Some good news out of China, well maybe

Alligatorob

Alligatorob

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Northern Utah, transplanted from Florida/Louisiana
Li Shangfu: War with US would be unbearable disaster, says China defence minister
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-65803311

China's defence minister has said war with the US would be an "unbearable disaster" for the world in his first major speech since taking on the role.

...he said the world was big enough for both China and the US, and the two superpowers should seek common ground.

Let's hope he (and the Chinese government) means it, and we find that common ground. Also got to hope our leaders are receptive to this. The sooner the better.
 

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This is yet another example of the Chinese Government "saying one thing, while doing the opposite thing " The Chinese Government is busy providing small foreign nations with free development funds for things like highway building, and infrastructure development, with Chinese construction companies, that only employ Chinese workers. A recent example was the building of the Bahamar resort and casino project in Nassau , in The Bahamas. Over 6,000 Chinese workers were brought in to build this massive project. They lived in closed compounds, with no contact with the local population in Nassau. The Bahamian Defense Force recently bought 7 Chinese built patrol vessels, for a very low price. This is just one example of many around the world where the Chinese Government is using their influence to bring small nations under their control. JimB.
 
jimintoronto said:
The Chinese Government is busy providing small foreign nations with free development funds for things like highway building, and infrastructure development, with Chinese construction companies, that only employ Chinese workers. A recent example was the building of the Bahamar resort and casino project in Nassau , in The Bahamas. Over 6,000 Chinese workers were brought in to build this massive project. They lived in closed compounds, with no contact with the local population in Nassau. The Bahamian Defense Force recently bought 7 Chinese built patrol vessels, for a very low price. This is just one example of many around the world where the Chinese Government is using their influence to bring small nations under their control.
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Don't most countries do similar things? Maybe not quite as restrictive as the Chinese, but most foreign aid comes with strings attached. I know ours is subject to the Buy America Act, requiring that some of the products and services are US based.
 

Alligatorob said:
Don't most countries do similar things? Maybe not quite as restrictive as the Chinese, but most foreign aid comes with strings attached. I know ours is subject to the Buy America Act, requiring that some of the products and services are US based.
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Yep, all the superpowers do it, competing for influence around the world.

Alligatorob said:
China's defence minister has said war with the US would be an "unbearable disaster" for the world in his first major speech since taking on the role.
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That is a good sign, rather than the counterproductive saber rattling that has been common in recent times.
Of course, always wait for the other shoe to drop...
 
Alligatorob said:
China's defence minister has said war with the US would be an "unbearable disaster" for the world in his first major speech since taking on the role.

...he said the world was big enough for both China and the US, and the two superpowers should seek common ground.
Click to expand...
War with China would mean the US and its allies wouldn’t be buying their products. They can’t afford that.

Also, this can be a backhanded way of warning the US that they shouldn’t interfere if China wants to take over another country.
 
Alligatorob said:
Li Shangfu: War with US would be unbearable disaster, says China defence minister
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-65803311

China's defence minister has said war with the US would be an "unbearable disaster" for the world in his first major speech since taking on the role.

...he said the world was big enough for both China and the US, and the two superpowers should seek common ground.

Let's hope he (and the Chinese government) means it, and we find that common ground. Also got to hope our leaders are receptive to this. The sooner the better.
Click to expand...
I'm relieved to read this because with all that's been happening with China's "aggression" lately, I was just wondering yesterday if we are headed toward a war with them. The Defense Secretary stated that while the U.S. does not want conflict with China, the U.S. would not tolerate aggression toward us or our allies.
 
Don't we have some top Washington officials headed to China this week, for meetings to help defuse whatever is going on?

Seeing different news stories on the Internet about such visits. ... some secret - some not so secret.


A senior US diplomat will visit Beijing next week, the State Department said on Saturday, the latest in a string of meetings as Washington tries to ease tensions with its "strategic competitor" and prevent relations from deteriorating further.

Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs Daniel Kritenbrink will travel to China and New Zealand from June 4-10 to "discuss key issues in the bilateral relationship", the State Department said in a statement with no further details. He will be accompanied on the China leg by National Security Council Senior Director for China and Taiwan Affairs Sarah Beran.

https://es-us.finanzas.yahoo.com/news/senior-us-diplomat-daniel-kritenbrink-093000792.html
 
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Didn’t a CCP Warship just pass within 150 yards of a U.S. destroyer in the Taiwan Strait in an unsafe manner and China warned the U.S. of provoking the matter? Who is poking the bear here?

I think our Navy has about 70 destroyers. I remember about 20years ago, we had 2 destroyers as part of our strike group in the Mediterranean while performing Air Warfare or in layman terms practicing taking off, strike your target and return to ship. Perhaps, the Navy men here remember it being called “Alpha, Alpha?”

I would like to know a bit more about what happened in the Taiwan Strait. Was the destroyer sailing alone or was it part of a larger armada?
 
Been There said:
Didn’t a CCP Warship just pass within 150 yards of a U.S. destroyer in the Taiwan Strait in an unsafe manner and China warned the U.S. of provoking the matter? Who is poking the bear here?

I think our Navy has about 70 destroyers. I remember about 20years ago, we had 2 destroyers as part of our strike group in the Mediterranean while performing Air Warfare or in layman terms practicing taking off, strike your target and return to ship. Perhaps, the Navy men here remember it being called “Alpha, Alpha?”

I would like to know a bit more about what happened in the Taiwan Strait. Was the destroyer sailing alone or was it part of a larger armada?
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Yes, I saw the video of the two ships. I can't believe how close it came. Also a Chinese plane came too close to one of ours recently and that was viewed as a provocation as well.
 
We need a war! There are way too many people and they are restless. Many countries in this world are holding a lot of protest marches over all sort of issues (digging graves, Gay Rights, etc.). A war would give them something to do; like a uniform and a gun and an enemy to kill to make them happy. Many people today are not happy. Gun violence is really up in Canada and the USA. Young folks need a purpose like giving up the phone and grabbing a heavy gun.
 

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We don't need to recognize Taiwan as an independent (although we should). We just have to defend it from Chinese takeover.

Every single advanced specialty computer chip in use today comes from Taiwan. This includes military, government, and industrial.

There is not a single industrialized country that could afford to lose access to Taiwanese semiconductor chips. Not us, not China, not Russia, not OPEC, nor the EU.

You do not want the CCCP, which is a tyrannical autocracy, to control the world's specialty chip production.

Yes, China makes a lot of chips. They're lower level, less powerful chips. They desperately want and need Taiwanese chips. And so do we. Biden's push for technology investment - whether you like him or not, this has nothing to do with politics - is desperately needed. Applied Materials' announcement that they will establish a semiconductor chip research facility in Silicon Valley was a direct result of this. It is one of the most important technology announcements in the last decade.
 
China's defence minister has said war with the US would be an "unbearable disaster" for the world in his first major speech since taking on the role.

...he said the world was big enough for both China and the US, and the two superpowers should seek common ground.

Let's hope he (and the Chinese government) means it, and we find that common ground. Also got to hope our leaders are receptive to this. The sooner the better.
______________________________________________

I'm going to savor this moment and this news.....it might not bear much weight in another week or so.
 
Alligatorob said:
Yep, its about time, long past time really. I think we should recognize sovereignty, but I know that would set off a bit of a firestorm. Can't see China going to war over it though.
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My spouse is Asian-born and prefers to get his news from global news media. His take (and I agree, historically):
Americans are viewed almost universally as weak, divided, and (no thanks to politicians who are more interested in grandstanding than the country's welfare as a global citizen) borderline untrustworthy.

Xi wants China to be great again. That will be his legacy, and he even has a public timeline for it - goal date is 2049 to surpass the U.S., at a minimum for China to be the supreme economic and military power in all of Asia, with the exception of Japan and Australia/NZ. Except for Taiwan, they don't need to actually take over any other countries; they will simply subjugate them by making their economies as dependent as possible upon Chinese "benevolence".

Therefore, expect to see more "close encounters" between both the Navy and Air Forces because China will push, push, push until we slap them down, and only then will they back off.

Xi and Putin are classic bullies. And historically, bullies do not stop until someone stops THEM. Again, this is global dominance, which does not mean you need to militarily take over any country. But it does mean that if you intend to draw a line in the sand, you had better be prepared to back that up all the way, because if you don't, you might as well lie down and let them stomp right over you.
 
yes I agree with some it is sabre rattling and china has been having some bad economic issues lately so needs to boost its trading - it could take taiwan any time it wants and hasn't because it would have some to lose too - the west including India is increasing hardware in the SC seas and Oz - this is now a game of one upmanship but also includes economies and trade. If China felt stronger it would do something more. It's not a totally safe scenario but well balanced atm imo and friends in HK too!
 
There was an article on China recently in the NYT and the comments section was a lot of fun. I upvoted what one person said - "China is 3400 miles wide and one inch deep." Very true militarily and economically.

Many people don't understand the definition of military global power. Most nations, including China and North Korea, can defend themselves against invaders. What defines a global power, however, is the ability to extend that power across air and water.

That is where China is very vulnerable. Like Russia, it has invested heavily in weaponry, but they are still at the "one strike" stage. If their first strike fails, they cannot back it up effectively. Both China and Russia armies have suffered from an excess of political corruption and a reluctance to allow any but a privileged few to make command decisions. When their armies fight, if the officers are killed, the soldiers have no idea what to do. China has built up its navy, but their ships are inadequately equipped and the crews poorly trained.

Both China and Russia are terrible at maintaining their equipment. Russia's flagship nuclear submarine has been in drydock for repairs for over seven years. I believe they just announced they are scrapping it (their resources are being sapped by the Ukraine war).
 
Nathan said:
True that, so at some point the U.S. will have to take the next step, either recognize Taiwan's sovereignty or validate China's claim.
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Lethe200 said:
We don't need to recognize Taiwan as an independent (although we should). We just have to defend it from Chinese takeover.
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So very true, doesn't have to be the "either/or" situation I spoke of [above].


Lethe200 said:
Every single advanced specialty computer chip in use today comes from Taiwan. This includes military, government, and industrial.

There is not a single industrialized country that could afford to lose access to Taiwanese semiconductor chips. Not us, not China, not Russia, not OPEC, nor the EU.

You do not want the CCCP, which is a tyrannical autocracy, to control the world's specialty chip production.

Yes, China makes a lot of chips. They're lower level, less powerful chips. They desperately want and need Taiwanese chips. And so do we. Biden's push for technology investment - whether you like him or not, this has nothing to do with politics - is desperately needed. Applied Materials' announcement that they will establish a semiconductor chip research facility in Silicon Valley was a direct result of this. It is one of the most important technology announcements in the last decade.
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Taiwan's chip Fabs are hot property, it is in the Free World's best interest to keep Russia and China from controlling the high end computer chip supply.

Personal: my son-in-law is Taiwanese, when I met his dad a few month's before the wedding we talked, and even though his dad has close ties and lives part time in Taiwan, he inexplicably seems unconcerned about PRC's current posture.
 
Packerjohn said:
We need a war! There are way too many people and they are restless. Many countries in this world are holding a lot of protest marches over all sort of issues (digging graves, Gay Rights, etc.). A war would give them something to do; like a uniform and a gun and an enemy to kill to make them happy. Many people today are not happy. Gun violence is really up in Canada and the USA. Young folks need a purpose like giving up the phone and grabbing a heavy gun.
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Sorry to hijack the thread, but if people are protesting over Gay Rights it is because almost 500 anti-LGBTQ bills have been introduced recently in the US. You seem to constantly make comments about how there are more important issues. You mentioned Climate Change in another thread. I agree, but every issue is important to those it affects.
 
One can expect our political neocons that are entrenched in both parties and the Whitehouse plus our Military Industrial Complex given success with pushing Russia into a proxy war with Ukraine, has been planning to do something likewise with China. There has certainly been considerable USA news from neocons about China attacking Taiwan so they will hate reading that opposite statement. The recent budget deal reducing the military budget was enough to send many of those war hawk politicians into ranting fits on news sites.
 
Been There said:
Didn’t a CCP Warship just pass within 150 yards of a U.S. destroyer in the Taiwan Strait in an unsafe manner and China warned the U.S. of provoking the matter? Who is poking the bear here?

I think our Navy has about 70 destroyers. I remember about 20years ago, we had 2 destroyers as part of our strike group in the Mediterranean while performing Air Warfare or in layman terms practicing taking off, strike your target and return to ship. Perhaps, the Navy men here remember it being called “Alpha, Alpha?”

I would like to know a bit more about what happened in the Taiwan Strait. Was the destroyer sailing alone or was it part of a larger armada?
Click to expand...
The USN ship was in Company with HMCS Montreal, an RCN frigate, which was also steaming in International waters. Canada has decided to send some of our RCN ships to the Straits, to conduct patrols. I bet this fact was not mentioned in any U.S. news reports. It was reported nationally here in Canada, on all 3 of our national TV networks yesterday. JimB.
 

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