Another Plane Crash - Airbus Over French Alps

Ameriscot said:
There have been planes who descended rapidly for whatever reason and recovered. I've watched a lot of the Air Crash Investigation programmes that explain how they figure out the reasons for a crash or near crash. And rapid descent has occurred on a couple of them, but I can't recall the reasons now.
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Generally, the reason for a rapid descent is a sudden loss of cabin pressure at high altitude. In that event, the oxygen masks are supposed to deploy...both for the cabin crew, and the passengers. There have been a few instances of this happening, over the years. I remember a situation, several years ago, where there was a sudden crack in the fuselage, and they had to get the airplane down to low altitude quickly when the cabin leak occurred. If/when this happens, there is naturally a short period of panic, as everyone puts on their masks...but very quickly the pilots regain control, and radio for help and prepare to land at the closest airport. In this case, there appears to have been No communications, and that makes me wonder if the pilots were unable...for reasons yet to be determined...to react in a normal fashion.
 

8 minutes from loss of control, or from start
of descent to impact, and no radio messages!

This is sinister, I think.

Mike.
 
It's being reported this morning that the Plane had been grounded just 24 hours prior due to technical faults..

from the Mail this morning...

German reports suggest the aircraft had been grounded just 24 hours before it departed Barcelona for Dusseldorf. The plane had suffered technical issues, including a landing gear problem.

Pressure will be put on owner Germanwings to explain why the plane was allowed to fly. Urgent safety checks are now being carried out on other A320s, which are popular with budget airlines. Meanwhile, passengers were left stranded at Heathrow, Stansted and Manchester after several Germanwings crews - including pilots - refused to work following the accident yesterday over safety fears.
Experts said Flight 4U 9525's rate of descent did not suggest it had simply fallen out of the sky – prompting speculation that the pilots may have suddenly fallen unconscious. As the French authorities appeared to rule out terrorism, it also emerged that:

  • Five years ago two pilots from the same Germanwings airline nearly passed on landing in Cologne. Contaminated air was suspected;
  • It is the third serious incident involving the Airbus 'family' in six months – two of them fatal crashes that have left more than 300 dead;
  • A safety warning was issued last November after a sister plane of Flight 4U 9525 went into a dive over Spain, falling at 4,000ft a minute before the pilot regained control.
 
Davey Jones said:
oldman,
This plane that crash the A-320 is 25 years old and,like anything else things wear out. We'll have to wait and see what those black boxes tell us.
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Actually, age of the aircraft has very little to do with a plane crash. Airlines replace planes not because of age, in a sense, but because they start to look old and shoddy, especially on the inside and also because of newer technology with new aircraft. If proper maintenance is done on a timely basis, it is possible for a plane to fly forever, but who wants to fly in an outdated airplane? Not to mention that every time there is a crash and it is found to be caused by a mechanical problem, the manufacturers install a new sensor or transponder or whatever is needed to prevent a similar crash. To outfit an older plane with today's technology is very expensive. Airlines have been doing a pretty job with keeping their fleets updated and also ordering new planes.

Example: Look at the plane that went down in the Everglades that was operated by ValueJet. The plane was an old DC-9 and about 27 years old. The crash had nothing to do with the age, but with mishandled cargo.

This plane (an Airbus A-320) did a 31,000 ft. descent in 9 minutes. To me, I would expect this to be a controlled descent. Could they have gotten hypoxia? I don't know. I have done these types of descents in simulators without any ill-feeling, but things are different in simulators like, compression, decompression and so on. I think they did find the CVR, so maybe we will hear something today.
 
It feels to me like a deliberate thing.. like a pilot suicide. But of course we will have to wait for the official ruling, if they are able to determine it.
 
Couldn't he just have hung himself rather than take all those people with him? Or are you saying he was some kind of terrorist?
 
QuickSilver said:
It feels to me like a deliberate thing.. like a pilot suicide. But of course we will have to wait for the official ruling, if they are able to determine it.
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There actually was an big airplane crash due to the pilot commiting suicide. Why did he want to take some many innocent people with him?!
 
QuickSilver said:
It feels to me like a deliberate thing.. like a pilot suicide. But of course we will have to wait for the official ruling, if they are able to determine it.
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I know the NTSB doesn't give up until they find the reason. I'm sure the Europeans are the same. If they have both black boxes they should be able to figure it out.
 
Ralphy1 said:
Couldn't he just have hung himself rather than take all those people with him? Or are you saying he was some kind of terrorist?
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I understand he had been flying that airline for years.. I think I would lean more toward thinking there could have been some mental illness.. but in this day and age..terrorism is always on everyone's mind. I haven't googled.. but what is the history of this pilot and co-pilot? Has anything been put out there?
 
Ameriscot said:
There actually was an big airplane crash due to the pilot committing suicide. Why did he want to take some many innocent people with him?!
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I believe that was an Arabian airline. I would hate to think that it was a pilot suicide. At United, if you even get caught joking about that, you are terminated, like right NOW! Crew members are like anyone else, there are certain things that can be mentioned or spoken about in a serious tone, but not joked or made in a threatening manner. Makes sense, right?
 
oldman said:
I believe that was an Arabian airline. I would hate to think that it was a pilot suicide. At United, if you even get caught joking about that, you are terminated, like right NOW! Crew members are like anyone else, there are certain things that can be mentioned or spoken about in a serious tone, but not joked or made in a threatening manner. Makes sense, right?
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Yes, I think you're right. In one episode of the air crash programme there was an Egyptian(?) airline and the co-pilot was afraid to say anything to the pilot who was doing all the wrong things. The culture prohibited him disagreeing with or correcting a superior. The plane crashed and all died, even though the suggestions the co-pilot made were correct, but ignored by the pilot.
 
AS: This was the law of the land at one time. No one could question any of the Captain's moves. Today, that has all changed with the CRM program. Crew Resource Management allows for any crew member to speak up, if they believe there is an issue that the Captain may be over-looking or not doing properly. Now that I think of it, maybe it's the Egyptian airline that went into the ocean nose first.

In my 33 years of flying, I have had three of what I call, close calls with fate caused by mechanical problems. Thankfully, we all made it down and no one even had a scratch. I retired with what we in the business call, "No bent metal."
 
oldman said:
AS: This was the law of the land at one time. No one could question any of the Captain's moves. Today, that has all changed with the CRM program. Crew Resource Management allows for any crew member to speak up, if they believe there is an issue that the Captain may be over-looking or not doing properly. Now that I think of it, maybe it's the Egyptian airline that went into the ocean nose first.

In my 33 years of flying, I have had three of what I call, close calls with fate caused by mechanical problems. Thankfully, we all made it down and no one even had a scratch. I retired with what we in the business call, "No bent metal."
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Well done!! My neighbour is a retired British Airways pilot and I enjoy his stories.

Can't recall where the Egypt air crash was, whether water or land.

The two stories that stick out in my mind are the one in Toronto around 2007? Everybody thought there'd be a lot of dead people but everybody was fine! Then Sully Sullenberger landing perfectly on the water.
 
Don't remember the one in Toronto, but the Miracle on the Hudson is burned into my memory.. What a dramatic landing.

Although my husband used to say that any landing everyone walks away from is a good landing.
 
QuickSilver said:
Don't remember the one in Toronto, but the Miracle on the Hudson is burned into my memory.. What a dramatic landing.

Although my husband used to say that any landing everyone walks away from is a good landing.
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The Toronto one was this: 2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_358

I remember that one because at the time we were flying into Toronto and then renting a car to drive to Michigan as a new airline had really cheap flights.

I will never forget the Detroit (1988?) one that crashed right after take off. Pilot/Co-pilot screw up. The only survivor was a little girl of 4.
 


Pilot was locked out of cockpit.....

PARIS — As officials struggled Wednesday to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed in relatively clear skies, an investigator said evidence from a cockpit voice recorder indicated one pilot left the cockpit before the plane’s descent and was unable to get back in.
A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.
“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”
He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”
While the audio seemed to give some insight into the circumstances leading up to the Germanwings crash, it also left many questions unanswered.

more here....

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?emc=edit_na_20150325

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?emc=edit_na_20150325
 
Don M. said:
I've got a bad feeling about this crash. The plane appears to have gone into a long, and steady descent, with no apparent communications with the crew. That tells me that they were not able to continue piloting this aircraft. It's probably to early to speculate about this being a "hostile" act...but nothing else seems to make sense.
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This! An 8 minute decent without so much as a mayday???

Then tonight they say the pilot was locked out and supposedly the cockpit flight recorder has the pilot knocking on the cab door trying to get back into the cab???
 
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