A Conversation about the Homeless

Jamala said:
If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? – 1 John 3:17
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Nothing wrong with citing the New Testament, but this is a complex problem involving mental health, drug policy, and the rights of individuals versus the rights of communities. If we could solve the problem by handing money to homeless people we would do so. Unfortunately, handing money to a drug addict or someone suffering from schizophrenia does more harm than good.
 

JimBob1952 said:
Nothing wrong with citing the New Testament, but this is a complex problem involving mental health, drug policy, and the rights of individuals versus the rights of communities. If we could solve the problem by handing money to homeless people we would do so. Unfortunately, handing money to a drug addict or someone suffering from schizophrenia does more harm than good.
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It is a complex problem, I agree and I appreciate your civilised reply.
 
StarSong said:
Far too many people were committed in mental institutions against their will and were ultimately discovered to be perfectly sane, which is why the laws were changed to make it more difficult. Political correctness had nothing to do with it.

"Incarcerating" (your word) people in mental institutions for unspecified amounts of time, forcing drugs that keep them in a stupor (so they're easier to manage), and providing no easy path for them to get themselves released, is indeed a civil rights violation. God help anyone in that situation if their family and the institution are hell bent on keeping them institutionalized.

Psychiatric false imprisonments still happen, but much less so than in the 50s & 60s when divorces were difficult to obtain. Back then plenty of women were committed by "caring" husbands whose main goals were getting the wife out of the picture so they could play around with new girlfriends.

Mind you, I'm not against involuntary commitment to mental institutions in some cases, but rolling laws back to pre1980s isn't a good answer.
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I wouldn’t pretend to have an answer, but what is the answer?Open sale and use of illegal drugs, camping in alleys, and defecation on the sidewalk doesn‘t have a lot of appeal, at least for me.
 
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Jamala said:
I appreciate what you are saying, but I have this dream which I hope can be turned into reality that the homeless can be found homes and not have to "move on" or live in doorways. Everyone has the right to food and shelter.
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Me too. My point was that people in government aren't getting it done...but I might have got hung up on grammar or some other little distraction. I don't know how to solve that, though. How do we get them to listen? Start a major protest on behalf of the homeless? Only vote for politicians who talk about it? Only vote 3rd-party? Stop voting all together? Homeless people themselves are too depressed, too drunk or loaded, or too resigned to demand changes in policy.

There are a few organizations dedicated to the "needs of the homeless", but it seems they only focus on food and blankets and stuff, not actual solutions.
 
Murrmurr said:
Me too. My point was that people in government aren't getting it done...but I might have got hung up on grammar or some other little distraction. I don't know how to solve that, though. How do we get them to listen? Start a major protest on behalf of the homeless? Only vote for politicians who talk about it? Only vote 3rd-party? Stop voting all together? Homeless people themselves are too depressed, too drunk or loaded, or too resigned to demand changes in policy.

There are a few organizations dedicated to the "needs of the homeless", but it seems they only focus on food and blankets and stuff, not actual solutions.
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If there were an easy solution the problem wouldn't exist. State, federal and local governments, charities large and small, and private parties have all taken stabs at this with virtually no long-term widespread success.

Sure, some cities with a couple of hundred or even a couple of thousand homeless have mostly gotten people off the streets, but scaling it up to tens of thousands has yet to be successful. There's a limit to how many homeless people a city can absorb and accommodate, particularly when three new homeless arrive as one gets squared away with.
 
StarSong said:
If there were an easy solution the problem wouldn't exist. State, federal and local governments, charities large and small, and private parties have all taken stabs at this with virtually no long-term widespread success.

Sure, some cities with a couple of hundred or even a couple of thousand homeless have mostly gotten people off the streets, but scaling it up to tens of thousands has yet to be successful. There's a limit to how many homeless people a city can absorb and accommodate, particularly when three new homeless arrive as one gets squared away with.
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Californians have invested billions over the past several years, believing the state's promises that they finally had the ultimate solution (*this time*). And the solution sounded great; a coordinated and very professional program of rehab, rehouse, employ/educate/or train, and follow their progress for a year; but the bulk of the money goes somewhere else every time. After planners and designers, contractors, property owners and managers, coordinators and administrators all get their (inflated) share, there's never enough left to actually build something and implement the program.

At least one of those homeless charities (one that I know of) was set up by the state with some few thousand bucks left over from one of their $billion schemes, and that charity has been paying more to state organizers and administrators than to the needs of homeless people. Last year, 12 meals were delivered to one of our local homeless camps where hundreds live. The charity dropped off 12 meals, brushed off their hands, and walked away feeling great. Our tax-dollars hard at work.

Styrofoam meals is not what's needed. Rehab, rehouse, employ/educate/or train, and follow their progress for a year is what's needed, before it's too late (their numbers keep growing).
 
Murrmurr said:
Me too. My point was that people in government aren't getting it done...but I might have got hung up on grammar or some other little distraction. I don't know how to solve that, though. How do we get them to listen? Start a major protest on behalf of the homeless? Only vote for politicians who talk about it? Only vote 3rd-party? Stop voting all together? Homeless people themselves are too depressed, too drunk or loaded, or too resigned to demand changes in policy.

There are a few organizations dedicated to the "needs of the homeless", but it seems they only focus on food and blankets and stuff, not actual solutions.
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It has been several years, but I once read about one solution to a life without work. A woman was arrested after it was discovered that she chained her daughter to a bed whenever she left the apartment. Why? It seems the daughter wanted to get pregnant so she would qualify for a project apartment like her girl friends.
 
Murrmurr said:
Me too. My point was that people in government aren't getting it done...but I might have got hung up on grammar or some other little distraction. I don't know how to solve that, though. How do we get them to listen? Start a major protest on behalf of the homeless? Only vote for politicians who talk about it? Only vote 3rd-party? Stop voting all together? Homeless people themselves are too depressed, too drunk or loaded, or too resigned to demand changes in policy.

There are a few organizations dedicated to the "needs of the homeless", but it seems they only focus on food and blankets and stuff, not actual solutions.
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Probably because food & blankets are cheap, compared to housing.
 
ElCastor said:
It has been several years, but I once read about one solution to a life without work. A woman was arrested after it was discovered that she chained her daughter to a bed whenever she left the apartment. Why? It seems the daughter wanted to get pregnant so she would qualify for a project apartment like her girl friends.
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I'm gonna guess the mom didn't leave the apartment to go to work or school.

I wonder if living on the streets will become generational?
 
I have helped the homeless over the years. I don't see as many as I used to but then I don't go out much anymore either. Last week I went to CVS and a homeless veteran asked me if I could spare anything so I gave him what I could. He was very happy.,
 
Murrmurr said:
Californians have invested billions over the past several years, believing the state's promises that they finally had the ultimate solution (*this time*). And the solution sounded great; a coordinated and very professional program of rehab, rehouse, employ/educate/or train, and follow their progress for a year; but the bulk of the money goes somewhere else every time. After planners and designers, contractors, property owners and managers, coordinators and administrators all get their (inflated) share, there's never enough left to actually build something and implement the program.

At least one of those homeless charities (one that I know of) was set up by the state with some few thousand bucks left over from one of their $billion schemes, and that charity has been paying more to state organizers and administrators than to the needs of homeless people. Last year, 12 meals were delivered to one of our local homeless camps where hundreds live. The charity dropped off 12 meals, brushed off their hands, and walked away feeling great. Our tax-dollars hard at work.

Styrofoam meals is not what's needed. Rehab, rehouse, employ/educate/or train, and follow their progress for a year is what's needed, before it's too late (their numbers keep growing).
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I completely agree.
 
StarSong said:
I completely agree.
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I have no idea what we can do about it. It'll take an organized up-rising, but I guess we're all waiting for someone else to get angry enough.

Have you ever watched a YouTuber called German in Venice? He immigrated to LA 20yrs ago with a dream of becoming the next Arnold Schwarzenegger, and eventually settled in Venice Beach. He made a series of videos about the homeless there, the recent clean-up, protests over the clean up, and post clean-up. It's really interesting.
 
Murrmurr said:
I have no idea what we can do about it. It'll take an organized up-rising, but I guess we're all waiting for someone else to get angry enough.

Have you ever watched a YouTuber called German in Venice? He immigrated to LA 20yrs ago with a dream of becoming the next Arnold Schwarzenegger, and eventually settled in Venice Beach. He made a series of videos about the homeless there, the recent clean-up, protests over the clean up, and post clean-up. It's really interesting.
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I have not, but will look into it.

Venice Beach, which is also home to Muscle Beach, was one of the places I used to bring out-of-town visitors, but took it off my list few years ago because it ceased being funky, interesting or fun. Instead, because of the huge homeless and drug addict population, it's become gross, dangerous, unpleasant and more than a little embarrassing.

The 2022 cleanup was essentially a political pissing match between a grandstanding county sheriff who can't keep his own house in order, and the LAPD (under whose jurisdiction Venice Beach falls).

Most Southern Californians knew that when the spotlight faded the homeless would return to Venice in droves. And that's exactly what happened.
 
Murrmurr said:
I have no idea what we can do about it. It'll take an organized up-rising, but I guess we're all waiting for someone else to get angry enough...
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Actually back on page 2 of this thread, I already addressed the source of the problem. Issues the majority and their media will ignore, kicking and screaming to prevent real solutions lest it selfishly impact their wealth and politics despite dooming our descendants. We naked earth monkeys need to embrace SUSTAINABILITY not endless growth, not only for our future but also for the sake of the precious life on this rare blue water world.

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/a-conversation-about-the-homeless.75007/page-3#post-2240562
 
StarSong said:
I have not, but will look into it.

Venice Beach, which is also home to Muscle Beach, was one of the places I used to bring out-of-town visitors, but took it off my list few years ago because it ceased being funky, interesting or fun. Instead, because of the huge homeless and drug addict population, it's become gross, dangerous, unpleasant and more than a little embarrassing.

The 2022 cleanup was essentially a political pissing match between a grandstanding county sheriff who can't keep his own house in order, and the LAPD (under whose jurisdiction Venice Beach falls).

Most Southern Californians knew that when the spotlight faded the homeless would return to Venice in droves. And that's exactly what happened.
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They came back? That's a shame.

My son and his wife just came back from a one week vacation LA. They went to see the Rammstien concert. They took a selfie at Venice Beach and it doesn't show any tents or sleeping bags in the background, but maybe they made a point of not capturing any.
 
David777 said:
Actually back on page 2 of this thread, I already addressed the source of the problem. Issues the majority and their media will ignore, kicking and screaming to prevent real solutions lest it selfishly impact their wealth and politics despite dooming our descendants. We naked earth monkeys need to embrace SUSTAINABILITY not endless growth not only for our future but also for the sake of the precious life on this rare blue water world.

https://www.seniorforums.com/threads/a-conversation-about-the-homeless.75007/page-3#post-2240562
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I totally agree with you on the politics of this problem. I'm saying I don't know what to do about the lack of meaningful action.

If you mentioned some possible solutions, I missed it. (I'll go back and read)
 
Murrmurr said:
Me too. My point was that people in government aren't getting it done...but I might have got hung up on grammar or some other little distraction. I don't know how to solve that, though. How do we get them to listen? Start a major protest on behalf of the homeless? Only vote for politicians who talk about it? Only vote 3rd-party? Stop voting all together? Homeless people themselves are too depressed, too drunk or loaded, or too resigned to demand changes in policy.

There are a few organizations dedicated to the "needs of the homeless", but it seems they only focus on food and blankets and stuff, not actual solutions.
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This is my problem too. How can it be changed. As others have mentioned here, building is for the profit, not the people.

In addition to homeless, there needs to be housing for low income working people. Housing is becoming more and more unaffordable. In addition to other goods and services going up.
 
StarSong said:
I knew that would be controversial when I wrote it. No, it's not necessarily "fair," but it might be necessary. Many dorm-type homeless shelters and temporary housing units aren't conducive to sheltering animals while attempting to get homeless people on their feet. Perhaps foster care could be arranged for pets while people are getting themselves together.

I guess the question is whether it's better to leave people on the streets so they can keep their animals, or better to tell them they have to give up their animals - at least for a while - so they can pull themselves together?
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Not 100% what the solution is. I also read or heard that there are a % of people who don't leave abusive situations because of pets. I don't think we can discount the importance of pets to some people. Especially those with abuse and trauma. Giving up a pet could be something that they never would forgive themselves for.

If someone is so far gone on drugs or with psychosis and can't take care of themselves, it's unlikely they are taking care of a pet. That's another situation.

It's all such a mess and it's not getting any better. For anyone.
 
PamfromTx said:
It’s as simple as taking a few extra sandwiches when you go out. I packed lunches for the homeless during the 6 weeks that I underwent radiation. I was thankful and grateful for my health.

When you pass someone who asks for change, offer him or her something to eat.
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Had a beggar ask me for change to get coffee. We were headed to Dairy Queen and continued on. After we finished, I bought a coffee to go, grabbed sugar and cream on the way out. Gave the beggar the coffee and fixings, and the way he acted I thought maybe he really did want the coffee. The beggars used to line the block with the bank and Dairy Queen so one day I took a beggar into DQ and told her order any food you want, she did and I paid and left. I will not give them cash! Fact is here we have beggars, no homeless our winters are too cold to have homeless. If they are actually homeless they go to the local shelter or leave for warmer areas.
 

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