CNN reporting 2 dead after missiles/rockets land inside Poland

Been There said:
I figured it came from Ukraine. I didn’t want to be called a conspiracist, so I’m glad I waited. It made no sense for Russia to fire missiles into Poland at this point. I will go out on a limb here snd say, if Russia decides to escalate this war, their next move will be with using their nuclear arsenal. By escalating, I mean, if they decide to fire at countries on the side of Ukraine.

I would be very interested to know where their nuclear subs and our nuclear subs are positioned at this time. If a nuclear war were to break out, I believe the subs will play an integral part of the bombing by launching nuclear missiles from their subs. It’s the next best thing to using stealth bombers/fighters. I would think Russia would consider putting Eastern Europe in their crosshairs.
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Russia...well, Putin has always had Europe in his cross-hairs. He knows what a nuke war would cost him (cost him, personally, and that is his main concern), so he really doesn't want to go there, but no one should assume that he won't.

Also, I'd love to know where the subs are, too, and all the other specific hardware as well, But of course, if we knew, then everyone could know. I do like happy surprises, and this war's been full of them!
 
Aneeda72 said:
George S. Patton wanted to end Russia. One of his quotes on the subject is “I have no particular desire to understand them, except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them.” It is my understanding that Churchill supported this point of view. Eisenhower did not.

And so several generations grew up with the threat of nuclear war, the threat of Russian aggression, and actual Russian aggression. I loved Eisenhower, but he made a terrible mistake.

I hope NATO doesn’t.
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It's possible Russia will eat itself, if you know what I mean.

It's a youthful nation, and, up until just several months ago, its youth has had easy access to how life is in democratic countries, to Russia's actual history, and to modern living. And Russia's middle and upper-class youth have had very comfortable lives compared to poor Russians, and not only do they NOT want their comfortable lives disturbed, many of them want to improve conditions for their poor countrymen.

None of that is congruent with the "old guard"/ Old Russia.
 

Been There said:
I figured it came from Ukraine. I didn’t want to be called a conspiracist, so I’m glad I waited. It made no sense for Russia to fire missiles into Poland at this point. I will go out on a limb here snd say, if Russia decides to escalate this war, their next move will be with using their nuclear arsenal. By escalating, I mean, if they decide to fire at countries on the side of Ukraine.

I would be very interested to know where their nuclear subs and our nuclear subs are positioned at this time. If a nuclear war were to break out, I believe the subs will play an integral part of the bombing by launching nuclear missiles from their subs. It’s the next best thing to using stealth bombers/fighters. I would think Russia would consider putting Eastern Europe in their crosshairs.
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I doubt anyone will share where their subs are 😂😂😂
 
Nosy Bee-54 said:
After all the finger pointing, it turned out to be friendly fire that killed 2 in Poland.
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Hmm, friendly fire refers to two combatants at war, and one of the combatants kills their own comrade instead of an enemy combatant.

Poland is not at war, so no friendly fire.
 
Murrmurr said:
Russia...well, Putin has always had Europe in his cross-hairs. He knows what a nuke war would cost him (cost him, personally, and that is his main concern), so he really doesn't want to go there, but no one should assume that he won't.

Also, I'd love to know where the subs are, too, and all the other specific hardware as well, But of course, if we knew, then everyone could know. I do like happy surprises, and this war's been full of them!
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The happy surprise that Ukraine has kicked butt, and the so-called great Russian army, isn’t so great. 😊
 
Murrmurr said:
And that a TV personality actually CAN make an awesome president. And Zelensky wasn't even an "action hero"! Dude was a comedian.

Kind of ironic.
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He really turned out to be a winner, didn’t he? While we had much less luck with our tv officials, although I could see John Wayne as a real winner. 😊
 
Been There said:
It made no sense for Russia to fire missiles into Poland at this point.
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Not intentionally, no, but its not unusual for these things to go off target. Doesn't look like that happened this time.
Aneeda72 said:
happy surprise that Ukraine has kicked butt, and the so-called great Russian army, isn’t so great
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I don't like the Russians, not with Putin in charge either. However I'd call nothing in any war a "happy surprise", except the end...

As I recall we blamed North Vietnamese antiaircraft fire falling back to earth for a lot of the civilian casualties... This ain't the first time.
 
Alligatorob said:
Not intentionally, no, but its not unusual for these things to go off target. Doesn't look like that happened this time.

I don't like the Russians, not with Putin in charge either. However I'd call nothing in any war a "happy surprise", except the end...

As I recall we blamed North Vietnamese antiaircraft fire falling back to earth for a lot of the civilian casualties... This ain't the first time.
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I am not opposed to civilian casualties depending on which war we are talking about: and as long as it’s their civilian casualties not our civilian casualties. Unfortunately all Germans in WWII were Nazi’s, many by choice, many not by choice. But who could tell the difference? Most couldn’t even tell the difference when some of the horrible ones migrated to the US and other places. Except for the Nazi hunters, they knew.

Same for Vietnamese. My opinion and not interested in a prolonged conversation on these issues. I am extremely pro USA, but non political. 😂

The idea that we can have a war, but no civilian casualties is ridiculous, IMO. But we, the USA, no longer need boots on the ground. It can all be done by air.
 
Alligatorob said:
Not intentionally, no, but its not unusual for these things to go off target. Doesn't look like that happened this time.

I don't like the Russians, not with Putin in charge either. However I'd call nothing in any war a "happy surprise", except the end...

As I recall we blamed North Vietnamese antiaircraft fire falling back to earth for a lot of the civilian casualties... This ain't the first time.
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I like most of the Russians I've met. I've met Russians who immigrated here, and for several years now I've been online friends with 2 guys and a lady who live in Russia. I have nothing against the Russian people in general.

The "happy surprises" I'm talking about include spectacular leadership, intelligent strategies, absolute resolve, exceptional bravery, and a source of inspiration. All of this was completely unexpected, except by very few.

Just wanted to clarify
 
Murrmurr said:
I like most of the Russians I've met. I've met Russians who immigrated here, and for several years now I've been online friends with 2 guys and a lady who live in Russia. I have nothing against the Russian people in general.
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I agree, and did not mean to suggest otherwise. I spent about 10 days in Russia a few years back, liked most of the people I met. And like you I have known Russians here, good people all. What I meant was I do not like what the Russians are doing under Putin.
 
Nigh on to 9 months and some seem to think Putin should somehow be removed, as he is crazy. He may also be the least crazy, in Russia's leadership.

There also seems to be, some wishful thinking of some heroic fictitious character will rescue us... from this mess.

Russia is losing a lot of battles, but is Russia losing the war? Winter's onset in Europe, and their reaction will determine a good bit of who is winning, imo.
 
Harry Le Hermit said:
Nigh on to 9 months and some seem to think Putin should somehow be removed, as he is crazy. He may also be the least crazy, in Russia's leadership.

There also seems to be, some wishful thinking of some heroic fictitious character will rescue us... from this mess.

Russia is losing a lot of battles, but is Russia losing the war? Winter's onset in Europe, and their reaction will determine a good bit of who is winning, imo.
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I agree, however, it looks to me like Russia's military leaders have made some crucial errors that could result in a loss. And they're still making some very unwise decisions, imo.

And while Ukraine could benefit from some hardware they haven't been given (yet) I've seen surprising results from what they have been given.

On a personal note, Harry, I think you might find this youtube channel very interesting: Suchomimus observes the Ukraine-Russian war through the "real time" lens of Google Earth. Currently, you can see Russian trenches being built in northern Crimea that are many miles long, and that intercept with other trenches miles away in eastern Crimea. Fascinating stuff.
 
Murrmurr said:
I agree, however, it looks to me like Russia's military leaders have made some crucial errors that could result in a loss. And they're still making some very unwise decisions, imo.
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The issue is the solidarity of the NATO Alliance. The NATO allies are all democracies, meaning they are accountable to their citizens. Many countries of Europe are currently undergoing stressful economic conditions, as a result of this war. Many of their citizens are feeling the impacts of the war and the sanctions being imposed on Russia.

It's one thing to rail against Russia from the comfort of one's home, but quite another... when that home is costly to heat and the dinner table is looking sparse. The battlefield extends far beyond Ukraine, imo.
 
Harry Le Hermit said:
The issue is the solidarity of the NATO Alliance. The NATO allies are all democracies, meaning they are accountable to their citizens. Many countries of Europe are currently undergoing stressful economic conditions, as a result of this war. Many of their citizens are feeling the impacts of the war and the sanctions being imposed on Russia.

It's one thing to rail against Russia from the comfort of one's home, but quite another... when that home is costly to heat and the dinner table is looking sparse. The battlefield extends far beyond Ukraine, imo.
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Of course, cost and discomfort have always been a part of war. Personally, I don't mind the inconveniences that effect me, and would make greater sacrifices if I could, especially if I was younger, and particularly in this case, where a nation reputed to posses superior military strength invaded a nation believed to be much weaker, one with a developing democracy, to boot.

I wish NATO could have gotten involved eight years ago. But I know why they didn't, and I understand why they aren't more involved at this point. I don't see a significant breakdown in NATO's solidarity. No one can expect all member nations to be in 100% agreement for various political reasons, so disagreements and lack of motivation are inevitable.
 
Harry Le Hermit said:
Yet it is requirement... for action.
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Which is why....well, you know.

I watched Zelensky and Russian rep Sergey Lavrov at the G20 summit yesterday. Zelensky said nothing wrong, and every he said was right and 100% just. But politics doesn't work that way, and unfortunately, he probably doesn't know he can't force it to work that way. This will force negotiations bx him, NATO, and his military benefactors.
 
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Alligatorob said:
Not intentionally, no, but its not unusual for these things to go off target. Doesn't look like that happened this time.

I don't like the Russians, not with Putin in charge either. However I'd call nothing in any war a "happy surprise", except the end...

As I recall we blamed North Vietnamese antiaircraft fire falling back to earth for a lot of the civilian casualties... This ain't the first time.
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It is unusual if they are guided missiles. I spent 30 years in the Marines and I have had a sufficient amount of experience with launching and guiding missiles via laser and/or gps. If you’re referring to a SAM or another heat-seeking type missile like a Stinger, then maybe. There are times when you can trick these missiles using flares, but if they are wire-guided, then that’s another issue. However, for any missile to miss its target by hundreds of miles is really a stretch, but I will concede that, yes, it’s been known to happen.

Getting back to the original discussion, I would think even Putin isn’t dumb enough to fire a missile at a NATO country and have 30 other countries ready to blow his ass into extinction. I also think a lot of people aren’t willing to admit that Zelensky would really like the U.S. to take a bite out of Putin’s butt. Did you hear his speech after the missile landed In Poland? I am pretty well convinced that Zelensky was behind this. One reason would be it would keep the money flowing from the U.S. to his pocket. Why won’t he show where the money has gone that he has received from the U.S. and other countries so far? No accountability can be a great diversion, but sometimes it can also be a sign of “something is rotten in Denmark.”

I think this little conniver is shamming us for the money. Why not? The so-called President (Ghani) in Afghanistan did it and then he left town with a truckload of cash. Now, you can call ne conspiracist.
 
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Been There said:
It is unusual if they are guided missiles. I spent 30 years in the Marines and I have had a sufficient amount of experience with launching and guiding missiles via laser and/or gps. If you’re referring to a SAM or another heat-seeking type missile like a Stinger, then maybe. There are times when you can trick these missiles using flares
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According to various reports, Russian GPS guided missiles use Russian satellites, and they're sub-par (probably rumor). All GPS weapons can be confounded, of course, and you can bet that everyone who has a modern military is taking notes and sending them to their weapons engineers. And NASA equivalents.
 
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Murrmurr said:
According to various reports, Russian GPS guided missiles use Russian satellites, and they're sub-par (probably rumor). All GPS weapons can be confounded, of course, and you can bet that everyone who has a modern military is taking notes and sending them to their weapons engineers. And NASA equivalents.
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That’s no secret. We use satellites and GPS to guide our missiles along with lasers. But, like I said, it’s very unusual for a missile to miss its target by hundreds of miles, but I would concede that it has happen, but in a different situation and under a different set of circumstances.

I can tell you that we aren’t going to be told the itty bitty details as my Colonel used to say. I don’t know where he got that from, maybe his grandson, but every time we would be setup for a mission, he would say, “You men will learn the itty bitty details at the flight readiness meeting.
 
Alligatorob said:
I am sure you know a lot more about missiles than I do, but I suspect you were launching US missiles. I know Russian technology is different. This article suggests the Russian missiles being used in Ukraine are not very reliable:

Lessons from Russian Missile Performance in Ukraine​

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2022/october/lessons-russian-missile-performance-ukraine
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I’ll tell you what’s not very reliable, Russia and nuclear anything. Over the years, they have had more errors and mistakes using a nuclear arsenal to nuclear reactors to nuclear subs. The stories I could tell.
 

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