Have you ever been in a plane that had severe Turbulence..like this one

oldman said:
Holly, I just happen to be looking over some posts and ran across this one. Of course, anything related to aviation grabs my attention. Questions about turbulence are probably one of the most asked in any setting when people learn that I was a former pilot. There is no one reason what causes turbulence. It could be anything from weather related to planes crossing over the jet stream to high level wind shear or even convection or flying over mountain tops.

Turbulence as severe as what was described in the thread could have been caused by the plane crossing over the jet stream, or high level wind shear. Wind shear can be detected by the pilots using their radar screen. Planes are equipped with Doppler radar, so some weather phenoms can be seen on the plane’s radar screen. The plane’s Doppler radar is also capable a detecting turbulence. This is how the pilots were able to forewarn the passengers to buckle up. The pilots also know before take off that they will be crossing over the jet stream just by looking at the weather map.

I also read that the airline stated that the seatbelt sign was on and at least one passenger is stating that it wasn’t. This can be determined by either the CVR or the FDR. When the two readings from these boxes are read, the argument will be settled. As for people becoming unnerved during heavy turbulence, it’s best to keep in mind that turbulence alone will not bring down an aircraft. Even when it feels like the bottom dropped out, there is nothing to worry about. Pilots are trained to control their plane during heavy turbulence. Rule number one has always been to keep the wings level.

That may sound dumb to some people, but it only stands to reason that keeping the wings level can prevent pilots from losing control of the aircraft. Heavy turbulence will sometimes cause a plane to yaw, which is when the plane starts dipping left to right. If yawing is not corrected, it is possible for things to become worse. This is why keeping the wings level is priority one.

With today’s technology and all of the backup (fail-safe) systems, bringing down an airplane has become an almost impossible task, mechanically or electronically. A hydraulic line can break at anytime, but pilots are trained to deal with those issues. We haven’t had a major fatal accident on a passenger aircraft here in the U.S. since 2009. Believe me when I tell you that pilots want to live just as bad as their passengers. When flying, pilots will tell you that it’s always safety first. It wasn’t too long ago when pilots would rush to keep on schedule to appease the airline elite, but that philosophy has fell by the wayside. Too many pilots were rushing to stay on time and not completing their checklists properly.

I just flew last Tuesday. We were the first plane out at 6:10 a.m., so there shouldn’t have been any excuses for leaving late, but evidently the FO ( First Officer) had overslept and was late getting onboard. The Captain announced to the passengers, all 23 of us on a B-757, that we would be departing as soon as the FO was onboard. I noticed when he arrived and was seated, the Purser locked the cabin door and then it was still another 7 or 8 minutes before we were pushed back. I knew then that they had taken the time to run their checklist before letting the tower know they were ready for push back. It gave me a sense of security knowing that my pilots were following the book and not in rush to get airborne to stay on time. We still arrived at our destination 5 minutes early.

Sorry for the long post. Sometimes I try to be too exact to make my posts clear to anyone that doesn’t understand or have a lot of knowledge about aviation. I hope my post gives you some understanding about turbulence. Most of all, please try not to worry when in turbulence. Your pilots have been expertly trained to handle any situation that may arise while the plane is in flight. A lot of things have really changed in the airline industry, including morale of the flight crews. If an emergency should arise, pay close attention to what the FA’s tell you. They are professionally trained and want to keep you safe. Happy flying!
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Thankyou!
 

Giants fan1954 said:
Doesn't sound crazy to me,I am beyond terrified,even when someone I know is flying I'm on pins & needles until I know they're safe.
My only experience was in 1980 to the Bahamas and back,hated it then...a few bloody Marys didn't even help and you could smoke back then!
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Things have changed dramatically since the 80’s. There is no reason to fear flying, but I understand that for some, my words mean very little. My only suggestion would be is to go to your family doctor and discuss this issue with him. There is medication you could take to help you relax during your flight. I know some people will use Xanax before their flight and others use Tranxene. Both are Benzodiazepines, so they can be addictive, but I doubt if occasionally using them would cause an addiction.

Fear is a terrible thing and can be a very traumatic experience. In your case, I would consider medication over alcohol, but that’s only my suggestion. Once you get through a few flights, you may become more trustworthy. We had a passenger onboard and while we were extending the flaps (which passengers do hear a roaring noise) during climb out, she thought the plane was going to crash and freaked out. It took three FA’s to get her back into her seat and then one had to sit with her until we reached our destination.
 
CarolfromTX said:
Dave and I always wear our seatbelts unless we get up to use the restroom, because you never know when turbulence will occur. Thank God we never experienced turbulence that severe.
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I’m guessing we all had our seat belts on as the signs came on
I always keep mine on also
 

Alligatorob said:
Great explanation @oldman thanks for that.

Two flights I am glad I wasn't on, don't think turbulence caused either:

China Airlines Flight 006: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Airlines_Flight_006 While flying over the Pacific Ocean, the No. 4 engine on the Boeing 747 lost all thrust. Instead of completing the checklist for lost thrust in an engine, the captain decided to simply try to restart the engine. While this wasn't working, the plane's speed decreased. When the captain disengaged the autopilot, the plane inverted and started diving towards the ocean. There were so many clouds and the g-forces were so strong that no one could tell which way was up or down. The pilots managed to break free from the dive and made an emergency landing in San Francisco.

TWA Flight 841: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_841_(1979) While flying over Michigan, the pilots had the Boeing 727's autopilot on Altitude Hold when the plane began a steep roll to the right. When they disengaged the autopilot to try to correct it, the plane ended up barrel rolling 360 degrees twice. The pilots managed to stop further rolls by extending the landing gear and made an emergency landing in Detroit.
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After reading the NTSB reports, I believe the Captain and the Flight Engineer did not have enough training on what to do if an engine fails on the B-747 and also, the proper restart procedure for an engine that has flamed out. China Air had a questionable safety reputation back during that time period. I also believe that the passengers were very fortunate that God was looking after them. Anytime a plane inverts and then regaining control of the plane by the methods these two pilots used, everyone was most fortunate.

As for TWA Flight 841, as the saying goes, “Something is rotten in Denmark” may apply here. It’s possible that someone isn’t being truthful. Some of what happened and their story as to what they did to correct the situation is all very questionable. Even the NTSB finds the pilot’s story somewhat questionable. Their actions in some instances are questionable.
 
CinnamonSugar said:
@hollydolly et al, I would have thought with the updated technology, they could have been forewarned about the kind of conditions that would make for such turbulence and re-routed? But what I know about this kind of thing is next to nothing, so…
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Plane instruments can't detect turbulence, especially before the plane encounters it. And when the pilot does encounter it, s/he has no way of knowing before-hand how severe it's going to be.

I hope they don't blame the pilot or the airline. Neither of them are responsible for these injuries...not for causing them, specifically.
 
Murrmurr said:
Plane instruments can't detect turbulence, especially before the plane encounters it. And when the pilot does encounter it, s/he has no way of knowing before-hand how severe it's going to be.

I hope they don't blame the pilot or the airline. Neither of them are responsible for these injuries...not for causing them, specifically.
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That’s correct murmurr ..my brother is a pilot …
 
Murrmurr said:
Plane instruments can't detect turbulence, especially before the plane encounters it. And when the pilot does encounter it, s/he has no way of knowing before-hand how severe it's going to be.

I hope they don't blame the pilot or the airline. Neither of them are responsible for these injuries...not for causing them, specifically.
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Thanks for the clarification
 
Murrmurr said:
Plane instruments can't detect turbulence, especially before the plane encounters it. And when the pilot does encounter it, s/he has no way of knowing before-hand how severe it's going to be.

I hope they don't blame the pilot or the airline. Neither of them are responsible for these injuries...not for causing them, specifically.
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That’s not necessarily true. CAT or “clear air turbulence” cannot be detected by radar, however, turbulence that is either caused by clouds or precipitation can be detected through the plane’s Doppler radar. When the plane gets to their cruising altitude and the air is smooth, they will announce that “I have turned off the seatbelt sign so that you may get up and move about.” This means it’s your chance to use the rest room. The announcement will also state, “While you are in your seats, please keep your seatbelts buckled. Turbulence can happen at any time.” Also, other pilots talk to one another and let othe planes know that they are at a certain altitude and the air is smooth, or that they were at 39,000 feet (as an example) and the air was rough. Keep in mind that a lot of radar is caused by convection. Also, anytime warm air passes over cold air or vice versa, turbulence can occur. ATC will also announce to planes where smoother air is if there has been a lot of rough air reported. I used to like flying at 41,000 feet, if the air was smooth. The higher you can fly, the more fuel you can save because the air is thinner and there is less drag.
 
Here's another story from todays' news...

  • Daniele De Matos, 36, was due to fly from Sydney to Honolulu on Saturday night
  • The US citizen was wrongly seated in economy on her Hawaiian Airlines flight
  • De Matos was moved to her rightful seat in business class after abusing staff
  • She became angry when a crew member took away a drink she hadn't finished
  • Belligerent De Matos then told stewards not to look at her for the next nine hours

A belligerent American business class plane passenger was pulled off a flight from Sydney to Hawaii after she ordered the cabin crew not to look at her for the next nine hours.

The 36-year-old boarded Hawaiian Airlines flight HA452 at 9.22pm to make the 8,180km journey on an Airbus A320, according to documents tendered in Downing Centre Local Court.


Daniele De Matos, a concierge for a software company who had come to Australia for work, was set to fly to Honolulu last Saturday but began causing trouble even before her plane got off the ground.
Cabin crew realised they had made a mistake and directed De Matos to her correct business class seat where she sat and calmed down.

'Shortly after, cabin crew took an alcoholic drink prematurely which caused the accused to become verbally abusive towards that staff member,' the statement of facts said.
'The accused mood changed quickly, and she was apologetic and remorseful after this.'

De Matos's improved mood did not last long.

As the plane left the gate and began taxiing towards the runway, De Matos began 'staring down' the cabin crew member who had previously taken her drink while she demonstrated the inflight safety rules.
'Shortly after the demonstration concluded, the accused ordered the cabin crew not to look at her for nine hours,' it said.

'As a result of these interactions, the cabin crew advised the captain of the accused's behaviour. The captain formed the view that the accused's erratic and disorderly behaviour presented a risk to the safety of the aircraft'.

The captain made a decision to return the aircraft to the terminal to offload De Matos and another female cabin crew member approached her to explain what was going on.
During this, she placed her hand on the accused's shoulder to calm her, which caused the accused to act aggressively towards the crew member,' the statement of facts said.

The plane reached the gate at 10.08pm and Hawaiian Airlines airport operations staff came on board to order De Matos off the aircraft. She refused and they called police for help.

When Australian Federal Police officers came to take De Matos away she was 'belligerent' but eventually walked off the plane of her own accord. Having delayed the flight for more than an hour, she was arrested and charged.

De Matos pleaded guilty to one count of behaving in an offensive or disorderly manner affecting safety when she appeared before magistrate Theo Tsavdaridis on Monday.

Mr Tsavdaridis convicted De Matos and fined her $600.
 
I would have found religion real fast on that flight.

Worst turbulence I've experienced was Sacramento to Salt Lake City and also Las Vegas to Sacramento over the Sierra Nevada Mountains.
 
The worst turbulence I was in was over the Pacific between Hawaii and Guam. I was asleep and woke up to the feeling of falling and hitting bottom. Flying in small planes, Cessna 150's and 152's was frightening for me when I started doing that. I would have a death grip on that seat from take off until landing. Eventually I was able to solo fly those small planes and became so comfortable with it that when my mother was ill and my life was falling apart I could get in a plane and go up alone and find peace. I miss being able to do that.
 
In many cases, pilots know of turbulent conditions ahead and can turn on the seatbelt sign as the plane approaches it. Pilots are also aided by pre-flight weather reports, cockpit radar, and reports from other planes in the area.
 
Many, many moons ago, in my Navy days, I was flying from Chicago to NYC in this old two engine prop plane. We had only had to make six stops. We were landing at Cleveland. It was real stormy. The plane was bouncing around. The pilot was good about calming us down. He said we were landing now. I looked out the window and there was runway. Then I thought-wait a minute- shouldn't the runway be in front of the plane? We had to go around, because it was too stormy to land. It took us three times to land. We were bouncing around, but pilot was so calm, like he did this a million times.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Many, many moons ago, in my Navy days, I was flying from Chicago to NYC in this old two engine prop plane. We had only had to make six stops. We were landing at Cleveland. It was real stormy. The plane was bouncing around. The pilot was good about calming us down. He said we were landing now. I looked out the window and there was runway. Then I thought-wait a minute- shouldn't the runway be in front of the plane? We had to go around, because it was too stormy to land. It took us three times to land. We were bouncing around, but pilot was so calm, like he did this a million times.
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That was funny. Six stops between Chicago and NYC? Anyway, This must have been a looong time ago and so, I doubt if Cleveland had an ILS system for the planes to use, thus, the reason why the pilot needed three attempts to land. Back then also, those puddle jumpers were hard enough to land on dry pavement with clear air let alone on windy, wet pavement. I remember back when I first started flying at school in a Cessna 152 and did my solo and it was raining. I thought for sure the flight instructor was going to postpone all solos that day, but oh no, he did not. He asked. "Well, you fellas ready to tackle the weather?" One of the other student said he was kind of nervous about flying in the weather and could he wait until tomorrow? The Instructor told him, "Hell, no, you can't wait until tomorrow. Just try to calm down, remember your training and try not to land in that farmer's cornfield over there. He hates it when we do that to him." The poor kid didn't do very well and had to take the test over.
 
With all the very lengthy trips to/from Australia, I only remember turbulence on one flight .. and, it wasn't
very bad.
 
oldman said:
That was funny. Six stops between Chicago and NYC? Anyway, This must have been a looong time ago
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It was 1968. The plane had two rows of single seats maybe 18-20 passengers. We didn't have a flight attendant. The cockpit didn't have a door, it had a curtain, which was pushed open. The pilot could just turn around and talk to us.
 
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