Will our downtowns be ghost towns in another twenty years?

hollydolly said:
Did those smaller villages and towns previously have a bank and supermarket and Post office.. as they did here ?
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Yes they had all of them.
My father comes from the countryside, so I was often in his hometown and still have relatives there. Of course, a lot has changed there. People always say that people are moving to the city, but there are still as many people living in the town as there used to be (certainly that's not the case everywhere).

Life changes, you have to adapt whether you want to or not.
Do you really need the clothing store in town? Probably not, but of course you also have to know how to buy things online.
Who still often needs the post office? When I go to the post office, it's for returns that I bought online before:)
 

Old Salt said:
Will our downtowns be ghost towns in another twenty years?
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I don't think so, not most of them. Things are changing and so are downtowns but this isn't the first time, I remember thinking shopping malls would kill the downtowns, that didn't happen, they just changed.

Been There said:
In St. Petersburg? I heard that the Bay Front took on a whole new renovation in the last 5 or so years.
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I grew up in Dunedin, just north of St Pete, the downtown was dying then, we used to call it the "city of the living dead". Full of people... well like us. They all died long ago, but the downtown has managed several revivals since. Have not been there in a long time, sounds like I should go see it again. When I was very young we used to take the train from Dunedin to shop downtown St Pete, when it stopped running my mother was sure that would kill it. Didn't, and today the old rail line we used to ride is a bike path.
 
Tomkin said:
Yes they had all of them.
My father comes from the countryside, so I was often in his hometown and still have relatives there. Of course, a lot has changed there. People always say that people are moving to the city, but there are still as many people living in the town as there used to be (certainly that's not the case everywhere).

Life changes, you have to adapt whether you want to or not.
Do you really need the clothing store in town? Probably not, but of course you also have to know how to buy things online.
Who still often needs the post office? When I go to the post office, it's for returns that I bought online before:)
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Here as you say there's as many , actually more people than before living in town... but Post offices are closing as stand alone shops and becoming merged into newsagents or little grocery stores ( not supermarkets)... many have closed. Post Offices are used here extensively especially by pensioners... and of course by the public at large to send mail and parcels and to do banking and pay Utility bills..

Yes we need a clothing store in town.. especially for people who don't use or want to use the Online process, and there's many reasons for that ... people like to try things on before purchasing.. people might want to buy something needed for the same day... parents need to buy clothing for children.. they need to be tried on.. not have the hassle of waiting for something to arrive in the post which might not fit...
 

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Today, people just order three sizes and send back the two pieces that don't fit. I would also like it to be different but especially the buying behavior has changed a lot. You no longer go shopping and buy something you like. You see a piece of clothing online and then want to have exactly this.

I am disappointed every time by the sationary trade. Even many of the stores have to order the goods first and then you can pick them up or get them sent home. On top of that you pay more - I don't need stores for that.

Of course, some people have problems with it or don't want it that way. But I don't think it's possible to stop the development. I also do not always think it is good.
 
Taxes, politics, lawlessness, demise of society, reduced/ineffective police forces, immigration, in some cities, government takeover of hotels, there are many more reasons why downtowns are being systematically pulled apart business by business.

As far a chain stores, they would rather you do your shopping online. Less expensive for them, greater selection.
 
Tomkin said:
Today, people just order three sizes and send back the two pieces that don't fit. I would also like it to be different but especially the buying behavior has changed a lot. You no longer go shopping and buy something you like. You see a piece of clothing online and then want to have exactly this.
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NO..I don't do any of my shopping like that. ..I only buy one thing..never more to send back..I only buy things I like ...and I certainly don't see a piece of clothing online and decide I must have it...


You have the wrong demographic...
 
hollydolly said:
NO..I don't do any of my shopping like that.
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I didn't say you do it that way. I don't do it that way either :)
But it doesn't change the fact that the buying behavior of many people is moving in this direction and is becoming more and more so. The stationary trade has not reacted to this development at all. That's why it has fallen behind online retail.
 
Old Salt said:
I just saw a video yesterday that really shocked me. A lengthy view of a part of Market Street in San Francisco! Closed down, banks, businesses, restaurants! This part of SF is starting to look like a ghost town. I always blamed Walmart for the sad demise of small town business, but now this. I checked more cities and sure enough, the rot is starting to show there as well! Who do we blame? Amazon and similar on-line retailers? How can we beautify what's left, or will people get tired of on-line shopping?
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We are going to need a lot of apartments for all the illegals coming into our country. Just like when the government ran the HUD program, well, here we go again. Guess who is going to pay the bills? It won’t be the rich or wealthy. It will be good old John Q. Public (again).
 
Old Salt said:
I just saw a video yesterday that really shocked me. A lengthy view of a part of Market Street in San Francisco! Closed down, banks, businesses, restaurants! ...Who do we blame? ...
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Wall Street financial and real estate corporations and their puppet politicians with endless growth and development including population growth, though their dominant media will point fingers everywhere but at them.

The most serious issue in San Francisco is homelessness and crime, both aggravated by our huge rich to poor wealth gap. A gap that did not exist decades ago when I grew up until politicians embraced a global economy. Both issues that could readily be fixed were it not for entrenched politicians that are controlled by advocates to keep the sad status quo.

The prime reason we have essentially open borders and visa overstays. Visa overstays allows the world's rich to come here, buy our now way over-priced real estate, often pricing out our working class USA citizens, and set up with full documentation extended families no questions asked. At the other end, poor folks from throughout the planet storm through our borders that puts immense pressure on the limited supply of older less expensive housing that our own poor used to mostly live in.

Instead the only housing that is being built by real estate developers is expensive upper middle class housing that our lower and mid working classes are then forced to live in going into monstrous debt because they have no other choice. The immigrating ethnic poor just live densely with multiple families and persons living in homes and apartments meant for far fewer occupants. Our traditional poor just end up in slummy crime ridden areas of cities with many eventually becoming homeless because of too low incomes and an army of Wall Street sub leeches jacking rents up everywhere. Here in California what they have done buying up mobile home parks then jacking up rents, seniors and poor used to live in, is IMO criminal.

Were it not for immigrating poor putting pressure on low end housing most of our mid and lower working classes would choose to spend much less on housing like it used to be. See it is a game and we middle class peons are the stupid gullible prey while they are living the easy life off playing golf at Palm Beach and Palm Springs.
 
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hollydolly said:
I'm afraid they are in many, many town centres in the UK already..... even my nearest little town.. has no longer any bricks and mortar banks, nor has the town next to it .. and they're closing at a rate of Knots all over the country.. We've lost large department stores everywhere.. very few remaining now... being replaced by coffee shops, nail salons.. and Turkish Barbers..
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People will always need coffee and haircuts (y) ;)
 
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/business/dicks-retail-theft/index.html

Dick’s Sporting Goods blames ‘increasingly serious’ theft problem for profit plunge

One factor that police believe is a driver of organized retail crime more recently is the fact that under new criminal justice reform laws and local district attorney’s policies to reduce mass incarceration, grand theft – the law that covers shoplifting – is a crime where judges can no longer jail a a person or even require bail, no matter how many times the same individual is caught...

There are 300 people who have been arrested a collective 4,000 times that are solely responsible for 30% of all grand larceny in New York City and 70% of them are out on the street, according to an NYPD review of New York State court records.
 
Your abandoned downtowns will probably be bought by realty moguls. That's what's starting to happen in So-Cal. They're buying huge swaths of rundown areas, bulldozing them, then building new homes, shopping centers, and office spaces to create what's called 15-minute communities.
 
Murrmurr said:
Your abandoned downtowns will probably be bought by realty moguls. That's what's starting to happen in So-Cal. They're buying huge swaths of rundown areas, bulldozing them, then building new homes, shopping centers, and office spaces to create what's called 15-minute communities.
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Exactly what our govt has in the planning right now. 15 minute communities.... horrifying ..
 
David777 said:
Wall Street financial and real estate corporations and their puppet politicians with endless growth and development including population growth, though their dominant media will point fingers everywhere but at them.

The most serious issue in San Francisco is homelessness and crime, both aggravated by our huge rich to poor wealth gap. A gap that did not exist decades ago when I grew up until politicians embraced a global economy. Both issues that could readily be fixed were it not for entrenched politicians that are controlled by advocates to keep the sad status quo.

The prime reason we have essentially open borders and visa overstays. Visa overstays allows the world's rich to come here, buy our now way over-priced real estate, often pricing out our working class USA citizens, and set up with full documentation extended families no questions asked. At the other end, poor folks from throughout the planet storm through our borders that puts immense pressure on the limited supply of older less expensive housing that our own poor used to mostly live in.

Instead the only housing that is being built by real estate developers is expensive upper middle class housing that our lower and mid working classes are then forced to live in going into monstrous debt because they have no other choice. The immigrating ethnic poor just live densely with multiple families and persons living in homes and apartments meant for far fewer occupants. Our traditional poor just end up in slummy crime ridden areas of cities with many eventually becoming homeless because of too low incomes and an army of Wall Street sub leeches jacking rents up everywhere. Here in California what they have done buying up mobile home parks then jacking up rents, seniors and poor used to live in, is IMO criminal.

Were it not for immigrating poor putting pressure on low end housing most of our mid and lower working classes would choose to spend much less on housing like it used to be. See it is a game and we middle class peons are the stupid gullible prey while they are living the easy life off playing golf at Palm Beach and Palm Springs.
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I am afraid the same thing is happening in our bigger cities here in Canada. Housing being bought up by the rich as a commoditiy, to sell at a profit later on, while lower middle class people are being driven out of city centres! Toronto was proud of its multiculturalism but now most immigrants to this city are having to leave and look for cheaper places to live. Same in Vancouver, huge buildings being bought as investments and not as places to live in unless you can afford ridiculous rents.
 
Old Salt said:
I am afraid the same thing is happening in our bigger cities here in Canada. Housing being bought up by the rich as a commoditiy, to sell at a profit later on, while lower middle class people are being driven out of city centres! Toronto was proud of its multiculturalism but now most immigrants to this city are having to leave and look for cheaper places to live. Same in Vancouver, huge buildings being bought as investments and not as places to live in unless you can afford ridiculous rents.
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That's what's happening here. And sadly, a lot of the homes are rentals that will only be rented to people with stellar credit, but the people will never own the home. They'll just generate forever income to the realty moguls.
 
Murrmurr said:
Your abandoned downtowns will probably be bought by realty moguls. That's what's starting to happen in So-Cal. They're buying huge swaths of rundown areas, bulldozing them, then building new homes, shopping centers, and office spaces to create what's called 15-minute communities.
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There are always incentives paid from tax money for urban renewal. Of course the tax base drops way down when business leaves.

If those in charge had kept the cities well policed and safe then stores would have stayed open and buildings would have been kept up by the companies that occupied them.
 
Myrtle said:
There are always incentives paid from tax money for urban renewal. Of course the tax base drops way down when business leaves.

If those in charge had kept the cities well policed and safe then stores would have stayed open and buildings would have been kept up by the companies that occupied them.
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I agree 100%. And up-keep is where a chunk of the business's taxes was supposed to go. It's obvious cities are using that money for other things.

Two or three Calif city governors (not sure of the title) were convicted of mismanagement of city funds after the cities filed bankruptcy.
 
mrstime said:
We live in a small town, and so we love Amazon, they carry things we simply can not get in town!
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same here... altho' I do drive to towns further away... but even in our nearest small town parents can't even buy school uniform for their children which s an absolute necessity
 

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