Man arrested in shooting of two Texas cheerleaders after one mistakenly got into the wrong car

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JustDave said:
Yesterday a gun owner said to me, "It's the person that kills another person. The gun doesn't work unless a person pulls the trigger." There are lots of variations to this argument in favor of freedom to own weapons, and they are all intended to end all further debate. Now the claim by itself in logically rock solid. And I've always weighed that heavily when considering what we should do about gun violence, and find myself caught somewhere in the middle.

But yesterday after hearing the claim for the umpteenth time, I got to thinking. While the claim is solid logic, how does it actually relate to curbing gun violence? Does it actually address the issue? It's a solid claim but supports the right to own weapons using the fallacy of non-sequitur (DOES NOT FOLLOW). It goes like this:

Guns don't kill people.
People kill people.
Therefore, restricting guns does no good.

The non-sequitur occurs in line three, which doesn't follow the first two. It's a separate claim or a new premise in a separate argument. It may or may not be valid. It's implied, quite clearly in fact, but it cannot be derived from the first two claims, even though those separate claims may be self evident.

Does restricting gun ownership reduce violent crime? In science, theories are considered empirically valid through testing. But we have no data available to eimpirically test this theory, because we have never limited gun ownership. Both owning guns and restricting guns are purely ideological positions, and we don't know what happens if we use one or the other to solve the problem. And without having actual knowledge, we have a controversy, a stalemate, and we avoid the issue politically.
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Yes guns should be sold in the housewares section of stores everywhere because they are just inanimate objects like knives. Or the power tool section because they are no different than chainsaws. 🙄
 

Judycat said:
Yes guns should be sold in the housewares section of stores everywhere because they are just inanimate objects like knives. Or the power tool section because they are no different than chainsaws. 🙄
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How about in grocery stores near the checkout lanes for spontaneous gun purchases. They could hang guns in plastic packaging on the racks like batteries.
 
SeaBreeze said:
Too many trigger happy gun nutters out there, welcome to the new America. I'm not against guns, but I am definitely against gun nutters. Things are getting worse as time goes by. :confused:
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Too many people who will suddenly and violently stab you in the neck for the $20 bill in your pocket, who'll toss your toddler out of the car he just hijacked from you while doing 50mph, who'll walk right into your house at 2 in the afternoon and run off with your TV, or worse, your 9 y/o daughter.

These people are everywhere, and they have no fear, maybe because, even when they're caught on a dashcam, someone's phone or home security camera, they are very rarely found, let alone justly prosecuted. I don't think police even look for them most of the time. I think they just hope they'll catch them in the act at some point.

Maybe there aren't enough police, idk.
 
Sippican said:
Funny, of course in CA......if you hate it so much what other country is better?
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It doesn't really matter. It isn't the country so much - l like the real estate; it is the poverty of the culture, the dog eat dog mindset and blithe ignorance of the blowhard population that makes it suck so badly. But I have no desire to live anywhere else and don't even travel anymore now. You always have to choose your company wisely wherever you go. No point in looking elsewhere. Of course the whole population isn't rotten but the gun nutters stocking up for the day they get to refresh democracy with the blood of those they deem tyrants by a vote of bullets is really ghastly.
 
Murrmurr said:
Too many people who will suddenly and violently stab you in the neck for the $20 bill in your pocket, who'll toss your toddler out of the car he just hijacked from you while doing 50mph, who'll walk right into your house at 2 in the afternoon and run off with your TV, or worse, your 9 y/o daughter.

These people are everywhere, and they have no fear, maybe because, even when they're caught on a dashcam, someone's phone or home security camera, they are very rarely found, let alone justly prosecuted. I don't think police even look for them most of the time. I think they just hope they'll catch them in the act at some point.

Maybe there aren't enough police, idk.
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I agree, but crimes like that have been going on for a very long time. Always good to be aware of your surroundings and do your best to react if attacked. Cops can't be everywhere all of the time, and those in rural areas are pretty much on their own to protect themselves and their families. I think there are enough cops, just the ones we have need to do their jobs whenever possible. That hasn't always been the case.

I have a gun at the ready in my home, so nobody is going to walk into my house to do any harm to me or my family without paying the price. However, for well over fifty years, I have never had to use a weapon for protection, thankfully. Those who are so paranoid that they run to the door or window at every noise or doorbell with gun in hand, ready to shoot and ask questions later, should not be near any firearms.
 
There was a time I lived in apartments, they all looked alike, even on the inside. I had my door unlocked and I was sitting in my living room reading. I heard my door to my kitchen open. I looked and saw a black man walk in and go to my sink...he began washing his hands and talking about he got the car running.

I walked up to the door opening and stood there looking at him...he grabbed a drying towel, turned around and almost had a heart attack...He was in the wrong apartment. He tried to get out of there, constantly apologizing...He was afraid I was going to shoot him...I had no weapon in my hand...I just stood there looking at him. Common sense told me he made a mistake. He was so scared.

Recently I was parked at a store, a woman came out not looking where she was going....I always keep my doors locked....she reached for the handle and kept pulling, took her keys out...then she looked up...saw me, looked at the vehicle, looked around...saw her vehicle (looked like mine), I could see the fear in her eyes when she first looked at me...She said...I'm soooo sorry...I just looked at her and smiled.

So many people act out of fear these days...Not everyone is out to hurt you...paranoia runs rampant.
 
SeaBreeze said:
I agree, but crimes like that have been going on for a very long time. Always good to be aware of your surroundings and do your best to react if attacked. Cops can't be everywhere all of the time, and those in rural areas are pretty much on their own to protect themselves and their families. I think there are enough cops, just the ones we have need to do their jobs whenever possible. That hasn't always been the case.

I have a gun at the ready in my home, so nobody is going to walk into my house to do any harm to me or my family without paying the price. However, for well over fifty years, I have never had to use a weapon for protection, thankfully. Those who are so paranoid that they run to the door or window at every noise or doorbell with gun in hand, ready to shoot and ask questions later, should not be near any firearms.
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Neighborhood crime is way up. Statistics that say otherwise aren't accurate, imo. I believe they're skewed somehow, like when a crime was committed but the charges were dropped or not even brought for lack of evidence. I'm sure those crimes aren't included.

But you mentioned something very pertinent - people are scared. I wouldn't use the word paranoid; they're frightened. You can hear about multiple personal, violent crimes on the news every day, and it is scary, especially to people who feel vulnerable.

I do believe we have a cop shortage. It's a demanding job, getting riskier, and it doesn't pay very well. People are far more public about hating cops than they were 10 or 20 years ago, and I believe fewer and fewer young men are interested in joining a police force. And it seems to me that a lot of those who do are less patient, overly aggressive, and more trigger-happy, and maybe some are just scared.
 

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