Will our downtowns be ghost towns in another twenty years?

hollydolly said:
Yes we need a clothing store in town.. especially for people who don't use or want to use the Online process, and there's many reasons for that ... people like to try things on before purchasing.. people might want to buy something needed for the same day... parents need to buy clothing for children.. they need to be tried on.. not have the hassle of waiting for something to arrive in the post which might not fit...
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If people buy online and thereā€™s not enough profit left to keep the B&M stores functioning, it wonā€™t matter if people need these things or not. Itā€™s sad.


gruntlabor said:
Crime
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The store owners are fed up with shop lifting, people lying and other things in the alleys behind their stores, smashed windows. Customers donā€™t want to be harassed by panhandlers.

Thatā€™s one advantage of the malls; they can kick loiterers out and the vagrants donā€™t like to sleep in the middle of the parking lots. They still have the shoplifting.

Overall I prefer to shop in the downtown. The stores are unique.
 
Our downtown here in central Florida is doing great. It is a small city, with a lake side park, and lots of restaurants, plus all of the city/county buildings, etc. They go all out for Christmas with a really big parade and tons of decorations. It seems that the "down towns" that have transitioned from mom and pop retail to more entertainment/dining are doing okay.
 

hollydolly said:
Exactly what our govt has in the planning right now. 15 minute communities.... horrifying ..
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Why? Whats wrong with this concept?

In America, you only have to look at Europe. We don't have these "suburbs" that you only need to sleep in. For everything else, you need the car. There is usually no public transport there either. From my point of view, this is not an attractive residential area.

This video explains it very well in my opinion:

The same channel also has a video about urban planning. There is also well explained where the respective advantages and disadvantages lie:
 
Jules said:
If people buy online and thereā€™s not enough profit left to keep the B&M stores functioning, it wonā€™t matter if people need these things or not. Itā€™s sad.



The store owners are fed up with shop lifting, people lying and other things in the alleys behind their stores, smashed windows. Customers donā€™t want to be harassed by panhandlers.

Thatā€™s one advantage of the malls; they can kick loiterers out and the vagrants donā€™t like to sleep in the middle of the parking lots. They still have the shoplifting.

Overall I prefer to shop in the downtown. The stores are unique.
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well fortunately there's never been a problem here with panhandlers, ... but the rents here are what is causing the vadt majority of large and traditional stores to close, couple with online purchases..Also here at our town centres and malls, we have to pay to park..in some malls and supermarket car parks it's a significant amount ..so people would rather just sit at home and order online...
 
Tomkin said:
Why? Whats wrong with this concept?

In America, you only have to look at Europe. We don't have these "suburbs" that you only need to sleep in. For everything else, you need the car. There is usually no public transport there either. From my point of view, this is not an attractive residential area.

This video explains it very well in my opinion:

The same channel also has a video about urban planning. There is also well explained where the respective advantages and disadvantages lie:
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what's wrong with a 15 minute concept..?... how will you carry groceries on a bike ..how will you get your groceries in fact if there's no supermarket within 15 minutes...or choice of supermarket to suit your budget ? or furniture store... or hospitals or enough Doctors /dentists surgeries to cater for the population within ? ... how will you visit your families who lives an hour away... how will you get to see your aged parents in care homes every day...2 towns away....what if you work 2 hours away ?

In cities like London Madrid, Paris, New York, Chicago etc where about 14,000 people live per square mile, mingling, and a community spirit wouldn't be hard to achieve... altho' catering for 14,000 people's needs within a 15 minute radius would be very difficult.... but the large towns outside the cites don't have people living cheek by jowl so much...and where is the spare land coming from in densely populated land starved countries like the UK... Hong Kong.. etc to build facilities where people who live within a community like this and who are no longer able to drive out of the area...going to come from ?...


This situation is happening all over the UK where the car is banned from certain areas...


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The 15-minute city is a dead end ā€” cities must be places of opportunity for everyone
The real problem with 15-minute cities - CapX
 
hollydolly said:
what's wrong with a 15 minute concept..?... how will you carry groceries on a bike ..how will you get your groceries in fact if there's no supermarket within 15 minutes...or choice of supermarket to suit your budget ? or furniture store... or hospitals or enough Doctors /dentists surgeries to cater for the population within ? ... how will you visit your families who lives an hour away... how will you get to see your aged parents in care homes every day...2 towns away....what if you work 2 hours away ?

In cities like London Madrid, Paris, New York, Chicago etc where about 14,000 people live per square mile, mingling, and a community spirit wouldn't be hard to achieve... altho' catering for 14,000 people's needs within a 15 minute radius would be very difficult.... but the large towns outside the cites don't have people living cheek by jowl so much...and where is the spare land coming from in densely populated land starved countries like the UK... Hong Kong.. etc to build facilities where people who live within a community like this and who are no longer able to drive out of the area...going to come from ?...
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For me, this is definitely true. I have everything in even much closer proximity. But that's what you have to aim for as a city. The larger cities do the same. I think this is more about the smaller cities that don't have a hospital in town. Then it goes on, there are places without a doctor, without a bank, even without a supermarket. This makes it not very attractive for young people to stay in these places. At the same time, there would be even more affordable housing in these places.
I know of some projects in the countryside or in smaller communities: For example, a supermarket comes on wheels or a doctor comes by car and treats people in the town hall. There are also mobile care services. Banking is still difficult, but you have to show people how to do things online.
 
Tomkin said:
For me, this is definitely true. I have everything in even much closer proximity. But that's what you have to aim for as a city. The larger cities do the same. I think this is more about the smaller cities that don't have a hospital in town. Then it goes on, there are places without a doctor, without a bank, even without a supermarket. This makes it not very attractive for young people to stay in these places. At the same time, there would be even more affordable housing in these places.
I know of some projects in the countryside or in smaller communities: For example, a supermarket comes on wheels or a doctor comes by car and treats people in the town hall. There are also mobile care services. Banking is still difficult, but you have to show people how to do things online.
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what smaller communities are these ?..I live in a rural area and we haven't had those types of facilitates for 40 years ....and today , people living in rural villages couldn't buy enough groceries from a grocery truck...to meet their needs..

WE cannot step back 40 years in the name of progress...
 
I live in a small neighborhood community. When we moved here we had to drive about twelve miles to get to "town".
Since then, a bypass was built and businesses are springing up left and right off of the beginning of the bypass.
It started with Wal-Mart being built in a big farm field and took off from there.
Everything is about a mile and a half to two miles away. Its convenient.
 
I think the pandemic did a lot of damage to local businesses. I would shop locally more but haven't had a car for a year and I don't like going into the physical stores anymore. I have this thing about crowds now.

Mostly my issue is supply and demand. Many of the places here have been unable to keep things in stock and I've had no choice but to go to Amazon for what I need. I can't even get a bottle of Mucinex cough medicine from the local Dillon's supermarket via delivery

I think if stocking issues continue, people are gonna turn more and more to places like Amazon. I would much rather order from them than go into an extremely busy Walmart with 9,000 people everywhere. Plus I can stuff in bulk and cheaper on Amazon.
 
Tomkin said:
For me, this is definitely true. I have everything in even much closer proximity. But that's what you have to aim for as a city. The larger cities do the same. I think this is more about the smaller cities that don't have a hospital in town. Then it goes on, there are places without a doctor, without a bank, even without a supermarket. This makes it not very attractive for young people to stay in these places. At the same time, there would be even more affordable housing in these places.
I know of some projects in the countryside or in smaller communities: For example, a supermarket comes on wheels or a doctor comes by car and treats people in the town hall. There are also mobile care services. Banking is still difficult, but you have to show people how to do things online.
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No way, our towns won't be ghost towns!!! We are a strong nation that will stand and rebuild if we have to!!! Evil has to go and it will not overtake!!!
 
Old Salt said:
I just saw a video yesterday that really shocked me. A lengthy view of a part of Market Street in San Francisco! Closed down, banks, businesses, restaurants! This part of SF is starting to look like a ghost town. I always blamed Walmart for the sad demise of small town business, but now this. I checked more cities and sure enough, the rot is starting to show there as well! Who do we blame? Amazon and similar on-line retailers? How can we beautify what's left, or will people get tired of on-line shopping?
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I watched that same video. I was also shocked. Hershey, Pennsylvania is also beginning to thin out. I have noticed that especially on Fridays and Saturdays the town isnā€™t as busy as it was not so long ago. I have also noticed the many for sale signs that is a real oddity. People generally want to live in Hershey for life. We have a lot of life-long residents, or at least used to, but I have noticed some of the old-timers leaving town also.
 
Tomkin said:
Today, people just order three sizes and send back the two pieces that don't fit.
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That's true. Recently, I had to return shoes I bought online (the color was wrong) and one of the reasons on the return form was "I ordered more than one (fill in size, color, etc.) and am not keeping this one/these." I hadn't ordered more than one but looks like enough people do that they need to put it on the return form.
 
Here's an example of city planning that I don't understand: I live in the old hot, dry, wildfire-ravaged, drought-ravaged western U.S.; farmers and ranchers around here are becoming more and more vocal about their worries about water and what's happening? A waterpark is going in near where I live. (Which probably means a drop in value for our home, but that's a worry for another discussion.)
 
hollydolly said:
I'm afraid they are in many, many town centres in the UK already..... even my nearest little town.. has no longer any bricks and mortar banks, nor has the town next to it .. and they're closing at a rate of Knots all over the country.. We've lost large department stores everywhere.. very few remaining now... being replaced by coffee shops, nail salons.. and Turkish Barbers..
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Our downtown center still has brick and mortar banks, but the last store there closed this Sept. Now all that remains is ethnic restaurants, nail salons and lottery agents. We don't even have a drugstore to run to for a quart of milk before snowstorms now. This will be a scary change.:oops:
 
Old Salt said:
I just saw a video yesterday that really shocked me. A lengthy view of a part of Market Street in San Francisco! Closed down, banks, businesses, restaurants! This part of SF is starting to look like a ghost town. I always blamed Walmart for the sad demise of small town business, but now this. I checked more cities and sure enough, the rot is starting to show there as well! Who do we blame? Amazon and similar on-line retailers? How can we beautify what's left, or will people get tired of on-line shopping?
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I don't blame businesses in San Francisco one bit for closing and moving elsewhere. After all, how could anyone be expected to run a profitable business when looters are allowed to loot with impunity? So, if one must assign blame, then it must fall onto the voters for their failure to elect responsible leaders. (I'm a native San Franciscan)
 
Old Salt said:
I just saw a video yesterday that really shocked me. A lengthy view of a part of Market Street in San Francisco! Closed down, banks, businesses, restaurants! This part of SF is starting to look like a ghost town. I always blamed Walmart for the sad demise of small town business, but now this. I checked more cities and sure enough, the rot is starting to show there as well! Who do we blame? Amazon and similar on-line retailers? How can we beautify what's left, or will people get tired of on-line shopping?
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Local politicians, weak/non existence justice system, poor judges, illegal immigration ....the outcome is businesses move away. People don't want to go to places where their safety is in question when they can get things right to their door, safely
 
Who could guess the amount of $$$$$ floating around the land owning oligarchs playground. They are making the decisions to move, close doors, and let these stores become artifacts. Their interests have shifted to a much more subtle way to control the mass amount of wealth they have at their disposal. IMO they do not give one iota about petty "poor" crime.

Voting won't change a thing...politicians are pawns to move around their monopoly board/s. Our societies' are in the process of steep decline. The poor need their sustenance from somewhere.? Don't say hard work, or jobs. That doesn't work for the masses...maybe some but but not many. Housing, food insecurity, pay check to pay check, child care, health care, and insurances are wiping the budgets clean and more. Drastic means is needed in drastic situations. It happens that way, It is called a conflagration.
 
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Another problem with regard to losing stores and banks.. is that once we all have to shop online.. that's when the quality goes down and the prices go up... equally when we have to Bank online which is the aim for all the banks.. hence the closure of so many Bricks and mortar banks, and eventually the demise of Cash machines & ATM's... we will be at the mercy of Card Payments only... once we have no ability to pay by cash.. we're no longer ''free' '' people...the Banks will become our masters
 
I think the concerns are somewhat exaggerated, but real. Voices can get extreme because it feels like someone who stepped on your toes is gradually leaning in to press ever harder.
 
I don't think so. People still require jobs outside the home. Many of us as humans need interaction face-to-face with others and actually handling merchandise.

What might change is that many downtown shopping areas might become pedestrians only area. Which considering the planned reduced emissions, will be a welcoming upgrade.

Watching a YouTube video a few days ago, where a piano is available for anyone to play, was inside a new shopping centre in London, England which looks brand new. My last visit to London was in 1998.

With a cat, if we want to go down south, I'll have to make purchase of a backpack transport for our wee tyke lol. Sorry deviating... Typical šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚
 
Supernatural said:
I don't think so. People still require jobs outside the home. Many of us as humans need interaction face-to-face with others and actually handling merchandise.

What might change is that many downtown shopping areas might become pedestrians only area. Which considering the planned reduced emissions, will be a welcoming upgrade.

Watching a YouTube video a few days ago, where a piano is available for anyone to play, was inside a new shopping centre in London, England which looks brand new. My last visit to London was in 1998.

With a cat, if we want to go down south, I'll have to make purchase of a backpack transport for our wee tyke lol. Sorry deviating... Typical šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚
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WE have had pianos inside Shopping malls and Train stations for decades....



Here in the UK its not the Malls which are closing down it's the High street. Something which isn't really huge in the US... but has always been the mainstay of British shopping....shops and stores boarded up in the majority of towns, and then re-opened as nail salons, betting shops.. Pounds stores, and coffee shops...
 

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