Climate change is here!

[Alligatorob]

I really think all this climate change crisis stuff is a blatant power grab by those who use emergencies and temporary emergency measures to further their own agendas.

A lot of people believe something like this. And it is clear that many on both sides are using climate change for political advantage. Going well beyond what the science actually tells us in many ways. However that does not mean climate change, warming of late, is not real. Of course it is real, the earth's climate is not stable, its been changing for billions of years. Gaining a better understanding of that process can benefit us, we need to do it apolitically.

https://www.wgbh.org/news/commentar...to-a-new-ice-age-why-is-no-one-doing-anything

https://phys.org/news/2015-07-ice-age.html

https://realclimatescience.com/2021/11/new-ice-age-coming/

https://www.sgtreport.com/2021/01/new-study-claims-an-ice-age-is-coming-earths-climate-is-cyclical/

https://www.techtimes.com/articles/...r-minimum-reduced-sunlight-to-the-ice-age.htm

https://harpers.org/archive/1958/09/the-coming-ice-age/

Thanks for this, I did read these and found them both interesting and informative. However little there to contradict the warming we are seeing. Just good points showing that it may not last, but mostly scientifically based speculation...

The articles raise some important factors that could lead to global cooling such as changes in solar radiation, shifts in the Gulf Stream, and natural cycles. I am sure these are all possibilities, and will happen eventually. In the longer run, millions of years, more ice ages, more warming, cycles will continue. Human impact on the earth on geological scales will be less than we think, but not non-existent.

It is also true that the greenhouse gases we have released will contribute to warming, it has to. That will be on top of the cycles, and if something like decreased solar radiation triggers global cooling our CO2 will likely reduce or slow the cooling. One interesting theory along those lines is, "The Ruddiman Hypothesis" suggests our human induced climate change has been happening for at least 10,000 years and has averted an ice age that should have started ~5,000 years ago.


The early anthropogenic hypothesis: Challenges and responses https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2006RG000207

Not sure if I agree with Ruddiman, however it does point out the range of possibilities.

We had what I would call a nuclear year in 1981 because in 1980 volcano erupted in my country. So the particles from the eruption blocked the sun's rays and the result was a cold year all year long and extending into the first part of 1982. It had nothing to do with climate change but a natural event ie. volcanic eruption.

Absolutely, it is a part of our earth's natural climate change. Not really disputable. However it does not mean that humans have not also contributed. Things would likely have been even cooler after recent volcanic eruptions without the increase in green house gases and the like.

What we need more of is good climate research, without a political agenda driving it. That should include the possible cooling triggers, not just warming. It will help us make better decisions about how to deal with it, but only on a timescale of something like 100 years.

Most ordinary people, don't have the science backgrounds to offer meaningful opinions on a subject like global warming.

Some truth to that, and I suppose I am guilty. However we all live here, and we vote to support a government that will make decisions on issues related to climate change. So we need to do our best to understand what we can, we need opinions to inform our voting. Without that the political noise makers will control what happens. Too much of that now.

 

[Timewise 60+]

David777...don't bet all your money or you will be broke in a decade! By the way, people that think they are smarter, or have more information than other do, are usually the true fools...

 

[chic]

Why don't we plant more trees everywhere? I never see this, just more deforestation and construction of cheap apartment buildings where too many people live in too little space.

Trees take in carbon dioxide and emit oxygen. It seems like a workable idea. Wind power doesn't work well because wind energy is inconsistent & inefficient to meet our needs. Diesel fuel often is used to fuel electric power though they don't want people to highlight this point. I think there are a lot of simple solutions that are not being implemented while more drastic measures are being forced on populations instead. This is what makes me suspicious of the motives of those promoting "climate crisis" theories. Unless it is an orchestrated crisis?

 

[Aunt Mavis]

There’s no question humans are affecting the Earth’s climate, the issue I have is you’re not doing anything about it except yakking. (Not directed at SF members specifically) Wind farms aren’t green, EV’s and battery powered weed-eaters same. (I’m in the charging business so don’t try me please) ZPG (Zero Population Growth) should be priority one or our grandkids are doomed.

 

[JustBonee]

Yes, less people ^ .... and more trees @chic

 

[ElCastor]

El Castor, thank you for posting those. I appreciate your effort. I will check them out as soon as I get a chance.

Checking them out is more than I have done. Some may even predict that global warming will save us from the next Ice Age. I approach all these predictions with skepticism, but I recycle, minimize fires in the fireplace, and our next car, if there is one, will probably be electric. Bottom line, whatever we think, fear, or believe, we are just along for the ride. Whatever will be will be.

 

[Alligatorob]

Why don't we plant more trees everywhere? I never see this, just more deforestation and construction of cheap apartment buildings where too many people live in too little space.

Trees take in carbon dioxide and emit oxygen. It seems like a workable idea.

It is a good idea, however a limitation is available land. Much of the deforestation is for conversion to agriculture, to replace those trees we'd have to stop the farming. Some goes to other kinds of development also. We are pretty much using the available land on earth for one purpose or another, growing lots more trees would require changing those uses.

There are some programs to plant trees and the like in urban environments. However, I suspect its only enough to be a drop in the bucket, even if everyone did it. Singapore is a good example.

Singapore to hit target of planting one million more trees in 2027, three years ahead of schedule
https://www.straitstimes.com/singap...n-trees-in-2027-three-years-ahead-of-schedule

 

[Alizerine]

It is a good idea, however a limitation is available land. Much of the deforestation is for conversion to agriculture, to replace those trees we'd have to stop the farming. Some goes to other kinds of development also. We are pretty much using the available land on earth for one purpose or another, growing lots more trees would require changing those uses.

There are some programs to plant trees and the like in urban environments. However, I suspect its only enough to be a drop in the bucket, even if everyone did it. Singapore is a good example.

Singapore to hit target of planting one million more trees in 2027, three years ahead of schedule
https://www.straitstimes.com/singap...n-trees-in-2027-three-years-ahead-of-schedule

I get a lot of my news from the Guardian. I lost the link to this article but found that Mother Jones has it. We are no match for all these lobbyists.

More Than 1,500 US Fossil Fuel Lobbyists Serve as “Double Agents” – Mother Jones

 

[David777]

...We are no match for all these lobbyists.

More Than 1,500 US Fossil Fuel Lobbyists Serve as “Double Agents” – Mother Jones

Naw. The economic agenda deniers days are shrinking with each new extra hot day or catastrophic storm day because ultimately vastly greater numbers of ordinary people when uncomfortable being hot will rise up and vote against manipulative politicians regardless of what they try and do. By that time EV's will rule our roads with an excess of petroleum product production resulting in a price collapse due to simple supply and demand.

 

[ElCastor]

Naw. The economic agenda deniers days are shrinking with each new extra hot day or catastrophic storm day because ultimately vastly greater numbers of ordinary people when uncomfortable being hot will rise up and vote against manipulative politicians regardless of what they try and do. By that time EV's will rule our roads with an excess of petroleum product production resulting in a price collapse due to simple supply and demand.

Careful David, you are getting political. In case you didn’t know, that is a no no around here.

 

[Timewise 60+]

Checking them out is more than I have done. Some may even predict that global warming will save us from the next Ice Age. I approach all these predictions with skepticism, but I recycle, minimize fires in the fireplace, and our next car, if there is one, will probably be electric. Bottom line, whatever we think, fear, or believe, we are just along for the ride. Whatever will be will be.

What happens to the batteries in your new car when they need replaced? Landfill....!

 

[Alligatorob]

What happens to the batteries in your new car when they need replaced? Landfill....!

Good question, recycling would be best, and it does seem to be happening but still a work in progress.

A DEAD BATTERY DILEMMA
With millions of electric vehicles set to hit the road, scientists are seeking better battery recycling methods
https://www.science.org/content/art...rs-are-coming-what-happens-all-dead-batteries

 

[ElCastor]

What happens to the batteries in your new car when they need replaced? Landfill....!

I will let DC or Sacramento figure that one out, not my problem.

 

[Timewise 60+]

dodger...

 

[Old Salt]

Don't believe in climate change? The things below are becoming normal!

 

[Jules]

On the global news tonight they’re showing major floods in the NE US. Once in a 1000 year events.

Same in India and Japan.

I hope none of SF family are in any of these areas.

 

[seadoug]

A lot of people believe something like this. And it is clear that many on both sides are using climate change for political advantage. Going well beyond what the science actually tells us in many ways. However that does not mean climate change, warming of late, is not real. Of course it is real, the earth's climate is not stable, its been changing for billions of years. Gaining a better understanding of that process can benefit us, we need to do it apolitically.

Thanks for this, I did read these and found them both interesting and informative. However little there to contradict the warming we are seeing. Just good points showing that it may not last, but mostly scientifically based speculation...

The articles raise some important factors that could lead to global cooling such as changes in solar radiation, shifts in the Gulf Stream, and natural cycles. I am sure these are all possibilities, and will happen eventually. In the longer run, millions of years, more ice ages, more warming, cycles will continue. Human impact on the earth on geological scales will be less than we think, but not non-existent.

It is also true that the greenhouse gases we have released will contribute to warming, it has to. That will be on top of the cycles, and if something like decreased solar radiation triggers global cooling our CO2 will likely reduce or slow the cooling. One interesting theory along those lines is, "The Ruddiman Hypothesis" suggests our human induced climate change has been happening for at least 10,000 years and has averted an ice age that should have started ~5,000 years ago.

View attachment 293176
The early anthropogenic hypothesis: Challenges and responses https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2006RG000207

Not sure if I agree with Ruddiman, however it does point out the range of possibilities.


Absolutely, it is a part of our earth's natural climate change. Not really disputable. However it does not mean that humans have not also contributed. Things would likely have been even cooler after recent volcanic eruptions without the increase in green house gases and the like.

What we need more of is good climate research, without a political agenda driving it. That should include the possible cooling triggers, not just warming. It will help us make better decisions about how to deal with it, but only on a timescale of something like 100 years.

Some truth to that, and I suppose I am guilty. However we all live here, and we vote to support a government that will make decisions on issues related to climate change. So we need to do our best to understand what we can, we need opinions to inform our voting. Without that the political noise makers will control what happens. Too much of that now.

Well said!

 

[Wontactmyage]

We have had beautiful weather this year.

 

[Old Salt]

Naw. The economic agenda deniers days are shrinking with each new extra hot day or catastrophic storm day because ultimately vastly greater numbers of ordinary people when uncomfortable being hot will rise up and vote against manipulative politicians regardless of what they try and do. By that time EV's will rule our roads with an excess of petroleum product production resulting in a price collapse due to simple supply and demand.

What a lovely prophesy! One can only hope!!!

 

[Old Salt]

I am still trying to wrap my stupid head around this one: Our (Canadian) government has introduced a carbon tax on gasoline in order to reduce the consumption of fossil fuels! At the same time they are issuing rebates so that folks won't suffer too much from this new attempt to halt global warming! It must make sense since our government is made up of rational, intelligent people! Isn't it?

 

[ArnoldC]

Indeed, this certainly is a 'hot' topic. Seems there is endless support on both sides of the argument presenting convincing positions. Shrug. Caught in the middle again, not knowing which way to turn.

Reading today a government proposal is in the works to combat the record heat wave by providing low-income households with air conditioning.

I can't really understand how this solves anything long term and probably will only serve to further the problem by adding yet more demand on the power grid and discharging even more heat exchanged for cooling into the atmosphere.

True, low-income households are suffering and need relief. But, honestly, those in positions of power need to do better than this if climate change is going to be met head-on and held in check.

 

[Alizerine]

Careful David, you are getting political. In case you didn’t know, that is a no no around here.

He did not specify which politicians are manipulative.

 

[Alligatorob]

I can't really understand how this solves anything long term and probably will only serve to further the problem by adding yet more demand on the power grid and discharging even more heat exchanged for cooling into the atmosphere.

It doesn't make much sense, air conditioning is not a necessity. I grew up without it, doesn't get much hotter than Louisiana August nights with no AC. But we survived just fine. I have it now, but know its a luxury, one I have earned and pay for, like going out to dinner.

Actually until the 60s or 70s most all of us lived without AC.

 

[Murrmurr]

A lot of people believe something like this. And it is clear that many on both sides are using climate change for political advantage. Going well beyond what the science actually tells us in many ways. However that does not mean climate change, warming of late, is not real. Of course it is real, the earth's climate is not stable, its been changing for billions of years. Gaining a better understanding of that process can benefit us, we need to do it apolitically.

Thanks for this, I did read these and found them both interesting and informative. However little there to contradict the warming we are seeing. Just good points showing that it may not last, but mostly scientifically based speculation...

The articles raise some important factors that could lead to global cooling such as changes in solar radiation, shifts in the Gulf Stream, and natural cycles. I am sure these are all possibilities, and will happen eventually. In the longer run, millions of years, more ice ages, more warming, cycles will continue. Human impact on the earth on geological scales will be less than we think, but not non-existent.

It is also true that the greenhouse gases we have released will contribute to warming, it has to. That will be on top of the cycles, and if something like decreased solar radiation triggers global cooling our CO2 will likely reduce or slow the cooling. One interesting theory along those lines is, "The Ruddiman Hypothesis" suggests our human induced climate change has been happening for at least 10,000 years and has averted an ice age that should have started ~5,000 years ago.

View attachment 293176
The early anthropogenic hypothesis: Challenges and responses https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2006RG000207

Not sure if I agree with Ruddiman, however it does point out the range of possibilities.


Absolutely, it is a part of our earth's natural climate change. Not really disputable. However it does not mean that humans have not also contributed. Things would likely have been even cooler after recent volcanic eruptions without the increase in green house gases and the like.

What we need more of is good climate research, without a political agenda driving it. That should include the possible cooling triggers, not just warming. It will help us make better decisions about how to deal with it, but only on a timescale of something like 100 years.

Some truth to that, and I suppose I am guilty. However we all live here, and we vote to support a government that will make decisions on issues related to climate change. So we need to do our best to understand what we can, we need opinions to inform our voting. Without that the political noise makers will control what happens. Too much of that now.

So it makes sense to me to stop trying to stop it, and figure out how to take advantage of it instead.

 

[Capt Lightning]

One indicator of how climate has changed in the UK, is the number and locations of vineyards. Evidence suggests that the Romans in Britain (43 - 410 CE) were cultivating grapes as far north as the Midlands of England. Many English monasteries also had vineyards, so the implication is that the climate was warm enough for grapes to be grown.

With the dissolution of the monasteries and a cooling of temperatures, grape grown all but died out in the UK, but was revived in the 20th century.
English and Welsh wines ( this is not the same as 'British' wine ) are increasing in popularity and vineyards are spreading northwards.

So it seems that long ago, Britain was warm, cooled down, and is warming up again. I like English wine, it is improving in quality and can rival most other countries wines.