Recollections of the Hiroshima / Nagasaki Bombings

Susie said:
Yes, war is truly HELL!
Could have been even worse, if the US and Australia has been bombed to smithereens, all homes and cities in ruins and ashes, and to this day no underground BUNKERS/AIR SHELTERS for its citizens.
The most affected in Germany and Japan were the elderly, women and children, as most men were fighting the war or already killed.
I truly hate the "glorification of war" in films and TV! :eek:fftopic:
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The people of the countries that are at war are always the victims, not those who legislated it. I do not remember who to attribute this to. and that I am even quoting it correctly...but it says it all..."Our greatest enemy is not a particular group of people in a far-off country. Our greatest enemy is war itself.”
 

I'm detecting a sad lack of empathy for the moms and grandparents and children of Hiroshima and Nagaskai who were obliterated by those bombs. If the targets had been actual military centres that would be one thing, but they were folks just like all of us. No empathy at all?

And considering that Japan had been trying to surrender for several months before those bombs were dropped, should there not be a bit more remorse for 120,000 civilians that were killed in two days?

The following link is an actual CIA document and talks about the Japanese 'putting out peace feelers' from January 1945 and on until August when the bombs were dropped. https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...ence/kent-csi/vol9no3/html/v09i3a06p_0001.htm

And this document from CSIS explains the rational for dropping those things: http://csis.org/blog/understanding-decision-drop-bomb-hiroshima-and-nagasaki


Ending the war at the earliest possible moment - The primary objective for the U.S. was to win the war at the lowest possible cost. Specifically, Truman was looking for the most effective way to end the war quickly, not for a way to not use the bomb.

To justify the cost of the Manhattan Project - The Manhattan Project was a secret program to which the U.S. had funneled an estimated $1,889,604,000 (in 1945 dollars) through December 31, 1945.

To impress the Soviets - With the end of the war nearing, the Soviets were an important strategic consideration, especially with their military control over most of Eastern Europe. As Yale Professor Gaddis Smith has noted, “It has been demonstrated that the decision to bomb Japan was centrally connected to Truman's confrontational approach to the Soviet Union.” However, this idea is thought to be more appropriately understood as an ancillary benefit of dropping the bomb and not so much its sole purpose.

A lack of incentives not to use the bomb - Weapons were created to be used. By 1945, the bombing of civilians was already an established practice. In fact, the earlier U.S. firebombing campaign of Japan, which began in 1944, killed an estimated 315,922 Japanese, a greater number than the estimated deaths attributed to the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The firebombing of Tokyo alone resulted in roughly 100,000Japanese killed.

Responding to Pearl Harbor - When a general raised objections to the use of the bombs, Truman responded by noting the atrocities of Pearl Harbor and said that “When you have to deal with a beast you have to treat him as a beast.”






http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/General/atombomb/strange_myth/article.html
 
In the case of the rationalizations for dropping the bombs, #1 is logical (end the war ASAP), #2-#4 seems pretty pathetic considering it was helpless civilians who were incinerated.

And regarding Pearl Harbour, from the following link, it's suggested that Roosevelt knew three days ahead of time that the Japanese were looking at that scenario which then begs the question, why did he allow it to happen? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-memo-shows-US-warned-of-Japanese-attack.html


'...Without the remarkable efforts of the Soviet Union on the Eastern Front, the United States and Great Britain would have been hard pressed to score a decisive military victory over Nazi Germany....'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-memo-shows-US-warned-of-Japanese-attack.html

And Global Research goes on to point out that the then Soviet Union was instrumental in the defeat of the Nazi machine, a fact that seems to be missing from Western accounts of that war. '...The German army suffered 88% of its casualties on the Eastern Front. It was the Soviet troops who broke the will and capacity of the German army to carry out massive front offensives in 1943. The Battle of Kursk – that is the name historians must remember! Norman Davies writes that the key role of the Soviet army in WWII will be so obvious to future historians that they will merely credit the US and Great Britain with providing a vitally important support....'
http://www.globalresearch.ca/world-war-ii-the-decisive-role-of-the-russian-people-in-defeating-nazi-germany/5619

The Soviet Union lost 14.2% of their entire population as a result of their involvement in the 2nd WW while America's casualties amounted to .32% and Canada lost .40%. Of course there were numerous other countries involved with losses ranging from .0 (Ireland) to 17.2% (Poland). So it seems to me that any suggestions that the West 'won the war' is a rewrite of history especially if as the historian Norman Davies suggests, 88% of the German Army casualties were inflicted by the Red Army on the Eastern Front.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties


Sorry to the OP, I just realized that I've turned this into a debate instead of a collection of recollections about a terrible time in world history so my apologies to the young man who is just trying to further his education and understanding of that time in the worlds history. But who knows, maybe the above info will be of use to him.
 

I remember my father and mother talking about Pearl, and about the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagisake. They had great anger about Pearl, and they knew people lost there. My parents were in church that Sunday morning when the pastor announced that Pearl had been bombed by the Japanese -- it was one of those moments that remained fixed crystal clear in her mind all her life (the way the assassination of President Kennedy is fixed in mine).

Many from where I live were lost on the Bataan Death March and in POW camps. Those memories of atrocities perpetrated by the Japanese are still alive, also, and have been passed down to the next generation. The biggest hospital here at the time was named the Bataan Memorial Hospital, as a remembrance.

I never heard anyone of that generation express any regret over the bombings of Japan. The opinions I heard were that the bombings saved Allied lives, and that the Japanese deserved what they got because they, after all, started it. No guilt was ever expressed, nor do I feel any. Our President did what he had to do to get it over with.

BTW, the Germans were working on an atomic bomb, too, and God only knows what would have happened if they got it first. Sabotage of the "heavy water" facilities in Naxzi occupied Norway successfully destroyed the plant. The mission was carried out under the auspices of the British led SOE.
 
AZ Jim said:
Dad made Liberty ships in Long Beach, Mom was in Engineering at North America Aviation where they made Black Widows.
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My Dad made Liberty ships in the Brooklyn Navy Yard. He sprayed asbestos. Terrible stuff. He used to bring the fibers home on
his clothing. Eventually died of lung cancer many years later.
 
Shalimar said:
I beg to differ, Lon. My mother was a bomb girl in Sorel, Quebec, during the war. She stated categorically that two bombs were unnecessary, the second motivated by revenge, as was the appalling treatment meted out to resident Japanese in both our countries imprisoned in concentration camps after we stole their land. Funny, how we neglected to inter the Germans.
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I don't know if they were unnecessary. The targets perhaps but the war did need to come to a close. I wonder if they thought the higher ups would've thought another lost battle if they targeted just a large military unit. The Japanese were notorious for fighting to the last man, dig in and fight to last breath etc. It was a Samurai mentality. They found Japanese soldiers holding out after the war for decades refusing to surrender. The Japanese civilian cliff jumpers proved how Japan did not trust the US and would rather be dead than live under US or Allied rule-this became more apparent as they got closer to Japan.

I read somewhere that one of the reasons they dropped the bomb on cities was that the emperor and entire population needed to see what they were up against. The also had a chance after the first bomb to surrender right away. Unconditional surrender would not have been easy without the emperor saying it was necessary.

The Germans would've been a little tougher to intern because they would've been much harder to track down but it was selective to intern those of Japanese decent. I think they did let many fight for the US in the European theater of war. It was a shameful chapter in US history.
 
I'll start like this. We were sitting in Pearl Harbor with no war declaration with Japan when 2500 Americans were killed and 1700 more wounded, some to die later. I know some today are bemoaning our actions during that bloody war in using those weapons. Hirohito was considered a "god on earth" by the Japanese who would do anything he desired. He had already ordered a massive resistance to invasion, right down to women and children who were told to sharpen bamboo and stab any invader. They would all fight to the death. It is estimated that an invasion of Japan would have cost one Million allied lives.

If you know of the Bataan death march it alone reflects the unnecessary cruelty that was the posture of the Japanese during this time. Do I like that women and children were a byproduct of those bombs? No! But death of innocents are a product of any war. Prior to the use of the weapon the following took place.

[h=1]Primary Resources: Leaflets warning Japanese of Atomic Bomb, 1945[/h]pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/primary-resources/truman-leaflets/
Other Primary Resources

Leaflets dropped on cities in Japan warning civilians about the atomic bomb, dropped c. August 6, 1945
TO THE JAPANESE PEOPLE:
America asks that you take immediate heed of what we say on this leaflet.
We are in possession of the most destructive explosive ever devised by man. A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s can carry on a single mission. This awful fact is one for you to ponder and we solemnly assure you it is grimly accurate.
We have just begun to use this weapon against your homeland. If you still have any doubt, make inquiry as to what happened to Hiroshima when just one atomic bomb fell on that city.
Before using this bomb to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, we ask that you now petition the Emperor to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better and peace-loving Japan.
You should take steps now to cease military resistance. Otherwise, we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.
EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.
ATTENTION JAPANESE PEOPLE. EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.
Because your military leaders have rejected the thirteen part surrender declaration, two momentous events have occurred in the last few days.
The Soviet Union, because of this rejection on the part of the military has notified your Ambassador Sato that it has declared war on your nation. Thus, all powerful countries of the world are now at war with you.
Also, because of your leaders' refusal to accept the surrender declaration that would enable Japan to honorably end this useless war, we have employed our atomic bomb.
A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s could have carried on a single mission. Radio Tokyo has told you that with the first use of this weapon of total destruction, Hiroshima was virtually destroyed.
Before we use this bomb again and again to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, petition the emperor now to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better, and peace-loving Japan.
Act at once or we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.
EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.
Source: Harry S. Truman Library, Miscellaneous historical document file, no. 258.

Do I regret the dropping of the bombs? No! Am I sorry the Japanese initiated the ultimate reason that it's civilians suffered as they did? Yes.
 
The Japanese military in WWII was known for its cruelty and fanaticism. They committed many atrocities. No one blinked an eye here at dropping the bombs. Nothing but jubilation. The civilians may have been innocent, but civilians of all countries had become legitimate targets in WWII. We can look back in horror now, but as with all history, you have to put it in the context of the times it occurred. What you may want to think about are the after effects. After the joy at ending the war, the thought that there was now a weapon out there that could end us all, was on everyone's mind. The war was over, but there were air raid drills in the schools, and atomic bomb shelters were built through out the city. When we were planning to have kids, we thought very seriously about the possibility of an atomic bomb being dropped. It was a tragic event, but not having to invade Japan, probably saved Japanese as well as American lives.
 
" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-memo-shows-US-warned-of-Japanese-attack.html "

Still some fierce debate on this issue. I don't think Roosevelt/administration expected or wanted the devastating attack that took place on Pearl Harbor but he wanted a clear cut very obvious reason for the US to enter the war without question or hesitation. The US was quite the isolationist back then. Even had prominent figures supporting the NAZI movement like Charles Lindbergh. So after getting some disclosure on other historical events leading to war like the Gulf Of Tonkin or the Maine one must give this theory serious consideration.
 
However cruel the Japanese military may have been, Hitller still remains the undisputed bad boy,of WW 2. Six million dead is difficult to argue with. I stand by the opinion of my aunt who survived internment. I saw the keloid scars on her back. If she could avoid hatred and revenge, and embrace compassion, then so can I. She attended Hiroshima peace gatherings in Japan. I have a pic of her in the arms of a Japanese survivor, both are weeping. My nephew's wife is Japanese, My aunt went to the wedding, and toasted the bride in Japanese. Forty percent of my family are Jewish, two cousins are married to Germans. We also remember Dresden. The British Empire also committed war atrocities. Our countries would not accept Jews. Read the history, not just the self-serving propaganda, murky. No one's hands were clean. War is hell.
 
Shalimar said:
However cruel the Japanese military may have been, Hitller still remains the undisputed bad boy,of WW 2. Six million dead is difficult to argue with. I stand by the opinion of my aunt who survived internment. I saw the keloid scars on her back. If she could avoid hatred and revenge, and embrace compassion, then so can I. She attended Hiroshima peace gatherings in Japan. I have a pic of her in the arms of a Japanese survivor, both are weeping. My nephew's wife is Japanese, My aunt went to the wedding, and toasted the bride in Japanese. Forty percent of my family are Jewish, two cousins are married to Germans. We also remember Dresden. The British Empire also committed war atrocities. Our countries would not accept Jews. Read the history, not just the self-serving propaganda, murky. No one's hands were clean. War is hell.
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All duly noted, and fully agreed with. I have not seen anything posted about on going hatred towards today's Japanese or Germans. Just no regrets about what was done at the time. The Japanese and Germans of today could not be further removed from what they were during WWII. I watch the Asian and European news, and have great respect for both. They certainly are less war like than we are these days. Despite that, while sympathizing for the death of innocents, I do not think that dropping the bombs was an "immoral" thing. I still remember the unrestricted joy of VJ day. The whole world breathed a huge sigh of relief. I have no doubt that there were many Japanese mothers whose only thought was "my son is coming home".
A tragic event. Had to be done.
 
"...we ask that you now petition the Emperor to end the war...."


As I pointed out previously and supported with a link to a CIA document, the Japanese had been attempting to surrender since January of that year (1945) and their only request was that their Emperor not be harmed, so that leaflet that was dropped is a bit of a farce and in my opinion was an attempt by the government of that time to look like they cared.

When I was a kid, maybe 9 years old, my dad had a book that was called simply 'Hiroshima'. It had photos of the devastation, the 'shadows' on the walls which were all that was left of people who'd been vaporized, and it had pictures of the sick and dying. And yes, I did read the book, cover to cover, even though I was only a child and it was horrifying as a child to wake up to what people had done to other people who lived in that city which was not even a military centre.
 
Debby, regardless what the CIA document stated, many people prefer to ignore anything that would cast Into doubt the supposed morality/necessity of the H and N bombings. It is decidedly too horrific to contemplate the possibility of a mistake. It is also naiive to assume that no one objected to these bombings at the time. I come from a military family, yet two of my Quaker uncles were jailed as conscientious objectors. I am certain they had some strong feelings on the subject. I am also certain it was easier to bomb the daylights out of a people that were not white.
 
Shalimar said:
Debby, regardless what the CIA document stated, many people prefer to ignore anything that would cast Into doubt the supposed morality/necessity of the H and N bombings. It is decidedly too horrific to contemplate the possibility of a mistake. It is also naiive to assume that no one objected to these bombings at the time. I come from a military family, yet two of my Quaker uncles were jailed as conscientious objectors. I am certain they had some strong feelings on the subject. I am also certain it was easier to bomb the daylights out of a people that were not white.
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Fighting on two fronts was sapping our resources.. I've never considered the possibility that the bombings of H & N were racially motivated though. Interesting slant. I believe we had to get out of one of the Theaters and opportunity existed to do so in the pacific.
 
I think we have given Kyle what he was looking for. The feeling at that time was overwhelmingly one of joy at having a four year nightmare come to the end. I'm thinking of all of the horrors inflicted on innocent civilians through out WWII. Why do we not have world wide commemorations, with discussions of the morality of the Rape of Nanking, the bombing of Shanghai, the destruction of Warsaw, the every day systematic use, abuse, and extermination of the conquered populations of every land by both the Japanese and the Germans. The allies were not innocent. The fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo were just as horrific as Hiroshima. The only difference is that Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the suffering for everybody!
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Be that as it may.. Back then, war was specific and absolute. You knew the enemy.. you knew where they were, you could meet them on the battlefield. Not so today with the advent of global terror being spread through social media.. We have NO idea where terrorist cells lurk, or when and where they will strike, or even who gives the orders. We have traded conventional warfare in for covert intelligence operations. In fighting this we have given up some of our freedoms.. Privacy in our personal communications, and restrictions on our travel for example. Necessary? Some would say no. I'm not so sure.
 
Wow. I kind of knew ahead of time that this would be an emotional topic for most people that lived through the events. The assignment is to justify why the bombings were wrong from a first person perspective. Obviously this is going to be difficult to provide citations for but all of your responses will definitely be helpful. I will continue to check back and look forward to reading more. Thank you so much to each of you for your honest opinions and taking the time to reply.
Kyle
 
Shalimar said:
Not so. The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki have left a terrible legacy of birth defects that continue to this day. Also, the war was a six year nightmare for many, not four.
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The war still ended. Women and children, fathers and sons, who would have died, didn't.
I think the real reason we moralize so over Hiroshima and Nagasaki is the possibility that it could now happen to all of us.
 
Thank you Underock. It appears we share some commonality after all. Would be interesting to see the effects of estrogen based leadership. Testosterone does not have a pleasant record. Lol.
 
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