understood approximately 2,000 words of spoken English, in addition to sign language. Koko's life and learning process has been described by in books, peer-reviewed scientific articles, and on a website. She understood nouns, verbs, and adjectives, including abstract concepts like "good" and "fake", and was able to ask simple questions. IQ was estimated to be at least 70. By contrast, profoundly retarded humans have an IQ as low as 50. Normal human range is 70 to 130.

If you have ever looked into the eyes of a chimpanzee, as I have done, it is a rather eerie experience. There is something in there looking back at you. Much different than looking into the eyes of my dog.

Intelligence is a human defined term. If you define it from the dolphins’ standpoint, for example, they are far more adapted to their natural environment than most human beings. (A naked human being thrown into the wild somewhere would be dead in short order.)

So if the human soul survives death, then surely so must that of Koko and species with self-awareness such as chimps, dolphins, and elephants and probably others. Human defined intelligence is a spectrum; we just happen to be at the top.
 

Lewkat said:
I love reading about archaeological digs and the findings. Heaven knows if we could get some really good digs in along the Mid-Atlantic area of the U.S. what we would really find of ancient life. It is though that Phoenicians actually landed here at one point, so perhaps there's so much more to be learned.
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There are many mysteries to think about. The following quote is about halfway from the beginning.
America’s Stonehenge, Salem, New Hampshire

On a hilltop in New Hampshire near the Massachusetts border is an archaeological site called America’s Stonehenge. This 30-acre site in Salem, New Hampshire, is the largest collection of stone structures in North America, consisting of standing stones, stone walls, cairns, natural caves, horizontal stone slabs, rock circles, and stone chambers, has long puzzled archaeologists, astronomers, and historians. https://www.legendsofamerica.com/new-england-stone-chambers/
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spectratg said:
And what is the soul? Do only humans have souls? Because we are the most dominant animal species on the planet?

Does it have to do with self-awareness? In that case, many other primate species, elephants, dolphins and others would qualify.

Koko (1971-2018) was a gorilla who understood approximately 2,000 words of spoken English, in addition to sign language. Koko's life and learning process has been described by in books, peer-reviewed scientific articles, and on a website. She understood nouns, verbs, and adjectives, including abstract concepts like "good" and "fake", and was able to ask simple questions. IQ was estimated to be at least 70. By contrast, profoundly retarded humans have an IQ as low as 50. Normal human range is 70 to 130.

If you have ever looked into the eyes of a chimpanzee, as I have done, it is a rather eerie experience. There is something in there looking back at you. Much different than looking into the eyes of my dog.

Intelligence is a human defined term. If you define it from the dolphins’ standpoint, for example, they are far more adapted to their natural environment than most human beings. (A naked human being thrown into the wild somewhere would be dead in short order.)

So if the human soul survives death, then surely so must that of Koko and species with self-awareness such as chimps, dolphins, and elephants and probably others. Human defined intelligence is a spectrum; we just happen to be at the top.
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You asked a very interesting question! Is self-awareness a requirement for having a soul? That question pushes my philosophical button and recalls Aristotle's thoughts about things like virtues and human behavior.
 

Vida May said:
In another forum discussing souls, I came to wonder if Neanderthals and ‎the Denisovans, and other species of pre-homospians had souls?
Click to expand...
i have no doubt they did. But then for me what most people call a 'soul' is our eternal consciousness which is connected to Universal Consciousness. Also on those online spirituality quizzes i usually get labeled 'pagan' because i believe other animals have 'souls' as well. But that's just me.
 
Vida May said:
You asked a very interesting question! Is self-awareness a requirement for having a soul? That question pushes my philosophical button and recalls Aristotle's thoughts about things like virtues and human behavior.
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Yea we just happen to be an evolved animal species that is the apex predator on the planet right now. The dinosaurs ruled the Earth for almost 200 million years. Homo sapiens has only been around in our present form for about 200 thousand, or 1/10 of 1 percent as long. At the rate we are destroying the planet, we won't make it much longer.
 
Vida May said:
In another forum discussing souls, I came to wonder if Neanderthals and ‎the Denisovans, and other species of pre-homospians had souls?
Click to expand...

St. Francis of Assisi (and many other saints) loved animals very dearly. I don't think he would have showed them that kind of affection if they did not have souls. So, if animals have souls, why wouldn't early hominids and parallel species to modern man, have them also?

As to whether those souls were spiritually the same as Cro-Magnon / modern man? Well, that is a good question, I guess. I can't see any possibility that anyone is going to know the answer to that.

The entire amount of Neanderthal bones, ever found, in the entire world, could fit in the back of one pick-up truck. We still really know very little about Neanderthals.... and Denisovans even less.

I believe there is evidence of funeral rites among Neanderthals.

At the same time, many species of animals seem to have some understanding of death and of dying. Animals will surround a dying friend, in comfort and sympathy. And when an animal passes, other animals close to that one, will often exhibit behaviors that seem to indicate some awareness of death.
 
also, re Neanderthal...and this I have on an authority I respect..

just horrible internet access back in those days...

Old dial-up, clunky desktops with low memory and low speed, hard to keep those old models free from dust in the caves...

Paint program was pretty decent for cave art though...
 
feywon said:
i have no doubt they did. But then for me what most people call a 'soul' is our eternal consciousness which is connected to Universal Consciousness. Also on those online spirituality quizzes i usually get labeled 'pagan' because i believe other animals have 'souls' as well. But that's just me.
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John Edwards is a medium who had a TV show where he demonstrated his ability to connect with those who have crossed over. He has spoken of pets that have crossed over and are with their owners who also crossed over.

I am unashamedly pagan. That is a whole different subject. But I am not sure that the whole of reality is not animated. That is, I am not a pure materialist, believing everything is matter. It is all energy that takes form.
 
Vida May said:
John Edwards is a medium who had a TV show where he demonstrated his ability to connect with those who have crossed over. He has spoken of pets that have crossed over and are with their owners who also crossed over.

I am unashamedly pagan. That is a whole different subject. But I am not sure that the whole of reality is not animated. That is, I am not a pure materialist, believing everything is matter. It is all energy that takes form.
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Well aware of Edwards. Our Pekinese was with us in 1995 when we cared for my Dad when he was terminally ill. While he'd generally had hunting dogs, she was so smart and sweet he loved her within days. Fast forward a decade or so she was ill, kidney failure. As i was agonizing over what was best for her. Dad came to me and said "I'll meet her and look after her."

If you haven't already you might want to check out the couple of thread that exist about such things. We revive them periodically.
 
Vida May said:
John Edwards is a medium who had a TV show where he demonstrated his ability to connect with those who have crossed over. He has spoken of pets that have crossed over and are with their owners who also crossed over.

I am unashamedly pagan. That is a whole different subject. But I am not sure that the whole of reality is not animated. That is, I am not a pure materialist, believing everything is matter. It is all energy that takes form.
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I believe in mediums. Not all. I think there are plenty of scammers out there. But I think there are real ones also. I had a personal encounter with a real one.

I was with an arts group. We ran various kinds of shows. We also worked with some of the local towns when they had street fairs, arranging performance stages and such.

So, there was a street fair that we were involved with. I was walking past some of the vendors with a friend, just checking up on everything. My friend was in college studying psychology. She was definitely not a believer.

So, anyway, we passed by the store that was owned by a psychic. She was outside at her table. As we walked past, she ran over to us. Without saying a word, she put her hand on my friend's belly. She paused a second and said, out loud, "Mommy! I want my Mommy!"

Needless to say, my friend and I were quite scared out of our freakin' wits at this.

Without anyone saying a word, my friend and I just walked on. When we got about 100 yards away, my friend said to me...
"Jon...when I was a little kid, my mother would be gone for long periods of time. And I would miss her terribly. I would miss her so bad, that I used to get a pain in my side. I got that pain, right where the psychic lady touched me."

Saw that with my own eyes.

Also, back in the 90s a more unusual article appeared in a Jersey paper. It was honoring the passing of this woman from Nutley, NJ.

She had been a psychic, working with the FBI for some 20 years or more. The thing about it was that it was a mainstream article, in a mainstream newspaper. And, you know, that is not the kind of subject that the FBI really promotes. I think that she helped them solve so many crimes, that they broke protocol and wanted to honor her publicly for stopping so much crime.

Also, I think psychic phenomena is just an experience. I do not think it is necessarily some kind of amazing experience to which we should aspire. I just think it is different. Personally, I think deep feelings of love and compassion are far more spiritual and far more important than these kind of supernatural phenomena.

The Sufi poet and mystic, Rumi, commented about this...and in quite a humorous way. He mocked people's fascination with psychic phenomena, by saying something quite sarcastic and funny. I forgot it verbatim, but it was something like...

"Oh, that guy..oh, sure he is spiritual. He is so spiritual, that he can tell whether a donkey or a dog passed wind, from 500 yards away..."
 
JonSR77 said:
I believe in mediums. Not all. I think there are plenty of scammers out there. But I think there are real ones also. I had a personal encounter with a real one.

I was with an arts group. We ran various kinds of shows. We also worked with some of the local towns when they had street fairs, arranging performance stages and such.

So, there was a street fair that we were involved with. I was walking past some of the vendors with a friend, just checking up on everything. My friend was in college studying psychology. She was definitely not a believer.

So, anyway, we passed by the store that was owned by a psychic. She was outside at her table. As we walked past, she ran over to us. Without saying a word, she put her hand on my friend's belly. She paused a second and said, out loud, "Mommy! I want my Mommy!"

Needless to say, my friend and I were quite scared out of our freakin' wits at this.

Without anyone saying a word, my friend and I just walked on. When we got about 100 yards away, my friend said to me...
"Jon...when I was a little kid, my mother would be gone for long periods of time. And I would miss her terribly. I would miss her so bad, that I used to get a pain in my side. I got that pain, right where the psychic lady touched me."

Saw that with my own eyes.

Also, back in the 90s a more unusual article appeared in a Jersey paper. It was honoring the passing of this woman from Nutley, NJ.

She had been a psychic, working with the FBI for some 20 years or more. The thing about it was that it was a mainstream article, in a mainstream newspaper. And, you know, that is not the kind of subject that the FBI really promotes. I think that she helped them solve so many crimes, that they broke protocol and wanted to honor her publicly for stopping so much crime.

Also, I think psychic phenomena is just an experience. I do not think it is necessarily some kind of amazing experience to which we should aspire. I just think it is different. Personally, I think deep feelings of love and compassion are far more spiritual and far more important than these kind of supernatural phenomena.

The Sufi poet and mystic, Rumi, commented about this...and in quite a humorous way. He mocked people's fascination with psychic phenomena, by saying something quite sarcastic and funny. I forgot it verbatim, but it was something like...

"Oh, that guy..oh, sure he is spiritual. He is so spiritual, that he can tell whether a donkey or a dog passed wind, from 500 yards away..."
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I think there are things we do not know. Everything is energy and our ability to perceive energy is limited.
 
Ken N Tx said:
I wonder why they would be in New Mexico??
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Do you mean why the humans were there or why the foot prints were preserved?

https://www.nps.gov/whsa/learn/nature/fossilized-footprints.htm This link has nice pictures and explains why humans were there.

This is what happened at White Sands to preserve the footprints.

In the Tularosa Basin, lake levels dropped dramatically during D-O 2, exposing an expansive lake margin. Humans and megafauna then walked across the patchwork of wet and dry ground, leaving behind footprints and trackways that were preserved in multiple sediment layers over the course of time. https://www.usgs.gov/programs/clima...news/discovery-ancient-human-footprints-white
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