Deception is part of life, or so says a well known book (do you agree?)

grahamg

grahamg

Old codger
Location
South of Manchester, UK
I remember reading a book about human behaviour called "the games people play", (I was probably introduced to it during a management course), and apparently during almost all interactions we're all guilty of trying to mislead one another to some degree or other.

Here is a website concerning this:
https://www.shortform.com/summary/g...MIxe-2pJTH-gIVJ-_tCh0hMwatEAAYAiAAEgJ8TPD_BwE

Quote:
"You probably know someone who regularly blows things out of proportion, or who insists on having the same argument over and over, or constantly tries to one-up other people. According to Dr. Eric Berne, a pioneering psychiatrist who broke away from the Freudian tradition, those are just two of the games that people play in work, love, sex, and friendship.

Games People Play is Berne’s 1964 classic about the many ways that we habitually relate to one another through “games.” These aren’t fun, harmless social games, though—they’re subtle, largely unconscious patterns that harm us and our relationships. Berne explains how most of us don’t even notice our games, and how we’re missing out on the fulfillment of game-free living."

Another review here:
https://medium.com/publiclibrarysg/popular-psychology-navigating-the-games-people-play-b59740e39c82

Quote:
"Transactional Analysis explores the dynamics of these interactions and sheds light on our "life scripts" (unconscious pathways developed during childhood and reinforced by our caregivers and other life events), need for “strokes” (social interactions where the person’s presence is recognised), tendency to "discount" (ignore information that could solve your problems) and our love for playing “games” (a series of interactions between two or more people that follow a predictable pattern)."

Games People Play remains a classic and an enjoyable read with detailed breakdowns of social games like “If It Weren’t for You”, “Wooden Leg”, “Why Don’t You — Yes, But”, “Frigid Women”, and “Kick Me”, amongst other interestingly named ones. Through analysing the various games, Berne explores the eerily familiar social interactions that we live through almost on a daily basis.

For example, in “If It Weren’t for You”, Berne provides an example of a woman whose Child ego-state strategically marries a domineering man who restricts her activities and so keeps her from situations that she is afraid of. In this game, instead of being grateful, she flips the situation and makes her spouse feel guilty about his parochial attitude in order to gain an internal advantage."
 

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Here is a song about it:

Games people play

Lyrics

Hmm la-da da da da da da da
La-da da da da da de
La-da da da da da da da
La-da da da da da da da

Oh the games people play now
Every night and every day now
Never meaning what they say now
Never saying what they mean

And they wile away the hours
In their ivory towers
Till they're covered up with flowers
In the back of a black limousine whoa

La-da da da da da da da
La-da da da da da de
Talking 'bout you and me
And the games people play

Oh we make one another cry
Break a heart then we say goodbye
Cross our hearts and we hope to die
That the other was to blame whoa

Neither one will give in
So we gaze at our eight by ten
Thinking 'bout the things that might have been
And it's a dirty rotten shame whoa

La-da da da da da da da
La-da da da da da de
Talking 'bout you and me
And the games people play now

Oh yeah
All right
Oh yeah
Come on

Oh
Come again

People walking up to ya
Singing glory Hallelujah
And they're tryin' to sock it to you
In the name of the Lord

They're gonna teach you how to meditate
Read your horoscope, cheat your fate
And further more to hell with hate
Come on and get on board whoah

La-da da da da da da da
La-da da da da da de
Talking 'bout you and me
And the games people play
Now wait a minute

Look around tell me what you see
What's happening to you and me
God grant me the serenity
To just remember who I am whoah

'Cause you've given up your sanity
For your pride and your vanity
Turn your back on humanity
Oh and you don't give a da da da da da

La-da da da da da da da
La-da da da da da de
I keep talking 'bout you and me baby
And the games people play now lala

La-da da da da da da da
La-da da da da da de
I keep talking 'bout you and me
Oh and the games people play
I wonder can you come now, play

Talking 'bout you and me oh
And the games people play now

 
I recently read that book! So funny to see it mentioned here. I first read it back in the early 1980's, and it was interesting to read it again when I am much older.

As for deception, I would only consider any behavior deceptive if it was embarked upon with a full awareness, and and expectation of the outcome. The book states that most of the games indulged in are done for the most part, on a subconscious level.
 

I can't imagine a book on this. It happens. Sometimes hurtful, sometimes not, sometimes for good reasons, sometimes bad, sometimes different degrees of it, sometimes from insecurities, everyone does it, sometimes you, sometimes me...no not me lol...
...from birth we fake cry to get our way 😂...end of story.
 
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Hello, Graham,


“Deception is part of life, or so says a well-known book (do you agree?)”


Yes, I agree.

My reason for agreeing is that my thoughts are aligned with the following quote you provided:

“Transactional Analysis explores the dynamics of these interactions and sheds light on our “life scripts” (unconscious pathways developed during childhood and reinforced by our caregivers and other life events), need for “strokes” (social interactions where the person’s presence is recognized), tendency to discount (ignore information that could solve your problems) and our love for playing “games” (a series of interactions between two or more people that follow a predictable pattern).”

During our waking hours, many of our life scripts unfurl involuntarily, unconsciously, unbeknownst to us.

Hence, making us vulnerable to personal sabotage; whereupon, we’re easily waylaid by our submersible, subversive perception, thoughts, appetites, and desires.

The aftermath being, a rude awakening, in which we find ourselves a deluded pawn and victim of our making.
 
Old_Dame said:
...During our waking hours, many of our life scripts unfurl involuntarily, unconsciously, unbeknownst to us.
Hence, making us vulnerable to personal sabotage; whereupon, we’re easily waylaid by our submersible, subversive perception, thoughts, appetites, and desires.
The aftermath being, a rude awakening, in which we find ourselves a deluded pawn and victim of our making.
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Wow @Old_Dame you should make a somewhat dark poem of those thoughts...kind of like "Night Time Sharpens" in the Phantom of the Opera.

That's a huge compliment btw. Well penned.
`
 
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@Lara
Laura, thank you. Your kind sentiments are deeply appreciated.

It’s interesting, fitting, that you mention The Phantom OF The Opera …

The tale of, “Phantom OF The Opera, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde; Beauty and the Beast,” all in their fashion; depict, and convey pertinent insight of the subconscious at play as a deep-rooted form of dualism within the protagonist.
 
Old_Dame said:
Hello, Graham, “Deception is part of life, or so says a well-known book (do you agree?)”
Yes, I agree. My reason for agreeing is that my thoughts are aligned with the following quote you provided:
“Transactional Analysis explores the dynamics of these interactions and sheds light on our “life scripts” (Break)
During our waking hours, many of our life scripts unfurl involuntarily, unconsciously, unbeknownst to us. Hence, making us vulnerable to personal sabotage; whereupon, we’re easily waylaid by our submersible, subversive perception, thoughts, appetites, and desires.
The aftermath being, a rude awakening, in which we find ourselves a deluded pawn and victim of our making.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry to say I see rather too much of this kind of behaviour in someone who is a friend, (or "so called friend" as I choose to call him quite often on this forum).
The bloke is okay really, and when not playing the silly games he indulges in a decent guy, who works hard and wants the best for you, but "his defensive position" (as I'm guessing this kind of behaviour could be described as?), is to play the stupid games described in the OP, and yet I'm as guilty for not challenging him enough over it perhaps. It cant have been easy for his family, (his marriage having fallen apart for various reasons I wont go into fairly recently), especially his now late teenage son, who regardless thinks the world of his dad, (the lad is clued up on psychology so probably recognises what his dad gets up to as well as anyone!).
 
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I don't give a darn about any book. The only person suffering from deception is you. A woman was deceptive to you, she married you out of what you thought was love. You gave her a beautiful child and then she struck the blow, she left you and turned that child against you. This is the deception that you can't overcome. You have allowed this to deceive you after all this time that you are not worthy of love. That is going to stay with you forever unless you stop looking at it the wrong way. You may have not done one thing wrong, it was not your fault, okay.

Quit wasting the little time you have left. Quit focusing on what your exwife did and what your now adult daughter does. Focus on yourself, your happiness. You still have time to find a true love if you try, just put that crap behind you or go order a headstone that says "Oh Crap, I waited too long" .

The one thing we can not deceive is death, what do you want to do before it comes?
 
Blessed said:
I don't give a darn about any book. The only person suffering from deception is you. A woman was deceptive to you, she married you out of what you thought was love. You gave her a beautiful child and then she struck the blow, she left you and turned that child against you. This is the deception that you can't overcome. You have allowed this to deceive you after all this time that you are not worthy of love. That is going to stay with you forever unless you stop looking at it the wrong way. You may have not done one thing wrong, it was not your fault, okay.
Quit wasting the little time you have left. Quit focusing on what your exwife did and what your now adult daughter does. Focus on yourself, your happiness. You still have time to find a true love if you try, just put that crap behind you or go order a headstone that says "Oh Crap, I waited too long" .
The one thing we can not deceive is death, what do you want to do before it comes?
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You're a lady of strong opinions, as anyone can see.
My decision is to live my life as I choose, and nothing you might say will change this fact, but I'm interested that it offends you to the degree it does.
If you imagine I've never had very good friends rail against my way of dealing with my daughter, and lack of contact, (telling me to bend over backwards in order to try to make things right or some such thing), then you are wrong. However they wouldn't/couldn't listen to me when I tried to advise them on what they might do when dissatisfied with the ways their children treated them, even though they'd been an exemplary mother in very many respects.
There we are, we have our differences of opinion, and it will stay that way till I die at least, (but this thread has usefulness well beyond what I might think about folks deceiving one another it would appear, so let it run its course is my request of you).
 
I will respect your wish and not post to you again but it breaks my heart that a nice person has closed off his heart to love because of a lady who took his child and broke his heart. Your deserve happiness and joy if you can find it. I wish you only the best, if you do not search for it, it will I hope search for you.
Best Wishes!!
 
chic said:
I remember reading that book back in the seventies for a psych class. Deception is certainly a part of life, but it's a part I have the most trouble coping with. Trust is the foundation of all healthy relationships.
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When we were given the three or four days management training where the psychology behind the book was explained, and we were encouraged to start using it, (including a bit of role play, interviewing one another etc.), I did find I got the hang of it, and tried to make use of it in the work place whenever possible.

In my private life, where friends like the "so called one" mentioned above, I dont seem to be very successful but it could simply be their behaviour is so intractable.
 
I listened to three folks in their thirties talking in a bar recently, one was an ex-girlfriend of the one guy present, and the other woman was a mutual friend of them both.

I didn't really want to listen to their conversation, but it was hard not to as I waited for my mates to arrive.

The subject of the discussion moved on to the guys current partner, and the guy said she reads all the messages on his mobile telephone, and he hasn't a problem with this. A male friend of his had messaged to say another one of his ex-girlfriends, who he'd only dated half a dozen times, was back in town. Though he'd no intention of meeting her and his mate only told him the information because it had been shared with him on social media. His current partner started reading more into this message and gave him a hard time about it he said.

What to make of all this, (or what did I make of it).
1). Far too much discussion going on between even good friends about the ins and outs of someone's love life.

2). The new partner must be paranoid to have to read every message etc. on his mobile telephone.

3). I wouldn't have trusted this guy as far as I could throw him.

4). This is all most folks nowadays can probably expect from relationships, where divorce and all the rest of it is so prevalent.

Here are some stats from the USA to think about:
https://www.psychalive.org/relationship-infidelity-and-the-real-villain-behind-it/

"It’s hard to deny that, as a society, there’s a lot to be examined about the ethics of our own relationships. In the United States, 45 to 55 percent of married women and 50 to 60 percent of married men engage in extramarital sex at some time during their relationship, according to a 2002 study published in Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy. Still, other studies reveal that 90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong. Infidelity is inarguably prevalent, yet it is extensively frowned upon. Given this discrepancy, it is important for every couple to address how they are going to approach the subject of fidelity and to examine the level of honesty and openness in their relationship."
 
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Depends on what sort of deception you mean. (a) self-deception (deluding yourself), (b) deceiving others, or (c) accidental deception.
You know what, even the simple act of putting on make up is a deception :sneaky:
 
@grahamg Thank you for a most interesting and fascinating topic. I often think of posting to your topics but can't always put into words what I feel. I agree with what was postulated and also that these things seem often to be subconscious but not always. Yet doing it consciously isn't a crime either, just being human and perhaps feisty.
 

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