Left to die at the top of the world

PeppermintPatty said:
I think all sports extremists are adrenal junkies. These people thrive doing what they do and when you really think about it, dying doing what they loved to do is a great way to go.
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I've had that same thought in critical situations by myself in the wilderness. It's actually a calming experience. Maybe it's not logical. I don't know. I didn't care at the time.
 

Like a lot of videos that show something terrible happening. Did the person videoing from a vantage point seemingly on the same trail just behind the group stop to help. Then since he obviously wasn't left there why no videos of how the body was transported down?

Since it's possible to move the body, not helping & leaving the man to die IMO should hold some kind of legal liability.
 
Pepper said:
You reminded me of those Titanic people.
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Same type of mentality. They knew the risks and took them.
JustDave said:
I've had that same thought in critical situations by myself in the wilderness. It's actually a calming experience. Maybe it's not logical. I don't know. I didn't care at the time.
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Me too. Iā€™m a bit of an adrenaline junkie myself , just not to this extreme. Interior canoeing in the middle of nowhere , biking cross country, parasailing, etc., takes a certain amount of courage or insanity; lol.
Enjoying being challenged where thereā€™s a certain amount of danger involved isnā€™t that abnormal actually. The average amusement park caters to that type of thrill to a certain extent. I think the idea of having a HUGE challenge makes all the other stuff seem irrelevant in comparison. You can let go of all those worries since your mind is so acutely focussed on the task at hand. It ā€˜doesā€™ actually make sense to people who get it.
 

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Knight said:
Since it's possible to move the body, not helping & leaving the man to die IMO should hold some kind of legal liability.
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Even if some type of a doctrine of a "Duty to Rescue/Aid" were applicable in that Jurisdiction, it would not apply to such here, civilly or criminally.

Under normal conditions, maybe, at least under U.S. separate sovereign laws in the States, the Duty to Rescue may apply.
 
Once again the drama and false reporting from the Daily Mail and those who read it.

Here is what Kristen Harila (climber and first woman to conquer K2) who was there had to sayā€¦.

ā€œThis is our recollection of the situation. Gabriel, Nima, Lama and me started our summit push at around 8pm on the 26th of July. We had good pace from the start and we could see the fixing team in front of us before we reached the bottleneck.

The bottleneck is a dangerous place to be, there is snow and ice hanging over you, and you are walking on an extremely narrow path, on snow that can collapse below you at any time.

We all need to walk extremely close to the mountain and go through this passage as fast as we can. Every minute you stay there increases the risk of accidents, not only for yourself, but for everyone above and below you.

When we reached this place, the fixing team had left the bottleneck and we could not see them anymore as they were around the ā€œcornerā€ of the serac (iceblock). We saw 6 people in front of us. Mohammed Hassan was in another team and was number 2, Lama number 7, me number 8 and Gabriel number 9 in line. Behind us were a lot of other sherpas and climbers trying to summit K2 that day.

Then at around 2:15 the accident happened. I did not see exactly what took place, but suddenly Hassan had fallen and was hanging on the rope between 2 ice anchors. He was attached to the same rope as all of us, it was pitch black and we could hear him to the left side of us, away from the path.

We could also see that he was hanging about 5m down but we did not know if he slipped and fell, or if a bit of snow collapsed below him.ā€

 
If anybody is to blame it is the Pakistani company that sent Hasan on this trip.
Previously he had only portered in the Base Camp and this was his first time on such a dangerous climb.

He had very little experience and to be quite brutal here, it is not the responsibility for the actual climbers to risk their own lives to save someone. Climbers know the risk.

People stopped to helpā€¦ a couple gave him some of their oxygen. They were on a ledge in the darkā€¦. Should all of them be killed?

My heart goes out to Hasan, God bless him and his family. The Sherpas do this dangerous work to earn a living to feed their families. He was sent to do a job, he was not experienced to do.

If anyone here is a skier, you will know even when someone falls in the snow on a normal ski run, how difficult it is to help them back up.
 
I remember one YT video of an Everest climber who had no feet, so he tried it with artificial ones. Needless to say, it did not work out! What is wrong with people?
 
The man wasnā€™t made to go up further on the expedition than he normally did. He asked to go so he could make more money to help his mother out. Nobody forces these people to do this.

Apparently when he fell , he broke his oxygen mask and within 3 hours of that happening, he died. I donā€™t think anyone is to blame here but himself. It was ā€˜hisā€™ choice and this was a consequence of that choice.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
The man wasnā€™t made to go up further on the expedition than he normally did. He asked to go so he could make more money to help his mother out. Nobody forces these people to do this.

Apparently when he fell , he broke his oxygen mask and within 3 hours of that happening, he died. I donā€™t think anyone is to blame here but himself. It was ā€˜hisā€™ choice and this was a consequence of that choice.
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.
What didnā€™t you understand about my post?
I said he worked for a company.
He was an employee of Lela Peak.
They knew his capabilities.
They should have refused.
It is their responsibility!
They have a duty of care!

I have scuba dived many times.
When I wanted to do something above
my capabilities, I was told flatly No by the company!
 
it would seem that some want to blame everyone for this terrible accident - it seems Hasan was obviously sent on the trip and wanted to make as much money as possible - climbing Everest doesn't seem the safest and best way to do this.

His compnay had a duty of care but so did Hasan himself - we all have a duty of care to ourselves and to our teams too. This is a terrible incidence and of course for his family but his was responsible for his own safety also??

It is too easy to start blaming others claiming they should have done more and what [endangered their own lives and possible others in the process?] These climbs are the extremes of all adventures in the world and all their lifes were on a knife edge.
 
Jamala said:
.
What didnā€™t you understand about my post?
I said he worked for a company.
He was an employee of Lela Peak.
They knew his capabilities.
They should have refused.
It is their responsibility!
They have a duty of care!

I have scuba dived many times.
When I wanted to do something above
my capabilities, I was told flatly No by the company!
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Did you see me quoting you or referring to you in any way, shape or fashion?

NO!!!!!!

Iā€™ll kindly ask you to stop lecturing me about things you know nothing about. Once again, this is one of them.

Hint: these people arenā€™t scuba diving. šŸ™„
Everyone that goes up there signs a waiver claiming the responsibility is theirs and theirs alone.
 
davey said:
it would seem that some want to blame everyone for this terrible accident - it seems Hasan was obviously sent on the trip and wanted to make as much money as possible - climbing Everest doesn't seem the safest and best way to do this.

His compnay had a duty of care but so did Hasan himself - we all have a duty of care to ourselves and to our teams too. This is a terrible incidence and of course for his family but his was responsible for his own safety also??

It is too easy to start blaming others claiming they should have done more and what [endangered their own lives and possible others in the process?] These climbs are the extremes of all adventures in the world and all their lifes were on a knife edge.
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I think it's hard to pinpoint the company he worked for as the cause. This would be a matter for courts to decide, and ideally should be based on more than news paper reports. The part I stumble with is the assumption that he was inexperienced enough to not be allowed to take on "extra" responsibilities. I don't know how to make that decision, and I'm not privy to any on the spot conversations that took place before the incident.

From what I have read, a Sherpa is not just some out of work bloke looking for money. Now I could be way wrong about this, and it's possible that a Sherpa outfitting company could hire an unqualified person, but I'm under the impression, again possibly way wrong, that a Sherpa is part of an elite group that takes on dangerous tasks to get climbers to the top of the mountain, and they also take on rescue missions considered too dangerous for tourist climbers.

A Sherpa can refuse a task on his own, and they sometimes do. I should think wanting to take on a new responsibility would be part of an unwritten Sherpa code to prove their worth, but I've never actually read that. It's just an opinion based on what I have read about Sherpa identity.
 
ohioboy said:
Just how do you know that? Employment agreements many times have noted clauses or waivers!
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Because we have done our research. You cannot compare how things are done in the US or in the UK to Pakistan.

Unless of course you know better than my husband who has worked in Pakistan and is familiar with their practices.

Have you worked in Pakistan? Do you know the legalities better than my husband?
 
Jamala said:
Because we have done our research. You cannot compare how things are done in the US or in the UK to Pakistan.

Unless of course you know better than my husband who has worked in Pakistan and is familiar with their practices.
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Then he must know the employment practices of every Sherpa employer/company? Ridiculous!
 
Jamala said:
Climbers sign waivers....

Sherpas do not sign waivers... they are employees.
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It would be interesting to hear what you know about the sherpa employment situation. It is a very hard and dangerous job. I assume in a part of the world without the kinds of employee protections we are used to. And unfortunately where human life, particularly of the poor, is not as valued as it is here.
 
I think at times we de-humanize others. I think back to highschool football and the coach telling to "get out there and kill #18". The uniform hid the human underneath, so I went after #18 and ignored the fact he was just a kid like me, I de-humanized him.

On that mountain, in that danger zone, everyone had already accepted the risk of dying. So yes they all knew it was a person as they climbed over him, but there minds let them block that out. Most probably didn't know Hasan as a husband, father or friend, there was no personal connection, he was just another person on the mountain. Add to that all the speciality clothes and gear they wear and now each person becomes somewhat anonymous to the next, so you turn your focus inward and block out others.

We all can agree it was an awful scenario, we all want to believe we could have and would have done something. Personally I'm going to say it's almost a predictable outcome under the circumstances.
 
The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz is a book on ancient Toltec wisdom and how you can implement it in today's busy, fast, and ever-changing world.

The Four Agreements are:

Be Impeccable With Your Word,

Don't Take Anything Personally,

Don't Make Assumptions,

Always Do Your Best.

Read itā€¦ you may learn a lot.
 
Jamala said:
The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz is a book on ancient Toltec wisdom and how you can implement it in today's busy, fast, and ever-changing world.

The Four Agreements are:

Be Impeccable With Your Word,

Don't Take Anything Personally,

Don't Make Assumptions,

Always Do Your Best.

Read itā€¦ you may learn a lot.
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The Four Agreements is one of the most important books of my life. Thank you so much for posting its name!
 

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