Can you survive if Social Security payments stop?

Thank you for making my case that Social Security is, in fact, a 'mathematically unsustainable' Ponzi scheme. The actuarial experts who designed the SS system, based principally on 'wage slavery' in a manufacturing based economy, could not possibly have predicted the large scale demographic, cultural, technological and workplace trends that have occurred since that system was invented back in the 1930's.
 

Brookswood said:
Not keeping up with inflation and a Ponzi scheme are not the same thing. Ponzi schemes are mathematically unsustainable and that is baked into them. A Ponzi scheme is doomed from day #1 to run out of people to keep on going no matter how wonderful the economic conditions are.

SS is having problems because we baby boomers did not have enough kids. And now our kind are having even fewer kids than we. (“Where are my grandchildren?” I hear that all the time from my peers.) Had both generations kept up a birthrate higher than 2.1 there would be ample funds in SS.
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you sound like my doppleganger - I have oft stated this across the airways on many sites and from apparently intellingent peoples get the response - that's doesn't matter we are still over-populated ; the world that is ; even though Italy say has been inviting foreigners to come and live in Italy - to swell the elderly NO - to increase child births!! If we have no children any more or very few who will pay into the elderly rescue scheme?
 
sch404 said:
Thank you for making my case that Social Security is, in fact, a 'mathematically unsustainable' Ponzi scheme. The actuarial experts who designed the SS system, based principally on 'wage slavery' in a manufacturing based economy, could not possibly have predicted the large scale demographic, cultural, technological and workplace trends that have occurred since that system was invented back in the 1930's.
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I can't agree.
 
When Social Security was signed into law in 1935 the average life expectancy for U.S. men was 59.9 years. For U.S. women it was 63.9 years. SS was very robust back then. People died before they ever received any SS benefits. Then they invented penicillin. Soon after they realized that smoking causes cancer. In the meantime WW2 happened causing a huge baby boom afterwards. SS was still good during that post war period. Then manufacturing jobs started moving to Japan and later China. Its been all downhill ever since. Without huge armies of new 'worker bees' paying into the system, it goes bust. Charles Ponzi would have been proud!
 
Dan Adcock, director of government relations and policy for the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare, said there is a "good chance" that in the event of a default, millions of Americans' benefits would be disrupted. "Seniors should be prepared if they're financially able," Adcock said, adding they should consider putting off discretionary purchases "so they have enough to tide them over."

But millions of beneficiaries have no financial room to maneuver, Adcock said, noting that about 40% of Social Security recipients, which include Americans who are disabled and those who are widowed, receive 90% of their income from the safety net program. That equates to nearly 27 million people.
 
sch404 said:
When Social Security was signed into law in 1935 the average life expectancy for U.S. men was 59.9 years. For U.S. women it was 63.9 years. SS was very robust back then. People died before they ever received any SS benefits. Then they invented penicillin. Soon after they realized that smoking causes cancer. In the meantime WW2 happened causing a huge baby boom afterwards. SS was still good during that post war period. Then manufacturing jobs started moving to Japan and later China. Its been all downhill ever since. Without huge armies of new 'worker bees' paying into the system, it goes bust. Charles Ponzi would have been proud!
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Average life expectancy is an irrelevant statistic for SS because it includes infant mortality, childhood disease fatalities, and other early deaths by people who neither contribute to SS nor receive any.

The more telling statistic is life expectancy for people who've reached adulthood, and therefore (presumably) participated in funding SS.

Americans born in 1935 who survived to at least 25 years until 1960 (60% of men, 71% of women), had an average life expectancy of 78 (men) and 82 (women). Not terribly different from today's life expectancy rates.
https://www.ssa.gov/history/lifeexpect.html

SS funding issues are largely due to the giant bubble of post WWII births AKA Baby Boomers, and subsequent drops in birth rates as Boomer women were better educated and had more varied/interesting adult opportunities than our predecessors. We often chose later marriages, later childbirth and fewer children. As did our progeny.

Educate women and birth rates drop. A universal truth.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/womens-educational-attainment-vs-fertility

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https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/womens-educational-attainment-vs-fertility
 
If you elderly folks own a house and run into financial trouble, you could also get a Reverse Mortgage from the bank and live on the house proceeds until you die. When you die, of course, the bank would claim all the value of the house at that time. If you have no kids, you have no heirs anyway.
 
spectratg said:
Dan Adcock, director of government relations and policy for the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare, said there is a "good chance" that in the event of a default, millions of Americans' benefits would be disrupted. "Seniors should be prepared if they're financially able," Adcock said, adding they should consider putting off discretionary purchases "so they have enough to tide them over."

But millions of beneficiaries have no financial room to maneuver, Adcock said, noting that about 40% of Social Security recipients, which include Americans who are disabled and those who are widowed, receive 90% of their income from the safety net program. That equates to nearly 27 million people.
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As the line goes in Independence Day...re: your first paragraph.."I've been sayin' it!" People don't want to believe it, even when it comes from SS officials. They don't have to prepare if they think the Calvary is going to swoop in and save SS at the last minute, but I'm doing my best to prepare in case they do not. Obviously there are many seniors who just can't do it because they can hardly pay for rent, food and medications as it is. Some have to choose which one to pay for each month. :cautious:
 
OneEyedDiva said:
As the line goes in Independence Day...re: your first paragraph.."I've been sayin' it!" People don't want to believe it, even when it comes from SS officials. They don't have to prepare if they think the Calvary is going to swoop in and save SS at the last minute, but I'm doing my best to prepare in case they do not. Obviously there are many seniors who just can't do it because they can hardly pay for rent, food and medications as it is. Some have to choose which one to pay for each month. :cautious:
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I'm hoping it won't happen, but am prepared if it does. A cut will surely hurt most. An interruption (unthinkable, but possible) if the debt ceiling issue isn't resolved, could be disastrous for the many millions living check to check.

Our federal government is heavily comprised of individuals more interested in one upmanship, asserting and maintaining power, and accumulating personal wealth, than doing their jobs, which is to serve the people they are supposed to be representing.
 
StarSong said:
I'm hoping it won't happen, but am prepared if it does. A cut will surely hurt most. An interruption (unthinkable, but possible) if the debt ceiling issue isn't resolved, could be disastrous for the many millions living check to check.

Our federal government is heavily comprised of individuals more interested in one upmanship, asserting and maintaining power, and accumulating personal wealth, than doing their jobs, which is to serve the people they are supposed to be representing.
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Unfortunately, you are so right in everything you replied Star! :(
 
StarSong said:
Our federal government is heavily comprised of individuals more interested in one upmanship, asserting and maintaining power, and accumulating personal wealth, than doing their jobs, which is to serve the people they are supposed to be representing.
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If you mean Congress, then I mostly agree. But if you mean the ordinary federal employees, which I used to be one of, then I strongly disagree! Yea there were a few bad apples, but we found a way to usually nudge those people out.
 
Don M. said:
The "threat" to SS is just one of the potential Economic Catastrophes the nation faces IF Washington doesn't begin to get the National Debt under control. If our government continues to spend without making provisions to pay it's bills, they will ultimately have little choice but to Devalue the dollar. If/when that happens, the majority of our population will be thrust into near poverty as the price of everything doubles or triples. Our politicians should review what has happened in Greece and Argentina in recent years when their leaders failed to do their jobs.
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Raising the debt limit isn't the real problem, the inability to service the debt is. Lower paying service jobs & AI replacing manual labor are impacting the amount of tax money flowing into the treasury. Less in more out as we seniors know means financial disaster is going to happen.

It's not if but when.
 
You folks are missing the solution for all economic problems. Find a good stock and put all your eggs into it. I purchased Amazon shares back in the late 1990's and they have made me economically independent. I don't need any social security. Plus, my heirs for several future generations will never have to work either.
 
Mitch86 said:
You folks are missing the solution for all economic problems. Find a good stock and put all your eggs into it. I purchased Amazon shares back in the late 1990's and they have made me economically independent. I don't need any social security. Plus, my heirs for several future generations will never have to work either.
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Well that's nice for you, but I have never heard any financial advisor *anywhere* suggesting an "all eggs in one basket" approach ... quite the opposite. If that one basket bombs, crashes, and burns, folks taking this advice would be destroyed financially!
 
Mitch86 said:
You folks are missing the solution for all economic problems. Find a good stock and put all your eggs into it. I purchased Amazon shares back in the late 1990's and they have made me economically independent. I don't need any social security. Plus, my heirs for several future generations will never have to work either.
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Good for you. I was into it early, but didn't have quite your conviction. As far as your description of it as "good" is a bit of an understatement wouldn't you say?
 
JustBonee said:
How many times in the past have they threatened us with this?
.... it's not going to happen!
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I think years and years of gloomy predictions desensitize us. Sure they may never eliminate Social Security but what I expect are other cost saving approaches.

Charge us more for Medicare and increase deductables. Make all of SS payments taxable regardless of other income. Freeze COLA increases. Raise retirement age and lower the age for RMDs.

The government will make cuts and expect us to be thankful the entire program isn't eliminated.
 
spectratg said:
If you mean Congress, then I mostly agree. But if you mean the ordinary federal employees, which I used to be one of, then I strongly disagree! Yea there were a few bad apples, but we found a way to usually nudge those people out.
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I should have specified "elected officials." My apologies.

I agree that most federal employees have the general public's best interests at heart and are likely extremely frustrated by the ridiculous self-serving elected officials.
 

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