Is petty crime getting out of hand? And what do you think is the cause of it?

[Old Salt]

Increasingly little or no criminal charges because the value threshold for shoplifting has been widely raised to turn it from a felony into a misdemeanor -- a crime on a par with jay walking.

"California’s recent headline-making “flash mob” shoplifting sprees have brought widespread attention to Proposition 47 — a 2014 state ballot initiative, supported by a range of left-leaning and libertarian groups, which, among other things, boosted the felony threshold for shoplifting from $450 of merchandise to $950. Soon after it passed, retailers in California began reporting a sharp uptick in retail theft, often in plain view of helpless store personnel and distressed customers.
What has received far less attention, however, is the fact that California’s Prop. 47 was not an outlier among states. In the past 10 years, nearly half of all states have boosted their thresholds for retail felony theft. Thirty-eight states now don’t consider shoplifting a felony unless $1,000 or more of merchandise gets stolen. A 2020 National Retail Federation report on organized retail crime found that two-thirds of retailers in states that had raised their felony shoplifting minimums reported growing retail theft."

"Shoplifting no longer fits its traditional mold as a nonviolent crime perpetrated mostly by teens or substance-abusing adults. Nearly two-thirds of the retailers surveyed by the National Retail Federation said that violence associated with store thefts has risen, led by organized gangs that resell the goods they steal. Like retailers, top law-enforcement officials place some of the blame for the crime surge on a widespread lessening of penalties for shoplifting."
https://nypost.com/2022/01/22/why-shoplifting-is-soaring-in-the-us-and-will-get-worse/

They probably wanted to ease the overcrowding in prisons! They should have released all the prisoners who are serving time for drug possession instead! Not the dealers, the ones who were found with a small amount of drugs in their possession! And, no, I don't do drugs!

 

[SeniorBen]

Increasingly little or no criminal charges because the value threshold for shoplifting has been widely raised to turn it from a felony into a misdemeanor -- a crime on a par with jay walking.

No, that's not true. In California, the maximum penalty for jaywalking is a fine of $250. The maximum penalty for shoplifting under $950 worth of merchandise is six months in the county jail or more if the shoplifter has prior shoplifting convictions.

 

[ElCastor]

No, that's not true. In California, the maximum penalty for jaywalking is a fine of $250. The maximum penalty for shoplifting under $950 worth of merchandise is six months in the county jail or more if the shoplifter has prior shoplifting convictions.

Can’t argue with that, but there is more to the story …

“The practical reality is that most retailers have learned if they call law enforcement for a theft of less than $950, either law enforcement will not respond, or if they respond at most, what they will do is issue a citation [for court appearance],” Pierson said.
He noted that most theft suspects don’t show up in court, for which there are little or no consequences.
As such, most retailers in California have a policy that prevents their employees from reporting low-level property crimes, which is why the data for such incidents may be inaccurate, according to Pierson. Some stores stop reporting petty theft altogether because police “can’t do much.”
A store can be sued by an attempted robbery suspect who’s physically confronted by its employees.
“We’re a very litigious society here in California, and the stores and their insurance carriers really are afraid of being sued for trying to stop a crime that has little or no consequence,” he said.
https://globalcommunityweekly.substack.com/p/shoplifting-in-california-is-out

 

[SeniorBen]

Can’t argue with that, but there is more to the story …

“The practical reality is that most retailers have learned if they call law enforcement for a theft of less than $950, either law enforcement will not respond, or if they respond at most, what they will do is issue a citation [for court appearance],” Pierson said.
He noted that most theft suspects don’t show up in court, for which there are little or no consequences.
As such, most retailers in California have a policy that prevents their employees from reporting low-level property crimes, which is why the data for such incidents may be inaccurate, according to Pierson. Some stores stop reporting petty theft altogether because police “can’t do much.”
A store can be sued by an attempted robbery suspect who’s physically confronted by its employees.
“We’re a very litigious society here in California, and the stores and their insurance carriers really are afraid of being sued for trying to stop a crime that has little or no consequence,” he said.
https://globalcommunityweekly.substack.com/p/shoplifting-in-california-is-out

That's probably true, but it's probably been that way for a long time. In the early 1980s, when I was living in Houston, the apartment I was renting got burglarized and the police didn't do anything even though they had information that would identify the burglars. They don't get promotions for solving minor crimes so they don't act on them.

That said, Global Community Weekly isn't exactly a well known source for information. Looks like we're getting back to the old presumption that if it's on the Internet, it must be true!

 

[ElCastor]

That's probably true, but it's probably been that way for a long time. In the early 1980s, when I was living in Houston, the apartment I was renting got burglarized and the police didn't do anything even though they had information that would identify the burglars. They don't get promotions for solving minor crimes so they don't act on them.

That said, Global Community Weekly isn't exactly a well known source for information. Looks like we're getting back to the old presumption that if it's on the Internet, it must be true!

It is true. DAs in many large cities view rioters, looters, and shop lifters as victims of poverty and social oppression in need of counseling, not incarceration. Cops know the thieves will not be punished and likely gone before they get there, so why bother.

 

[Jules]

Often the police are overwhelmed and have to prioritize. They also know that a judge will toss a petty crime. Judges are weak on crime. Saw on the news that provincial leaders are meeting to put forward ideas that to deal with these criminals. One suggestion was that a repeat offender has to put forward reasons why they should just be given parole. It’s not up to the prosecutor to prove that they’re not. When someone has multi page rap sheet, it should be pretty obvious that they’re not.

 

[SeniorBen]

It is true. DAs in many large cities view rioters, looters, and shop lifters as victims of poverty and social oppression in need of counseling, not incarceration. Cops know the thieves will not be punished and likely gone before they get there, so why bother.

Well, they are victims of poverty, but that doesn't mean it's okay to make the rest of us victims of their crimes.

I don't know what the solution is, but I know one thing... forcing poor women to have children they can't afford to take care of is just making things worse. (I'm talking about the movement to ban abortion.)

 

[Sippican]

I have never shoplfted in my life. But it has occurred to me many times that the stores are set up in a way that makes it much easier to just steal an item than to stand in line (sometimes forever) to pay for it. I wonder if sometimes that's the reason.

I see the joke you made there...

 

[Pepper]

Poor people need money. Rich people need counseling. Or so it seems.

 

[Lavinia]

It all starts in the home...poor parenting is the cause of much of the problems in current society. Coupled with all the Liberal ideas which, quite simply, do not work.

 

[911]

Thanks, as I recall you are a retired law enforcement person, is that right? If so I am sure you have insights into this the rest of us don't.

Are you saying that even the FBI statistics are skewed to show less crime than they used to? It sounds like it. Do you believe there are any reliable sources of statistics of this kind?

View attachment 280973
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/20/facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

No, I don’t think the FBI skewed their numbers. Most police departments depend on their statistics, but let’s be realistic, with most police departments being down in numbers, they have to put their resources to work resolving the worse of crimes. Murders, rapes and the most serious felonies will get the brunt of those resources. Of course, kidnapping, especially if a child is involved would require most departments to put several of their officers on the job immediately. We look at a child kidnapping as an emergency that may require several police agencies being involved.

Investigating accidents, thefts under $5000 and the day to day smaller crimes kind of take a backseat to the more serious felonies. The state police, in many cases, also have to investigate fires through our Fire Marshall’s Office. Arson is always a possibility, especially if a restaurant is involved. Even the death of a person under the age of 65 who was not being treated for an illness would probably be investigated. When I worked in Investigations, I had as many as 25 cases I was looking at all at one time. I worked many hours on my own time, meaning I was not paid for my hours, but I considered it as part of the job.

 

[911]

In most big cities, it wouldn’t surprise me if all crimes weren’t getting higher. The reason being that the cops probably aren’t putting lot of time in solving these smaller crimes and the crooks know it. In some instances, they have these people on very clear videos and are recognized stealing stuff, but still don’t chase them down.

 

[Pepper]

I had an incident last week and some others thought I should call cops, but I have too much respect for their jobs to bother them over something that would have gone nowhere. Cops, to me, are reserved for life/death situations, not everyday annoyances even if they are harsh.

 

[Jules]

I had an incident last week and some others thought I should call cops, but I have too much respect for their jobs to bother them over something that would have gone nowhere. Cops, to me, are reserved for life/death situations, not everyday annoyances even if they are harsh.

Depending what it was, maybe it should be reported just for the police records.

 

[ElCastor]

Well, they are victims of poverty, but that doesn't mean it's okay to make the rest of us victims of their crimes.

I don't know what the solution is, but I know one thing... forcing poor women to have children they can't afford to take care of is just making things worse. (I'm talking about the movement to ban abortion.)

I certainly Do Not support any antiabortion movement!

It has been awhile, but I recall reading a news article about a woman who was arrested for chaining her daughter to a bed while she was at work.The daughter wanted to be pregnant so she could get a Project apartment and be with her friends. Not a great reason to have a child, and one that might become another fatherless kid selling drugs or shoplifting at Walgreens.