OneEyedDiva
SF VIP
- Location
- New Jersey
You're welcome!
A Conversation about the Homeless
- Thread starter dseag2
- Start date
Jamala
Senior Member
- Location
- Butterfly from Herts/UK
Before we start sweeping the homeless off the streets, take time to find out why they are there. Providing sandwiches, a cup of soup or a cup of coffee is not the answer. This is only a momentary fix.
The answer is hounding local authorities to help, petitioning and helping in real and tangible ways.
The answer is hounding local authorities to help, petitioning and helping in real and tangible ways.
Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
SeniorBen
Senior Member
That sounds an awful lot like a commune, which is communism and un-American! Just wait until Glenn Beck hears about your proposal!
That said, I agree 100%. If I ever became destitute, I would welcome a "camp" like that to help me get back on my feet much more than a homeless shelter and food lines. It would allow me to maintain my dignity and provide a bit of security.
rwb
Member
- Location
- South Carolina
What you illustrated above is a lot more common than most people are willing to accept, unfortunately. One of the reasons I am very skeptical about donating to the so called "needy" . I live in the Myrtle Beach , SC area and hundreds of businesses are constantly advertising for help. Yet on many corners of plazas and strip malls are young or middle age "homeless" men and women with signs asking for handouts and unable to make ends meet. Why they don't apply for a job is beyond me - maybe they could not pass a drug test, or there are lazy - who knows. True, some are in desperate need, but many are just scammers!! Since I can't tell, I do not contribute.
JustDave
Well-known Member
I occasionally give a few bucks to a street person, but only if they ask, and in a way that makes me feel like I can help, rather than be used. I don't mean crawling and begging. Sometimes I just sense their need. Once I gave money to a couple of guys that said they needed it to buy booze. We all laughed at the situation. I appreciated their honestly, but mostly I was taken off guard, and just thought, "Oh, what the Hell!"
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Remy
Well-known Member
- Location
- California, USA
And I've heard Florida is a rent raising nightmare. I'm not talking much to my brother but his daughter had her rent raised 300 dollars and I think she's in North Carolina so she went and bought a townhouse. I'm impressed, at her relatively young age, she had the insight to do that.
I just heard yesterday that the cause of the Mosquito fire in California is being looked at as caused by PG&E. They also have a frequent guest on San Francisco newstalk who hates PG&E and states Governor Newsom is in their pocket and I believe it. All crooks.
Remy
Well-known Member
- Location
- California, USA
How in the world is any of this going to be changed? I can't figure it out. I hear it discussed a lot on the newstalk station I mention but then nothing is done. The hosts and guests are all housed and employees.
All these people voted into office could care less.
Remy
Well-known Member
- Location
- California, USA
My question is how we do that?
oldaunt
professional hermit
You should know that a lot of homeless people actually HAVE jobs, and many are on SS or disabiity, vets benefits and such, but it just isn't enough to afford housing if they want to actually eat.
Been There
Well-known Member
- Location
- Florida
Yes, I am one of the suckers that will give these people money. Yesterday, while leaving my grocery store there was a woman maybe in her late 30’s with 2 children holding a sign asking for help. I parked my vehicle and had a conversation with her. Her story was very sad and I wasn’t sure if she was for real or not, but I donated $20 to her and told her good luck. On the way home, I thought about her story and I kept picturing the little girl playing on the blacktop and lining up stones for whatever purpose. The little boy stood beside his mom. I went back and donated another $20.
Remy
Well-known Member
- Location
- California, USA
This is a problem, but I see none with power doing anything to solve this. I could write to the powers all day and it would do no good. I don't know what to do.
Awhile back a low income apartment place opened up in San Francisco and it was mentioned for 3 days in the news and radio hosts talking about it. OK, it's good thing, but one building isn't going to solve the crisis for the people on the street and those like me who worry I'll be one.
The fact that they went on about it for 3 days, shows what an anomaly it actually was.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
The US west coast is in a difficult predicament. Generous services, a liberal government, tolerant residents, and weather that's survivable for outdoor living all contribute to the disproportionate number of homeless here. This is a national problem and should be addressed as such. Simply throwing money at it doesn't seem to stem the tide.
Even when laws are passed to limit or discourage homeless encampments, federal district courts overturn them. Bottom line: it's not illegal to be homeless.
As anyone who's read many of my posts knows I'm extremely liberal political, but my heart has hardened on this issue. Police officer friends as well as recovering addicts and formerly homeless (but now stable) folks almost unilaterally STRONGLY recommend against giving cash to homeless people. Sure, give them food - assuming they in fact want it - but professionals repeatedly emphasize that handing over cash perpetuates street living, delays mental health, drug and alcohol recovery, and enables survival on the fringes .
Begging isn't - or shouldn't be - a job in the US. Other employment is available (help wanted signs are everywhere) and shelter beds go unused every night. Many who sincerely want to climb out of homelessness can do so, but they might need to follow rules and give up drugs, alcohol or pets in the process.
In life, almost nothing worth having comes without sacrifice.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
IMO, issues that are causing homelessness can be fixed, however those with the power to do so are controlled by wealthy with political and media powers. For instance, a significant factor the last decade has been excessively rising housing and rental costs. After the 2008 financial bust, disgustingly bailed out guilty Wall Street began intensely advertising to the rest of the world's wealthy to invest in REIT's. In West Coast states laws were passed that allowed foreigners to buy our real estate and if above a threshold dollar amount were allowed to move into such residences with extended families, no questions asked. The threshold was lowered twice to benefit real estate and financial corps. British Columbia finally created laws crimping that practice, while the US has done everything to avoid talking about it.
There is a massive industry below their Wall Street masters of small players and fix-it-uppers, banks and other financial institutions lend money to in order to buy up homes and they then jack up prices and rents on that they then sell a few years later to like others banks also then lend to. So an ever increasing cost system screwing we working folk wherever job pressures exist. Many of these powerful REITs groups have been viciously without conscience, buying up mobile home parks from mom and pop owners, the only residences where our poorest people and seniors over decades have been able to buy homes they could own. These dog eat dog minded then jack rents up that puts such vulnerable folks out on streets without alternatives. In fact, arrogant REITs advertise to investors especially foreigners how because these folks rent the land they are stuck on without similar alternatives to move to, so they are prey without power to do anything.
Politicians always deflect solutions to discussions of "rent control" knowing such has little chance of being acceptable but allows them to flap their lips like it isn't their fault. Even more whine about the "need for more housing" and then allow builders to build by far only expensive homes except a few at the low end, laws force them to add, using the lame excuse they need to in order to make profits as costs are too high. Duh, duh triple duhhh! Wall Street corps quietly donate to politicians to ignore immigration laws creating effective open borders in order to keep wages low enough they can compete with other countries on products (especially farm products) as well as providing an endlessly growing market for retail corporations of low end consumer products. That immigration greatest at the low end, brings in myriad poor folk that compete with native born poor often little skilled folk in jobs and housing they end up having to live in awkwardly with high numbers per residence. That pushes our own poor people into more expensive than they need middle class housing that in turn pushes middle class into the expensive properties builders are only building. Just like our predatory real estate corporations and their financial institutions want it.
Our poor and low skilled American people compete at low end jobs with immigrants willing to except minimum wages, our poor hardly have incentive to fill instead choose to exist on social handouts and worse criminal property crimes that plague our defenseless middle class urban areas. Of course, visa overstays also allow wealthy foreigners to move right in with states bending over backwards to allow them to assimilate into our overpopulated nation, no questions asked. And our public schools are so hamstrung by various advocates whining about freedoms, that trying to raise our poor out of ignorance and depths of poverty is futile while on the other hand our universities cater to wealthy foreigners educating them with technologies and science my generation built that then become outsourced and offshored.
And what about all these chronic homeless in our large urban cities with drug, psychological, unwilling to work, crime issues that refuse services? Our legal system via advocates and judges prevents cities from forcing them to do anything except they then use as an excuse for allowing flawed status quos to continue. Well Einstein in our supposed system, politicians are able to change laws and policies if they are not working or some judge declares there is no law to force them to. If low end criminals need incentive, make them spend jail time where they will be uncomfortable and not want to return to. Places too warm without AC, too cool, no tv, boring food, etc.
What about the psychological ill? Our whole society ought address such regardless of cost or decrease in freedoms. If the wealthy that end up paying for it don't like it, maybe they will have incentive to change things that cause such. Our highway roadsides and cities have become cesspools of litter and trash. We need far more clean and maintained public restrooms, public drinking fountains, free public trash cans and dumpsters. Put our unemployed to work there. It worked in the depression of the 1930s and can work now. If our wealthy don't like it maybe they could consider changing our society and culture with anti-litter campaigns like when I grew up instead of ignoring it all. There also ought be places outside our core urban areas where poor without residences can temporarily live in vehicles with supporting restroom, water, and trash facilities supported by fees they are charged and services they are forced to use in order to raise themselves up enough to move into permanent residences.
This senior is no authority on the above tersely mentioned issues nor spends much time reading or thinking about such issues except to occasionally add my frustrated critical 2 cents. Like a twig of flotsam floating down the enormous Mississippi River, long ago I realized I had little influence on powers in a world dominated by those of ignorant and flawed low intelligence, so for the sake of enjoying my own brief existence of life ought limit involvement.
There is a massive industry below their Wall Street masters of small players and fix-it-uppers, banks and other financial institutions lend money to in order to buy up homes and they then jack up prices and rents on that they then sell a few years later to like others banks also then lend to. So an ever increasing cost system screwing we working folk wherever job pressures exist. Many of these powerful REITs groups have been viciously without conscience, buying up mobile home parks from mom and pop owners, the only residences where our poorest people and seniors over decades have been able to buy homes they could own. These dog eat dog minded then jack rents up that puts such vulnerable folks out on streets without alternatives. In fact, arrogant REITs advertise to investors especially foreigners how because these folks rent the land they are stuck on without similar alternatives to move to, so they are prey without power to do anything.
Politicians always deflect solutions to discussions of "rent control" knowing such has little chance of being acceptable but allows them to flap their lips like it isn't their fault. Even more whine about the "need for more housing" and then allow builders to build by far only expensive homes except a few at the low end, laws force them to add, using the lame excuse they need to in order to make profits as costs are too high. Duh, duh triple duhhh! Wall Street corps quietly donate to politicians to ignore immigration laws creating effective open borders in order to keep wages low enough they can compete with other countries on products (especially farm products) as well as providing an endlessly growing market for retail corporations of low end consumer products. That immigration greatest at the low end, brings in myriad poor folk that compete with native born poor often little skilled folk in jobs and housing they end up having to live in awkwardly with high numbers per residence. That pushes our own poor people into more expensive than they need middle class housing that in turn pushes middle class into the expensive properties builders are only building. Just like our predatory real estate corporations and their financial institutions want it.
Our poor and low skilled American people compete at low end jobs with immigrants willing to except minimum wages, our poor hardly have incentive to fill instead choose to exist on social handouts and worse criminal property crimes that plague our defenseless middle class urban areas. Of course, visa overstays also allow wealthy foreigners to move right in with states bending over backwards to allow them to assimilate into our overpopulated nation, no questions asked. And our public schools are so hamstrung by various advocates whining about freedoms, that trying to raise our poor out of ignorance and depths of poverty is futile while on the other hand our universities cater to wealthy foreigners educating them with technologies and science my generation built that then become outsourced and offshored.
And what about all these chronic homeless in our large urban cities with drug, psychological, unwilling to work, crime issues that refuse services? Our legal system via advocates and judges prevents cities from forcing them to do anything except they then use as an excuse for allowing flawed status quos to continue. Well Einstein in our supposed system, politicians are able to change laws and policies if they are not working or some judge declares there is no law to force them to. If low end criminals need incentive, make them spend jail time where they will be uncomfortable and not want to return to. Places too warm without AC, too cool, no tv, boring food, etc.
What about the psychological ill? Our whole society ought address such regardless of cost or decrease in freedoms. If the wealthy that end up paying for it don't like it, maybe they will have incentive to change things that cause such. Our highway roadsides and cities have become cesspools of litter and trash. We need far more clean and maintained public restrooms, public drinking fountains, free public trash cans and dumpsters. Put our unemployed to work there. It worked in the depression of the 1930s and can work now. If our wealthy don't like it maybe they could consider changing our society and culture with anti-litter campaigns like when I grew up instead of ignoring it all. There also ought be places outside our core urban areas where poor without residences can temporarily live in vehicles with supporting restroom, water, and trash facilities supported by fees they are charged and services they are forced to use in order to raise themselves up enough to move into permanent residences.
This senior is no authority on the above tersely mentioned issues nor spends much time reading or thinking about such issues except to occasionally add my frustrated critical 2 cents. Like a twig of flotsam floating down the enormous Mississippi River, long ago I realized I had little influence on powers in a world dominated by those of ignorant and flawed low intelligence, so for the sake of enjoying my own brief existence of life ought limit involvement.
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oldaunt
professional hermit
""""they might need to follow rules and give up drugs, alcohol or pets in the process. """"
You think asking someone to give up a pet, which is probably the only friend they have, to use a shelter, is ok?
You think asking someone to give up a pet, which is probably the only friend they have, to use a shelter, is ok?
JaniceM
Well-known Member
- Location
- still lost between two shores..
I'm with you on that, 100%. It really isn't fair. And it's much different than telling people they can't use drugs/alcohol.
ElCastor
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern CA
I live 20 minutes from San Francisco. There are parts of the city I wouldn‘t park a car or set foot. I wouldn’t know about urine, but sidewalks littered with turds - yuk! My son-in-law, a San Francisco police officer, patrolled Market Street, a main drag. His greatest frustration was a supply of free hotel voutures he carried. The streets and alleys he patrolled were littered with homeless, and he couldn’t give those voutures away.
Remy
Well-known Member
- Location
- California, USA
I'm liberal myself @StarSong and I agree with your post except the pet part. I do believe those pallet shelters that were on the news in my town were accepting of pets. Unless there is an aggressive dog or something which should never be tolerated anywhere.
I could start getting SS and spend my savings down with the hope of getting a low income apartment in the future but I worry about the pet issue. I don't want someone telling me I can't have two cats. I'd never get rid of a pet.
I could start getting SS and spend my savings down with the hope of getting a low income apartment in the future but I worry about the pet issue. I don't want someone telling me I can't have two cats. I'd never get rid of a pet.
Remy
Well-known Member
- Location
- California, USA
Just wow!
I think this speaks to the point that it needs to be multidisciplinary services provided. From medical to mental health to housing help. But nah, we don't do that. Too busy letting a foreign investor buy up that property. Thanks legislators.
ElCastor
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern CA
California had a series of state hospitals for the mentally I’ll and addicted - Napa, Agnews, etc. Many years ago a decision was made to close most of these and open a series of half way houses in bigger cities where former inmates could receive treatment and be transitioned. It was a disaster. The former inmates didn’t like the rules and bailed out in favor of parks and alleys.Just wow!
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Don M.
SF VIP
- Location
- central Missouri
Years ago, most metro areas had several "Mental" hospitals. Then, they started to be known as "insane asylums", which raised the Ire of the Politically Correct, and they started shutting down. Now there are few facilities dedicated to those issues, so those who suffer are left to fend for themselves....on the streets.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
I knew that would be controversial when I wrote it. No, it's not necessarily "fair," but it might be necessary. Many dorm-type homeless shelters and temporary housing units aren't conducive to sheltering animals while attempting to get homeless people on their feet. Perhaps foster care could be arranged for pets while people are getting themselves together.
I guess the question is whether it's better to leave people on the streets so they can keep their animals, or better to tell them they have to give up their animals - at least for a while - so they can pull themselves together?
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ElCastor
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern CA
Those mentally ill bailed out of the halfway houses created to aid them -- didn't like the rules. They retreated to parks and alleys where they could drink and do drugs as they pleased.
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