The strange dance of perception and reality

For someone deep into science including neuroscience, I'll attempt to be brief without writing a book or confusing most members. Humans usually end up spouting nonsense when trying to use language to describe science things they don't have adequate knowledge to reasonably understand.

Earth creature animals evolved brains that create internal electromagnetic field (EMF) perceptual representations of their real external physical world in ways that allow their brain's thinking executive control "pilot" to operate successfully to their advantage in their world. Most people probably think that when they as in that mentioned EMF, see something, that they are directly perceiving their actual eye neural rod/cone neural sensors. Or when one feels something with touch sense neurons say in a finger tip that their EMF is actually directly perceiving that part of their nervous system in their finger tip. 3-dimensionally it sure feels that way. Same idea for all other senses.

But such are illusions because animal brains have a deeper structure our senses feed into after various degrees of higher processing that is the seat of what our EMF are actually directly aware of. That is why we don't confusingly see two independent visuals using our two eyes. Instead, the brain combines the two sense streams into a more creature usable deeper internal functional single view for the EMF that is the true seat of awareness. The validity of that interpretation becomes obvious when one considers the cortical homunculus.

375px-Sensory_Homunculus-en.svg.png


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortical_homunculus

A cortical homunculus (from Latin homunculus 'little man, miniature human) is a distorted representation of the human body, based on a neurological "map" of the areas and proportions of the human brain dedicated to processing motor functions, or sensory functions, for different parts of the body. Nerve fibres—conducting somatosensory information from all over the body—terminate in various areas of the parietal lobe in the cerebral cortex, forming a representational map of the body.

There is a long list of optical illusions that further prove that what our brains perceive are no straight representation of our incoming senses. Sense neurons only provide sense inputs that a creature can use. Accordingly our touch senses didn't evolve to levels of say feeling constant molecular vibrations. Nor do our human nose olfactory senses perceive fragrances at fine levels of other animals like your pet Fido, because there was no advantage for humans. Fido's awareness of some chemical may be closer to the truth but again is merely a wider range of an immense physical range. Fido can't smell the difference between of siliceous precious gems rubies versus garnets because that would have no creaturely use.
 

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If we can not prove that we exist, then how can we prove that consciousness is real, and we can expand it? I lean in direction of consciousness is also a mind generated conception. These people who seem to be so sure of universal consciousness are "conceptualizing" it. It proves nothing. Where is your life when you are in dreamless sleep? There is nothing. No time, space, nothing. I think THAT is what we are capable with determining. Na Da. Emptiness/ the Void. Out of the empty void arises phenomena/life and all the speculation. Humans haven't begun to understand "what" existence is or isn't.
 
Paco Dennis said:
If we can not prove that we exist, then how can we prove that consciousness is real, and we can expand it? I lean in direction of consciousness is also a mind generated conception. These people who seem to be so sure of universal consciousness are "conceptualizing" it. It proves nothing. Where is your life when you are in dreamless sleep? There is nothing. No time, space, nothing. I think THAT is what we are capable with determining. Na Da. Emptiness/ the Void. Out of the empty void arises phenomena/life and all the speculation. Humans haven't begun to understand "what" existence is or isn't.
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I am reminded of the allegory presented by Plato of "The Cave", where the prisoners in the cave are only viewing the shadows or representations of images they believe to be real. I think we are quite content to go on experiencing the reality we have come to understand and respond to.

We are all on a journey through our own personal tunnel of reality that is bounded by our beliefs. Our brain is a world class fabricator of reasons that justify all the things we "know" to be true.
 
I used to search for what I thought I did not have. It was not that I did not have instead it was where I did not look. I studied all of Carlos Canstenda books with a wish and desire to experience the supernatural. I craved power for an edge over my peers and humanity. My selfishness and pride that prevented self from being as one and all.
Freedom is a concept of life or death without bounds or binding. freedom is the ability to choose without influence. knowledge is what you choose to believe whether right or wrong it is knowledge until dismissed and replaced by new knowledge.
Reality is what we choose to believe, the contents of chosen reality is always true to the believer until believed otherwise.

Using mathematics and DNA compatibility it may be possible to predict a person's future by choices a person makes. I do not believe in freewill, there are too many factors based on influence that shape our decisions in life. Why does a person wealth live where he or she does, and is it unwise for a man with minimum wealth buy an expensive car and live on the high side of life. We use and act according to place and people we are a part of. Some things are bestowed upon you and other things are earned, one thing for sure, you will always be who you are
 
I guess modern Human gets up, follows his usual trail, has coffee, eats, goes where his interests lie, gets tired, rests, goes somewhere else, gets bored, goes back home to repeat. Most likely some kind of work comes in there somewhere. Some most likely never do much of anything. Self-entertainment lies there in all that. Maybe part of a group that entertain each other?

Maybe entertainment is the distraction from boredom. I guess if we weren't here, we would be somewhere else. Why do plants try to grow in sidewalk cracks. Why do squirrels plant their trees nuts. Why do ants blindly follow each other? Why do I get a creepy feeling following a line of vehicles down the boulevard?

There is the story of the Old Geezer born old gradually gets younger as he works his career. Maybe working wastes our lives? The story of doing the same thing repetitively and expecting different results comes to mind. I renewed my driver's license the other day. The girl said things were driving her crazy, I told her a joke. I had to take the touch screen test. I missed the red circle sign with a white bar. I answered stop soon.

At the end the station said 35 questions, I had had 30 questions and missed one. I asked the guy about that fact and he said I had to miss a lot more to take 35 question test. Well that made a fun time out of that.

Why do many under 1-year olds stand, hold something and take steps before they crawl much, then crawl a lot and stand holding onto something. Later walking more than crawling? Why are baby steps important to us?
 
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Mr. Ed said:
I used to search for what I thought I did not have. It was not that I did not have instead it was where I did not look. I studied all of Carlos Canstenda books with a wish and desire to experience the supernatural. I craved power for an edge over my peers and humanity. My selfishness and pride that prevented self from being as one and all.
Freedom is a concept of life or death without bounds or binding. freedom is the ability to choose without influence. knowledge is what you choose to believe whether right or wrong it is knowledge until dismissed and replaced by new knowledge.
Reality is what we choose to believe, the contents of chosen reality is always true to the believer until believed otherwise.

Using mathematics and DNA compatibility it may be possible to predict a person's future by choices a person makes. I do not believe in freewill, there are too many factors based on influence that shape our decisions in life. Why does a person wealth live where he or she does, and is it unwise for a man with minimum wealth buy an expensive car and live on the high side of life. We use and act according to place and people we are a part of. Some things are bestowed upon you and other things are earned, one thing for sure, you will always be who you are
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Indeed. Famous sets of experiments shows how oblivious the conscious mind can be to it's real motivations, and how busily it sets about justifying the products of that motivation. Our conscious mind is merely the press agent for other parts of the mind. It justifies whatever acts they induce, convincing the world that the actor is reasonable, and rational.

The adept lawyer in our mind is admirable in it's skill of confabulation, but never in it's search for virtue or truth.
 
On a side note: i question the purpose of awareness to a non living being? When dead, will remnants of our former life act as foundation to the hereafter?
Value is determined by need and volume, why are some people popular and others are not? life is beauty Padgett where society chooses not people who will wear the crown.

I wonder to what degree are our minds swayed by what other people think? How many people do you know are individuals, not afraid to be different and go against the status quo.
I am.a smart ass, I love talking to strangers and anyone else who will put up with my verbal shenanigan. I am quick to twist words and paragraphs into meaningless rhetoric with a pinch of sanity. It’s all good fun and experimental not a clue where or how the conversation will end.
 
I find this fascinating and revealing of how we perceive the world.

What do you see?
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You might be able to see the vase and the faces. But you probably can’t see both at the same time. Why is that?

Your brain has to make a decision about which part of the picture is the object and which part is the background. Maybe you see the faces. That means your brain is interpreting the rest of the picture not as a vase but as the background. Maybe you see the vase instead. In that case, your brain is interpreting the rest of the picture not as faces but as the background.

Imagine if you could see more than one version of your surroundings at once. It would be confusing! That’s why your brain evolved to select one interpretation at a time.

https://www.amnh.org/explore/ology/brain/optical-illusions-and-how-they-work/selecting
 
Paco Dennis said:
I find this fascinating and revealing of how we perceive the world.

What do you see?
62596a48310dfae716262bfb8fc25e76.jpg


You might be able to see the vase and the faces. But you probably can’t see both at the same time. Why is that?

Your brain has to make a decision about which part of the picture is the object and which part is the background. Maybe you see the faces. That means your brain is interpreting the rest of the picture not as a vase but as the background. Maybe you see the vase instead. In that case, your brain is interpreting the rest of the picture not as faces but as the background.

Imagine if you could see more than one version of your surroundings at once. It would be confusing! That’s why your brain evolved to select one interpretation at a time.

https://www.amnh.org/explore/ology/brain/optical-illusions-and-how-they-work/selecting
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What vase, what faces? All I'm seeing is a peculiar funnel shaped black hole digesting dark matter and expelling it out the .... ummm...... other black hole.
 
Very interesting. I don't think that an answer is easy. We respond to life in so may ways based on the input we receive and yet there are times and circumstances when we respond from the gut, instinct, "just know". Where does that come from???????
The best answer I can come up with is there something outside ourselves that gives us input.
There is a rhythm to life that provides stability and yet does not provide comfort. Why is it there? Where does it come from??
I believe in God. I believe that his son died for our sins. I don't understand yet I believe this is true.
My life reflects many times when God intervened to save me from myself yet I don't know why. He didn't save my daughter from suicide yet I still breath the air, see the blue sky, hear the birds chirp and wish my daughter could hear this also.
I don't know, we are not in charge. who is????
 
your daughter may very well still hear it all but with different tunings know? my younger bros was an accomplished guitar player - dided 10 yrs ago - I have been blessed with listening to him again through a grandson guitar player just cut and released his first tune! blessing fellow traveller. there is a script in the holy scriptures that says and I paraphrase " you may still feel the pain but I [God] will be with you and help you bear that pain"??
 
I believe she does but I often wish she was here, just to hug her. She had a mind of her own and a talent that defies description. But like all extremely talented people.... they march to their own drummer. They are not like us, hence they view the world in a different way. The routine of life, as we know it is not what they see or want.
How many extremely talented people have succumbed to drugs or suicide. Too many. The flame burns bright just before it goes out.
rbtvgo
 
God also is purported to have said in the early chapters of Genesis - "I give you free will.............." that can also mean free will to do many things including drug taking and murdering others ..........he didn't put any caveats on it as far as many memory goes. Then of course a few eons later he appeared in the form of Christ and sorta said " let me show you a few miracles .........teach a few lessons.......including being nailed to a cross -die and then resurrect meself. Neat tricks heh?? many must have followed his teachings and examples but left out the resurrection trick?
 
Perception is how we see the world. Reality is how it really is. No one can change reality, but we can each change our perception of the world. It’s one of those psychosomatic things that if we allow our minds to control our thinking, we can all be living in a Utopian Society, if that’s what we believe, but in reality, life doesn’t work that way. Usually, our mind will know the difference, unless we have a Sociopath disorder. It’s where the old adage “Looking at life through rose colored glasses” comes from.
 
davey said:
God also is purported to have said in the early chapters of Genesis - "I give you free will.............." that can also mean free will to do many things including drug taking and murdering others ..........he didn't put any caveats on it as far as many memory goes. Then of course a few eons later he appeared in the form of Christ and sorta said " let me show you a few miracles .........teach a few lessons.......including being nailed to a cross -die and then resurrect meself. Neat tricks heh?? many must have followed his teachings and examples but left out the resurrection trick?
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You have it all figured out...........................yet, you are not even close in understanding.
It's all a neat trick right?
The churches, in every town are filled with idiots, every Sunday because they don't get it!
Christmas is the celebration of Christ birth. Oh no, wait a minute....it's the celebration of Santa Claus.
Free will does not give you justification for your actions. It just means that, being created in the image of God, (check your bible) you can make your own decisions.
Those decisions have consequence in Gods domain, which this is.
Happy with your understanding....fine. Just don't try to impress others.
Especially me.
My daughter died caught between two worlds. This one and the world she knew existed with God. She chose God.
 
bobcat48 said:
There is a huge difference between factual reality and the reality we actually experience. The earth is spinning at about 1000 mph, and we are moving at about 67,000 miles per hour around the sun, not to mention how fast our solar system and galaxy are moving through space. But everything feels stable.

Likewise, our bodies consist entirely of atoms, which are 99.9999999% empty space (With the exception of energy and quantum fields), which would seem to make us energy beings, but our experiential existence tells a different story.

Objects don't really have color, they just reflect some of the light spectrum, but not others, so we see them as having color. Perception is so different from reality, and I won't even touch on quantum physics, which, as they say, "If it doesn't blow your mind, then you don't understand it".

Is most of our life just an illusion we dance with?

Do we even have free will, or is that an illusion too?
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Honestly. I'm pretty sure none of that matters. Even if it's someones fever dream, it feels real to me, so I'm going with that. There are huge questions that have yet to be answered, and they won't be in my life time. I can only work on what I know first hand. I think of this type of thing as "navel gazing".
 
Free will does not give you justification for your actions - I never said it did - I just said 'it was given'..............maybe with a few tips but we were never robots dancing to the God tune - why do you think there is evil in the world?/ = free will= why greed and cheating etc etc free will - I am not here to impress anyone not even myself - just share thoughts - your daughter may very well be at peace with God and following you around as you type. Do you ever feel her close by?
 
VaughanJB said:
Honestly. I'm pretty sure none of that matters. Even if it's someones fever dream, it feels real to me, so I'm going with that. There are huge questions that have yet to be answered, and they won't be in my life time. I can only work on what I know first hand. I think of this type of thing as "navel gazing".
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Perhaps you're right, and that our personal perception is all that really matters in the long run, but I also think that sudden epiphanies and realizations can change a person's beliefs and even life direction. Many people don't get into deep thought because it can be a rabbit hole, but sometimes observations can revolutionize how we view life. Charles Darwin was almost afraid to publish his findings because the ripples of that new theory could, and did change our understanding of how humans, and all other life forms came about.
 

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