hearlady
Im now "heartheoldlady"
- Location
- N Carolina
We had a nice long spring this year then it got hot. Real hot.
Climate change is here!
- Thread starter Old Salt
- Start date
Nathan
SF VIP
- Location
- High Desert- Calif.
Thanks @Packerjohn , media may play up issues to alarm the public, that's how they get attention and make money. But, that does a dis-service to the serious concerns of the world.
The media focus' on "cruise ships & jet planes", which is silly ass and just a drop in the bucket. Then people focus on "cruise ships & jet planes", and think "how absurd"...now the real concerns are obscured. The bigger picture is that our overall use of fossil fuels(and the myriad of petrochemical products) are killing the environment. I don't really need to explain this, do I? Good, because I won't! The information is there, for the conscientious to know.
Alligatorob
SF VIP
Absolutely, and it should come as no surprise. Earth's climate is always changing, its never been stable, why should it be now? The earth has been warming for the last 15,000 years or so, but the rate of warming seems to have increased. And why wouldn't the greenhouse gases we've been emitting not have any effect? Of course they do.
That is a pretty settled question from the scientific side, a few fringe scientists don't believe it, but not many. Same for a lot of technical issues. I have no idea why it should be political.
What we should be doing about it is a very different question, lots of disagreement there and no certainty. It is necessarily a political issue. I am skeptical that we can do much to change it, even if we knew how to reverse it we'd never get the global cooperation necessary to make it happen. And we don't really know how to change things... Rather I think we need to invest in understanding it and figuring out how to live with the changes.
No, I remember it well. In about 75 I helped my major professor do some research on it for a paper he was writing. It was on the impact of global cooling and sea level falling on marine fisheries. It is an interesting lesson in how we often get things wrong. I believe we have much better science today and it does clearly show warming, not cooling. But we need to remember the global cooling experience and not let us get to arrogant about what we think is happening...
As I recall what Carl Sagan was concerned about was possible cooling associated with a nuclear winter. He believed that a nuclear war would generate enough particulates in the atmosphere to shade and cool the earth. He may have been right, but fortunately no nuclear war, so far... A few years later he concerned that the Kuwait oil fires set by Saddam Hussein's army would do something similar, he was wrong about that.
OneEyedDiva
SF VIP
- Location
- New Jersey
I'm so glad you weren't directly impacted.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
Most ordinary people, don't have the science backgrounds to offer meaningful opinions on a subject like global warming. Instead they glean shallow understanding through terse news and magazine articles or politically and economically motivated pseudo science articles of others with agendas. And if they as those with weak science and math educations, actually bother to try and understand the science even a little bit deeper, it all goes so far over their heads, so they quickly abandon it. Can you read these?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_cycling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_cycle
This best seller book from 2000 would be a productive place to start from for those with weak science while also better understanding we Earth monkeys place in the Universe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth:_Why_Complex_Life_Is_Uncommon_in_the_Universe
Just $2 plus shipping used on Amazon books:
https://www.amazon.com/Rare-Earth-Complex-Uncommon-Universe/dp/0387952896
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_cycling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_cycle
This best seller book from 2000 would be a productive place to start from for those with weak science while also better understanding we Earth monkeys place in the Universe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth:_Why_Complex_Life_Is_Uncommon_in_the_Universe
Just $2 plus shipping used on Amazon books:
https://www.amazon.com/Rare-Earth-Complex-Uncommon-Universe/dp/0387952896
Capt Lightning
Well-known Member
- Location
- Historic Buchan, Scotland
As someone who has an engineering and maths background, my personal unscientific experience is...
After a series of relatively mild winters, the last two have been 'proper' ones with sub zero (deg C) temps and snow. Spring was slow to arrive this year and was drier and cooler than usual. Plant growth has been later than usual and the weather now is just about normal for the time of year. As we would say, nothing to write home about.
After a series of relatively mild winters, the last two have been 'proper' ones with sub zero (deg C) temps and snow. Spring was slow to arrive this year and was drier and cooler than usual. Plant growth has been later than usual and the weather now is just about normal for the time of year. As we would say, nothing to write home about.
Timewise 60+
Senior Member
Some people who think they are really smart, are not!
Theories are not facts; they are just theories... Global warming is a theory, not a fact.
Do your own research, but the final answer is yet to be determined. So, move on and please stop trying so hard to convince others that you know the answers, as you may not be correct.
Theories are not facts; they are just theories... Global warming is a theory, not a fact.
Do your own research, but the final answer is yet to be determined. So, move on and please stop trying so hard to convince others that you know the answers, as you may not be correct.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Sorry but I have to disagree. When it comes to global warming, data collected and collated from all around the world in a variety of ways - weather stations and satellites - reveals increasing average temperatures of the land, the atmosphere and the sea. The globe is warming because it receives more heat from the sun than it radiates back out into space. Greenhouse gases trap some of the heat from escaping just as a blanket keeps body heat in the bed.
I agree that the end result is yet to be determined.
It all depends on whether or not we stop pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.
Aunt Mavis
I have met the enemy and he is us. Pogo
90 percent of jet-airplane traffic is unnecessary, 100 percent for cruise ships. Death from above (jet fuel exhaust) is excused just like death from a cruise ship hot tub. I say “preach it brother” unless you’re part of the problem.
Timewise 60+
Senior Member
You do know that you contradicted yourself on this post and basically made my point that global warming is just a theory, not a proven fact!
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
Geoffrey Widdison from Quora
"Been learning science since I was six, still getting started.
What would you accept as proof?
Since human being have been burning fossil fuels, the amount if carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has been rising. This is indisputable scientific fact. We can watch it happening from year to year. It's recording by measurements, large and small, all over the world.
Now, for decades, expert have warned that rising CO2 levels would result in rising global temperatures. And, by complete coincidence, that's exactly what's been happening.
Now, some people try to dispute that, but few do any more. It's true that the data has some random variation from year to year, but the trend is undeniable at this point. We're constantly seeing new global records set, nine of the hottest years on record have happened in the last ten years. We're far gone enough that even basic look at the data makes it clear that something is happening.
The only question is whether or not the two are connected. Denialists will claim that global temperatures shift all the time and it's just a coincidence, but their arguments, when actually examined, are inevitably riddled with misrepresentations, cherry-picked data (if it's no outright fabricated), and an insistent refusal to look at facts opposing their narrative. Meanwhile, there's a broad, scientific consensus among basically all experts in the field, and the vast majority of people with any kind of relevant scientific knowledge. People will insist that scientists aren't always right, but there has never been a consensus this universal and persistent that turned out to be wrong.
The only people who still oppose the conclusion are a tiny and shrinking group of contrarian researchers, people who are paid to oppose it, and people without scientific knowledge who don't want to believe it, for ideological reasons.
Even groups that aggressively oppose any government action on global warming often don't bother denying its reality anymore. They'll claim that it isn't as bad as projections claim, or that scientists are getting hysterical over a little heat, or that governments only mess things up, and if there's a problem, the free market will handle it. It's only the most aggressive ideologues, at this point, who actually deny that it's happening.
So, once again, what would you consider proof? The overwhelming weight of evidence suggests that it's real, and it's happening in front of our very eyes. If you look at the evidence and aren't convinced, I'd doubt that any evidence could convince you."
Old Salt
Senior Member
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada!
I don't think I know all the facts, I am going by what I experience on a daily basis! Today, for instance, our temperature once again beats an all time record! IOW, it hasn't been this hot on this day since records were started! We also had destructive hurricanes, of a strength never seen before in this area! (Fiona). Then we had all-time, unseasonable, record breaking lows that ruined our grape vines and many fruit trees! Are all those things a part of a natural cycle? I don't know, that's why I call it "climate change" and not "global warming!" And whole heartedly agreed, I am not an expert in anything! The older I get the less I know!
Old Salt
Senior Member
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada!
Sorry, I can't follow all the scientific data but, judging by the book, are you saying that a planet like ours is exceedingly rare and we have been horrendous stewards of it? And that Global Warming is real and we had better start to listen to science to stop the insanity? Or did I get that wrong?
JustDave
Well-known Member
Myrtle said:
Chic, you're not the only one that remembers the ice age warnings in the 70s but we might be the only two on this forum.
Chic, you're not the only one that remembers the ice age warnings in the 70s but we might be the only two on this forum.
I recall it too, but it never gained enough traction to outdo the science of global warming. It had a feel of someone coming up with an opposite idea on the grounds that someone else posed an idea. Then it morphed, as misinformation often does, into an after effect of global warming, so we could have it both ways. Shortly after that, Hollywood entered with a disaster movie where everything began to freeze and destroy civilization. The timeline for the coming of that ice age in the movie was like 30 days, but that clinched it as a "truth," and some people are still believing it today.
It's been around for more than 50 years. It first got my attention with the ice age claims. That came up again later during a cold winter when Al Gore kept getting caught in blizzards when he was making appearances to speak on global warming.
There are a few things in this thread that entertain me. One is 'earth monkeys'. The other is the obvious attempts to tell anyone that disagrees that they're too stupid to understand it. Weak argument but very entertaining. Ok, getting out of the way.
ElCastor
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern CA
Here, California a few miles north of San Francisco, we had one of the wettest coldest winters in years — including snow on Mt Tamalpais, the first I have ever seen. Reservoirs overflowing at the end of rainy season, and a cold windy July. Can’t speak for everyone, but that’s “Global Warming” around here. Is a new Ice Age coming? Some think so, and I would be glad to post the links.
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I'm not questioning you. I believe there are those people. I would like to see the links if you want to post them.
Alligatorob
SF VIP
Global warming is about as much a fact as science gets.
https://scitechdaily.com/global-tem...4000-years-show-todays-warming-unprecedented/
ElCastor
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern CA
https://www.wgbh.org/news/commentar...to-a-new-ice-age-why-is-no-one-doing-anything
https://phys.org/news/2015-07-ice-age.html
https://realclimatescience.com/2021/11/new-ice-age-coming/
https://www.sgtreport.com/2021/01/new-study-claims-an-ice-age-is-coming-earths-climate-is-cyclical/
https://www.techtimes.com/articles/...r-minimum-reduced-sunlight-to-the-ice-age.htm
https://harpers.org/archive/1958/09/the-coming-ice-age/
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Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I remember the 70s and the fear that the earth would be plunged into a dark cold season referred to as Nuclear Winter. The fear was based on the probability of a nuclear war breaking out that would trigger devastating fires all around the planet. The resulting smoke, thrown high above the earth's weather systems would take a very long time to dissipate, effectively staying in low orbit for years.
During that time heat, and even more importantly, sunlight would be blocked from the earth's surface. Without sunlight plants cannot photosynthesise, a process by which they take water from the soil and CO2 from the air to make food molecules that are the baseline of all the food chains.
After that, even if the war and radiation didn't kill us, starvation would probably finish off the rest.
Now that, my friends, is a theory because as yet it hasn't happened.
We had what I would call a nuclear year in 1981 because in 1980 volcano erupted in my country. So the particles from the eruption blocked the sun's rays and the result was a cold year all year long and extending into the first part of 1982. It had nothing to do with climate change but a natural event ie. volcanic eruption. This was what I lived through. I do remember it well.
Timewise 60+
Senior Member
Wow, the blind leading the blind...don't accept or believe everything you read! Verify it until it cannot be questioned...
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
For people who have not had the same scientific education as others, may I suggest Genesis Ch 1 and 2 in the bible. Ignoring the story about a talking snake, but looking at the message with modern eyes, it tells us the earth is indeed a special place, even a paradise, but the ignorant wilfulness of humanity meant that we have been fundamentally flawed from the very beginning.
As a species we are selfish and care little for the suffering of others or of the planet on which we depend for life. Our selfishness the reason why we refuse to tackle the most serious threats to our existence in this time - extinction of species, over which the bible says we have dominion, poisoning of the waters, the soils and the air we breathe, wars, that continue to ravage one country after another, and in which we participate for economic reasons and greed that causes poverty to millions while bestowing billions on the few.
Look to the end of the Book for the story of the Four Horsemen for a glimpse of where it will all end. When you do that you will see that the chance of humanity listening to the scientists is equal to the way we listened to the prophets of old. We as a species are often deaf to reason and truth because deep down we are still wilful and selfish.
Here endeth the lesson.
Forgive me, I won't do this ever again.
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El Castor, thank you for posting those. I appreciate your effort. I will check them out as soon as I get a chance.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
I'll make a prediction, that within a decade during the sunset for many of we seniors, a whole lot of wealthy people from across the globe that now live in warmer environments to the south, especially tropical, are going to be emigrating way north or way south plus well away from low elevation coastal areas. Here in the USA one can be sure, Wall Street real estate corps will make sure their politicians continue to allow visa overstays or sales to rich foreigners, no questions asked upon bringing in their extended families. Canada will do well. But for the poor and low skilled those same politicians that are currently allowing anyone in...Nope. We in the USA will eventually block access through our borders and many people will ignorantly blurt out, "Why didn't somebody do this years ago if it was so simple and easy?"
...$$$
...$$$