General racial relations: 70s compared to present

[Sawfish]

After HD from the USAF in 1970, since 1971 have lived in Silicon Valley that demographics show is the most ethnically diverse urban area in the country though was less so until the 1990s when the diversity narrative was strongly pushed by HR departments controlled by those educated to be so by Ivy League elites and their Wallstreet masters. Note always low levels of African Americans due to our high cost of living. That was also when offshoring, outsourcing, and hiring H1B's increasingly dominated tech hiring as the USA sadly lost its world class leading manufacturing and science engineering dominance in order to transfer wealth to the undeserving eastern bean counters.

The original motivation was envious Wallstreet bean counters that gradually bought their way into West Coast tech corp influence, hated how SF Bay Area tech workers were being paid higher wages than elsewhere, so purposely for the sake of lowering competitive product costs and profits, tended to hire foreigners or the little experienced just out of top universities, who could for a list of reasons not command higher salaries except for a few guru's. And they made the guru's teach underlings. Sometimes before being themselves laid off in order to receive severance benefits. As a counterculture person from late 60s, I long learned to live with "Let it be" attitudes to all those different. Have worked and been under direct management of many ethnic groups, gender types, foreigners, and cultural persons. Was successful with several jobs lasting over 5 years because I learned to be neutral, fair, and technically unreplaceable in corporate landscapes full of personal land mines.

Hah! Yeah!

I kept alive in my career by turning down no project, always hitting deadlines, and never requesting raises. At most, I would purposely print my resume on the shared engineering section printer and leave there. People being people, some woud read it and conclude that I was actively looking. This may/may not have induced a higher raise than otherwise.

I could give myself raises by simply moving to another company at a higher rate of pay. This ensured that I'd never be in management, but I didn't want management, I just wanted interesting projects to occupy my time.

 

[AnnieA]

I only really know about black/white. And from my point of view relations have improved, its clear to me. Not perfect, not as good as I'd like them to be, but surely better.

In the 70s legally mandated segregation was finally drawing it's last breath. And where it was already dead the memory was quite fresh. Segregation still exists, and is proving harder to finally eradicate than I thought it would be. But today it's not overtly supported by law.

Why do you think that is? My black/white experience comes from the old segregated south, very different from the west coast.

That's my experience as well, @Alligatorob. The South, especially the rural South where people (emphasis on people, not race) interact on a daily basis at work, school, socializing and increasingly in blended families, black and white race relations are light years away from the newly integrated 70s.

 

[Sawfish]

That's my experience as well, @Alligatorob. The South, especially the rural South where people (emphasis on people, not race) interact on a daily basis at work, school, socializing and increasingly in blended families, black and white race relations are light years away from the newly integrated 70s.

In what ways are they different? Better/worse?

 

[Alligatorob]

In what ways are they different? Better/worse?

From my point of view absolutely better. @AnnieA is right in the rural south we are seeing more "people (emphasis on people, not race) interact on a daily basis at work, school, socializing and increasingly in blended families, black and white race relations".

From my own family I have a good example, in the 70s interracial couples were very rare, it was dangerous... Today my niece is married to a black man and he is well accepted by the family, as are their mixed race children. My grandparents would have disowned her. I am sure she and her family are not without some issues, but nothing like it was. Each generation is getting better about getting along.

 

[Catballou]

IMHO this is a discussion that needs to be had. I would hope that as seniors who are supposed to be intelligent and wise, we can explore this without getting nasty or crazy. I think the avoidance of these types of open discussions is part of the problem that leads to perpetuation. My friends and I (Black and White) have agreed on that.

I think that race relations are going backwards. Yes there was a little improvement by the 70s (improvements shouldn't have taken that long). White Supremacists are increasing their numbers and were further emboldened by you know who. My people are still being stereotyped and face profiling all too often. Black men and women are still being killed during routine traffic stops and in their homes because officers saw Black faces and felt "threatened."

I shouldn't have to worry that my son and grandchildren will fall victims to it...but I do because it is all too prevalent and real. Circa 1991, my son was picked up by his group's manager to do some recording in Jim's studio. Jim lived in Bergen county which was known to be racist back then. They were stopped when Jim was bringing him home; my son's equipment was visible in the back seat. The cop asked Jim "What's he doing in the car?" Jim said they had just finished a recording session, etc. There was no legal reason to stop that car and the cop was so brazen he didn't even fabricate one. He probably saw a White guy and Black guy and assumed that something concerning drugs was going on. Or he just didn't like to see the races mixing. I wish my son had gotten his name and badge number because they surely would have had to deal with me at his precinct. @Alligatorob

And isn't this type of racial profiling the essence of the "Black Lives Matter" movement? It's just sad that in the 21st Century, Blacks are still being treated differently...and often horribly...just because of their skin colour. Nothing infuriates me more when I hear a white person say, "Well, white lives matter, too." They just don't get it. I just wanna punch them in the forehead. And I'm white! White people like me don't have a clue what it's like to worry that our children and grandchildren will fall victim to racism. And, sadly, some don't care. I'm one of the ones who do care. You're right...it's important that these discussions continue. I hope that future generations of white folks will do better.

 

[AnnieA]

In what ways are they different? Better/worse?

Lol, read it again. Newly integrated 70s --> blended families today is a big clue.

 

[Della]

And isn't this type of racial profiling the essence of the "Black Lives Matter" movement? It's just sad that in the 21st Century, Blacks are still being treated differently...and often horribly...just because of their skin colour. Nothing infuriates me more when I hear a white person say, "Well, white lives matter, too." They just don't get it. I just wanna punch them in the forehead. And I'm white! White people like me don't have a clue what it's like to worry that our children and grandchildren will fall victim to racism. And, sadly, some don't care. I'm one of the ones who do care. You're right...it's important that these discussions continue. I hope that future generations of white folks will do better.

One reason these discussions don't happen often is that any diversity of opinion meets with this attitude of wanting to punch people in the head.

It's more complicated than just simple racism. The police kill about 1000 people a year. About half of them are white (but the news rarely covers stories about them.) About half of them are black, while only 14 percent of the population is black -- however 56 percent of homicides are perpetrated by black people, while they are only 14 percent of the population. Naturally this statistic influences police on the job.

Here is another statistic: 25% of people fatally shot by police are mentally ill. My son is mentally ill and I have a clue what it is to worry about him being killed by the police. He has been stopped by the police more times than I can count. The last time he was just walking down a country road. Walking while white. He was also once beat up by a gang of young black men.

The Black Lives matter movement has raised awareness of many things we needed to be aware of but it has also spread some false ideas. One I hear over and over is, "This would never happen to a white person." White people do get pulled over for no reason, I've been pulled over by police three times and was not breaking the law at any of those times. White people get asked to leave restaurants if they are creating a disturbance and haven't bought anything. White people get treated roughly if the resist arrest. White people do get shot by police -- in the hundreds every year.

To answer the OP question. I think things were getting better until about 2000. Now, I think the Woke movement is making race relations worse. It is making many white people afraid to do business with, or become friends with, black people for fear of being accused of racism if the black person claims to feel some sort of sub-conscious racism. We're held accountable not just for what we do, but for what someone else believes we're thinking. It's a form of thought police.

Lady Susan Hussey is the latest example. According to a palace butler, her job for 60 years was to attend functions, talk to guests, then report back to the royal hostess as to who various people were. She would always make a point of approaching people in native dress, to ask where they were from so she could tell the hostess, "That person is from Scotland, or Nigeria, or Poland, she has brought a gift for you, etc." Asking, "Where are you from?" was her friendly, opening line. Now, she's been asked to resign and slandered as a racist for doing just that, all because one woman claims to have felt uncomfortable.

 

[Pepper]

Very thoughtful post @Della

 

[Nemo2]

Asking, "Where are you from?" was her friendly, opening line. Now, she's been asked to resign and slandered as a racist for doing just that, all because one woman claims to have felt uncomfortable.

Synopses of earlier posts I've made:

- My supervisor's daughter/husband have a friend...Gahanian mother/Trinidadian father....born in England...Brit accent...of course people ask about his background.

- Me, born in England, escaped to Oz aged 17, came to Canada in 1965, spent 7+ years in Saudi, visited ~85 countries......yadda, yadda, yadda.....picked up terminology, (and perhaps pronunciations), along the way......might confuse some.......I don't get uncomfortable though.

 

[perChance]

To answer the OP question. I think things were getting better until about 2000. Now, I think the Woke movement is making race relations worse.

A brave and excellent post - thank you. To a lesser degree, the same thing is happening in Canada.

I just read the following article:
A Nation of Victims is Doomed to Fail
The obsession with victimhood is destroying our future.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/a-nation-of-victims-is-doomed-to-fail/

"America has become a nation of ‘victims’ and ‘survivors’. Everyone is getting over a ‘trauma’ or ‘processing’. They demand special privileges because of the suffering of their ancestors. They trot out studies which prove that they are somehow disadvantaged."

"Politics has been reduced to victimhood advocacy and we are worse off for it."

"Victimhood grants a moral superiority that liberates the victim from moral responsibility."

"Victimhood is obsessed with the past. Unlike survivors, victims never want to move forward. They want to remain tethered to the moments that defined them."

 

[Jamala]

Lady Sarah Hussey is the latest example. According to a palace butler, her job for 60 years was to attend functions, talk to guests, then report back to the royal hostess as to who various people were. She would always make a point of approaching people in native dress, to ask where they were from so she could tell the hostess, "That person is from Scotland, or Nigeria, or Poland, she has brought a gift for you, etc." Asking, "Where are you from?" was her friendly, opening line. Now, she's been asked to resign and slandered as a racist for doing just that, all because one woman claims to have felt uncomfortable.

You are promulgating incorrect information!

Lady Susan (not Sarah) Hussey had a role of an unpaid lady-in-waiting to the late Queen Elizabeth. Her duties involved assisting the monarch with daily duties, such as responding to correspondence, as well as accompanying her to engagements....not reporting back about guests.
What the butler was supposed to have said is utter nonsense (produce a link),

Lady Susan is a disappointment. Nothing to do with her age, but everything to do with the undercurrent of racism among the older members of the aristocracy.

Asking someone where they are from is not a problem and only becomes one when the person badgers you, even though, they have been told several times, they are from London!
Then to add insult to injury, Lady Susan places her hand on the woman’s body, moved aside her hair, to get a look at her name tag. How very rude…I am astounded!!!

Fulani was not the only one she quizzed that day, she did the same to one of Britain’s top lawyers Nazir Afzal, Chancellor of the University of Manchester and ex-chief prosecutor of the CPS, about his heritage. He was wearing a suit!!!

William and his father did the right thing by getting rid of her. Charles knows of the racism that exists among palace officials and some family members. I feel as King, he will be changing a lot of things.

Nice to see though, Lady Susan invited Fulani to the Palace and apologised in person to Fulani who graciously accepted her apology…all’s well that ends well and I am pleased.

 

[Della]

Sorry, I didn't mean to say that talking to people at functions was her only duty. You yourself just gave an example of her asking other people where they are from. It's been standard conversation at these international parties for years. I can't find the butler's video again, but here are a few other takes on what happened.

Lady Susan is a disappointment. Nothing to do with her age, but everything to do with the undercurrent of racism among the older members of the aristocracy.

Undercurrent? Perhaps you are the one who should be required to produce links.

 

[Catballou]

One reason these discussions don't happen often is that any diversity of opinion meets with this attitude of wanting to punch people in the head.

It's more complicated than just simple racism. The police kill about 1000 people a year. About half of them are white (but the news rarely covers stories about them.) About half of them are black, while only 14 percent of the population is black -- however 56 percent of homicides are perpetrated by black people, while they are only 14 percent of the population. Naturally this statistic influences police on the job.

Here is another statistic: 25% of people fatally shot by police are mentally ill. My son is mentally ill and I have a clue what it is to worry about him being killed by the police. He has been stopped by the police more times than I can count. The last time he was just walking down a country road. Walking while white. He was also once beat up by a gang of young black men.

The Black Lives matter movement has raised awareness of many things we needed to be aware of but it has also spread some false ideas. One I hear over and over is, "This would never happen to a white person." White people do get pulled over for no reason, I've been pulled over by police three times and was not breaking the law at any of those times. White people get asked to leave restaurants if they are creating a disturbance and haven't bought anything. White people get treated roughly if the resist arrest. White people do get shot by police -- in the hundreds every year.

To answer the OP question. I think things were getting better until about 2000. Now, I think the Woke movement is making race relations worse. It is making many white people afraid to do business with, or become friends with, black people for fear of being accused of racism if the black person claims to feel some sort of sub-conscious racism. We're held accountable not just for what we do, but for what someone else believes we're thinking. It's a form of thought police.

Lady Susan Hussey is the latest example. According to a palace butler, her job for 60 years was to attend functions, talk to guests, then report back to the royal hostess as to who various people were. She would always make a point of approaching people in native dress, to ask where they were from so she could tell the hostess, "That person is from Scotland, or Nigeria, or Poland, she has brought a gift for you, etc." Asking, "Where are you from?" was her friendly, opening line. Now, she's been asked to resign and slandered as a racist for doing just that, all because one woman claims to have felt uncomfortable.

Okay, once you mentioned "the woke movement" it speaks volumes about your attitude. I'll not even bother to comment in detail on your veiled racism. Not worth my time and effort. I'd rather see some of our Black members respond.

 

[Jamala]

Sorry, I didn't mean to say that talking to people at functions was her only duty. You yourself just gave an example of her asking other people where they are from. It's been standard conversation at these international parties for years. I can't find the butler's video again, but here are a few other takes on what happened.

Undercurrent? Perhaps you are the one who should be required to produce links.

Yes...undercurrent...which has been proven by the King himself and Prince William sacking her. They are aware of the "hidden racism" ....no need for a link.

" It's been standard conversation at these international parties for years."

Really?? how many of these parties have you rocked up to know this?

" can't find the butler's video again, but here are a few other takes on what happened." ....
how convenient!

No need for me to watch any of the videos you posted....I already know what happened!

 

[perChance]

Okay, once you mentioned "the woke movement" it speaks volumes about your attitude. I'll not even bother to comment in detail on your veiled racism. Not worth my time and effort. I'd rather see some of our Black members respond.

The woke movement isn't necessarily about race - it's about being a victim. The politicians are the only ones that benefit - they are trying to make us hate each other - and some are falling into the trap. We all have the right to express our opinions - no matter what race we are - it doesn't make us racist.

 

[Sawfish]

Lol, read it again. Newly integrated 70s --> blended families today is a big clue.

Ah.

So you're speaking of my daughter, then.

 

[Sawfish]

One reason these discussions don't happen often is that any diversity of opinion meets with this attitude of wanting to punch people in the head.

It's more complicated than just simple racism. The police kill about 1000 people a year. About half of them are white (but the news rarely covers stories about them.) About half of them are black, while only 14 percent of the population is black -- however 56 percent of homicides are perpetrated by black people, while they are only 14 percent of the population. Naturally this statistic influences police on the job.

Here is another statistic: 25% of people fatally shot by police are mentally ill. My son is mentally ill and I have a clue what it is to worry about him being killed by the police. He has been stopped by the police more times than I can count. The last time he was just walking down a country road. Walking while white. He was also once beat up by a gang of young black men.

The Black Lives matter movement has raised awareness of many things we needed to be aware of but it has also spread some false ideas. One I hear over and over is, "This would never happen to a white person." White people do get pulled over for no reason, I've been pulled over by police three times and was not breaking the law at any of those times. White people get asked to leave restaurants if they are creating a disturbance and haven't bought anything. White people get treated roughly if the resist arrest. White people do get shot by police -- in the hundreds every year.

To answer the OP question. I think things were getting better until about 2000. Now, I think the Woke movement is making race relations worse. It is making many white people afraid to do business with, or become friends with, black people for fear of being accused of racism if the black person claims to feel some sort of sub-conscious racism. We're held accountable not just for what we do, but for what someone else believes we're thinking. It's a form of thought police.

Lady Susan Hussey is the latest example. According to a palace butler, her job for 60 years was to attend functions, talk to guests, then report back to the royal hostess as to who various people were. She would always make a point of approaching people in native dress, to ask where they were from so she could tell the hostess, "That person is from Scotland, or Nigeria, or Poland, she has brought a gift for you, etc." Asking, "Where are you from?" was her friendly, opening line. Now, she's been asked to resign and slandered as a racist for doing just that, all because one woman claims to have felt uncomfortable.

Thanks for adding nuance beyond the immediate reflexive responses favored in any current dialogs.

 

[Sawfish]

A brave and excellent post - thank you. To a lesser degree, the same thing is happening in Canada.

I just read the following article:
A Nation of Victims is Doomed to Fail
The obsession with victimhood is destroying our future.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/a-nation-of-victims-is-doomed-to-fail/

"America has become a nation of ‘victims’ and ‘survivors’. Everyone is getting over a ‘trauma’ or ‘processing’. They demand special privileges because of the suffering of their ancestors. They trot out studies which prove that they are somehow disadvantaged."

Here is the biggest disconnect that I have: my personal value system makes me feel a huge degree of self-loathing to even entertain the idea of publicly identifying as a victim, even if I could objectively be labeled as such.

It is both shameful and decreases one's dignity and personal esteem.

Let the firestorm begin...

"Politics has been reduced to victimhood advocacy and we are worse off for it."

"Victimhood grants a moral superiority that liberates the victim from moral responsibility."

"Victimhood is obsessed with the past. Unlike survivors, victims never want to move forward. They want to remain tethered to the moments that defined them."

 

[Sawfish]

Sorry, I didn't mean to say that talking to people at functions was her only duty. You yourself just gave an example of her asking other people where they are from. It's been standard conversation at these international parties for years. I can't find the butler's video again, but here are a few other takes on what happened.

Undercurrent? Perhaps you are the one who should be required to produce links.

Linking is good, yes.

Links aren't definitive, but they are at least subject to closer examination, whereas hearsay claims to hidden authority are not.

"It's true because I say it's true..."

 

[Sawfish]

The woke movement isn't necessarily about race - it's about being a victim. The politicians are the only ones that benefit - they are trying to make us hate each other - and some are falling into the trap. We all have the right to express our opinions - no matter what race we are - it doesn't make us racist.

But, but...can't we use it to simply ignore your points because it's too hard to refute them objectively, and we wish fervently to cling to our personal beliefs?

 

[Nemo2]

I'd rather see some of our Black members respond.

You may want to repeat that over to yourself a couple times and see if you can spot any inconsistences.

 

[JimBob1952]

I don't have any personal contact with anyone of another race. That was true when I lived in New York, and it's true now that I live in Virginia.

It's not by choice, it's just the way it is. I have no malice in my heart toward anyone, anywhere.

So I can't comment personally on how things are. I can only say that based on what I read and see on TV, things look pretty bad.

 

[Nemo2]

One of the nicest, funniest, guys I've ever met worked with us in Riyadh.......he was black, half Sudanese and half Egyptian.

One day he commented that "All Jews should be killed"......I told him that he'd likely never met a Jew, spoken to a Jew, and perhaps never even seen a Jew......

We are all flawed......(well, except moi & Mrs Bucket of course.)

 

[Sawfish]

One of the nicest, funniest, guys I've ever met worked with us in Riyadh.......he was black, half Sudanese and half Egyptian.

One day he commented that "All Jews should be killed"......I told him that he'd likely never met a Jew, spoken to a Jew, and perhaps never even seen a Jew......

We are all flawed......(well, except moi & Mrs Bucket of course.)

Yes, of course.

Well understood...

 

[JimBob1952]

One of the nicest, funniest, guys I've ever met worked with us in Riyadh.......he was black, half Sudanese and half Egyptian.

One day he commented that "All Jews should be killed"......I told him that he'd likely never met a Jew, spoken to a Jew, and perhaps never even seen a Jew......

We are all flawed......(well, except moi & Mrs Bucket of course.)

I had the same experience with the Egyptian CFO of a firm I worked for. Lovely, kind family man who believed fervently in the eradication of Israel.