Are there moral absolutes, or does everything just boil down to opinion?

PeppermintPatty said:
We DO have the capacity but unfortunately we don’t have enough care or compassion to stop doing it. We might not like it but we ARE the most greedy and ruthless animal on the planet and will kill off most of the worlds species including ourselves. We won’t have enough food to feed the population and I highly doubt our killing methods for obtaining food will improve any.
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I guess lab grown meat will definitely be in our future. :sick:
 

bobcat48 said:
Well, to be fair here, I live in the mountains, and I see does running from the bucks all the time during breeding season, but he pursues her and eventually has his way, and it is that way in many others species, so IMO, even though we may not think of it as rape because they are animals, it is still quite common. Just an observation, but your other points may be valid. I would have to do some research, but it's really not necessary. It's just a discussion.
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Hehe, you think like a man. Yes he pursues her and eventually has his way: WHEN she is ready.
 

bobcat48 said:
Meanwhile, i can fully appreciate the metaphor of the elephant and the rider. Although, I do believe that the majority of that elephant is in the domain of our subconscious, and not easily accessible. However, I do get your point that it may be possible to establish a functional relationship with the beast hidden in all of us.
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Ironically it might be necessary to give up some control in order to gain some.

bobcat48 said:
Another great book on that is "Strangers To Ourselves" by Wilson.
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I may need to take a look at that. I wonder if it is a work of nonfiction or a novel. (I’m rooting for it to be a novel.)
 
You sure make some thought provoking threads! I have to give this some time to form an opinion. Thanks for this very interesting thread! I'll be back 😁
 
Knight said:
According to the bible was sacrificed to help mankind to live right. And that failed.
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He would've failed, but
He gave His life that we may live
Not on this decrepit planet
This life is temporary

His sacrifice is a study of the ages

It was prophesied throughout the old testament

Isaiah talks about it in his book;
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

The ceremonial rituals of the Israelites pointed to it all

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Knight said:
And that failed.
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No, not a failure
Very much a triumph
 
bobcat48 said:
You and me both, unless it's a really big island and I go it on my own.
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That Lord of the Flies novel we had to read as a kid , I found very haunting. When I think about it I wonder why such a book would be on a young child’s education curriculum.

Then there was ‘The Diary of Anne Frank.’ That book I can somewhat understand being on the curriculum but it was super depressing.

Anyway, I guess I’m getting off track.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
That Lord of the Flies novel we had to read as a kid , I found very haunting. When I think about it I wonder why such a book would be on a young child’s education curriculum.

Then there was ‘The Diary of Anne Frank.’ That book I can somewhat understand being on the curriculum but it was super depressing.

Anyway, I guess I’m getting off track.
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I'm only guessing here, but maybe the teacher had hopes that the takeaway would be: Here's what happens to society if we don't find cooperative ways to live together and work together. It is interesting to think about though, the competing drives of wanting to work together for the good, but also the desire to survive, as in survival of the fittest.
 
bobcat48 said:
I'm only guessing here, but maybe the teacher had hopes that the takeaway would be: Here's what happens to society if we don't find cooperative ways to live together and work together. It is interesting to think about though, the competing drives of wanting to work together for the good, but also the desire to survive, as in survival of the fittest.
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True! Maybe it helped kids keep in line; perhaps helped improve their manners and discipline. I’m not sure how old you were when you read it but I was 10. I looked up what age most people read this and the average age was grade 9 or 10.

If I realistically was in that situation and things got that bad I would have swam out into the ocean in hopes of either dying or getting eating by a shark or something. It seems more predicable. Humans are so unpredictable, especially when stressed.

What a morbid topic. Lol
 
PeppermintPatty said:
True! Maybe it helped kids keep in line; perhaps helped improve their manners and discipline. I’m not sure how old you were when you read it but I was 10. I looked up what age most people read this and the average age was grade 9 or 10.

If I realistically was in that situation and things got that bad I would have swam out into the ocean in hopes of either dying or getting eating by a shark or something. It seems more predicable. Humans are so unpredictable, especially when stressed.

What a morbid topic. Lol
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I don't remember what age exactly, but I think I was in Jr. High. I don't think, at the time, I really understood the message either. Like you, I was imagining what I would do too. The morals, ethics, and implications of what could happen to society probably went right over my head.

Actually, that being said, it gives me an idea for another thread, so why not.
 
perplexed said:
We must have some form of laws to keep order in our society, I think morality is another story, how do you police morality I think that is where laws come in to place.
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well they have morality police in Iran to do just that and that has stirred up such large unrest atm over there?? I suppose it depends on who's morality you support?? an interesting topic - all of it with its ups and downs / ins and outs / maybe maybe nots - imagine us all in a church hall debating this for a few hrs - we would sure get a bit tired /irate and maybe murderous??

Where do I go with all of this?? - the easy way - I go with the risen Christ - but ya can't just say that then forget - ya gotta chat regularly and listen carefully and take lots of advice and pointers?? - do I - not always sometimes get it hopelessly wrong - just another saved sinner I suppose??
 
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Do no ill to others.
Help when you can.
Give when you can.
Listen.

These are absolutes. When it comes to telling lies, context matters. Sometimes the nicest thing you can do is lie.

Personal bias is impossible to avoid though. The culture we're nurtured in has such a big effect on who we are. Capitalism doesn't work with my absolutes, etc.
 
Murrmurr said:
Those aren't just your opinions, they're facts.

But where I mention appeals, that would include the Supreme Court. As you know, particularly in constitutional matters, when a person isn't satisfied with a lower court decision, they have a right to take their appeal to the Supreme Court.
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Quite correct Murr!
One can most certainly appeal to the US Supreme Court.
If four of the nine judges agree to hear the case, then a writ of certiorari can be granted to review the case in certain circumstances.

I will point out in the US there exists the State Supreme Court ...and... the highest court in the land the US Supreme Court.
 
There are a lot of gray areas for sure. Thou shalt not kill, but self defense? Wartime? But it’s kinda like the definition of pornography. You know it when you see it. At the end of the day, it’s not up to me. It’s up to the courts, and, ultimately, to God.
 
it's at this point and so many opinions that I forgot the title and have to go back to the top again - could we have the title follow us on each message section?? ah moral absolutes now it comes back to me! I once had a mate back in ye olde UK who got married and he and wifey decided that they would rear their off spring with as few moral guides as possible - this of course caused great constenance to his parents and her parents and his siblings

- we just didn't care much and thought him crazy - unfortunately I lost touch so didn't hear about an ultimate outcome? - I often wondered where that all ended - in smiles or tears. but it does beg a question heh..........................................do we really need to teach our young offspring any moral codes of behaviours?? and if we didn't whot would be the result?/
 
davey said:
it's at this point and so many opinions that I forgot the title and have to go back to the top again - could we have the title follow us on each message section?? ah moral absolutes now it comes back to me! I once had a mate back in ye olde UK who got married and he and wifey decided that they would rear their off spring with as few moral guides as possible - this of course caused great constenance to his parents and her parents and his siblings

- we just didn't care much and thought him crazy - unfortunately I lost touch so didn't hear about an ultimate outcome? - I often wondered where that all ended - in smiles or tears. but it does beg a question heh..........................................do we really need to teach our young offspring any moral codes of behaviours?? and if we didn't whot would be the result?/
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I think even if parents didn't actually teach them, they would ultimately learn from others they came into contact with, as well as parents behavior. Our brains are always at work processing information, even below the level of awareness. We even have mirror neurons that utilize a form of imitation learning and understanding the meaning of another's behavior.

It would be interesting though to find what happened in their situation. It could be a very compelling study.
 
YES and when I read a column like murrmurr recently it does all sorts of things to my mind and moral dimensions etc. I then i wonder how often are similar family events occuring across usa and then the world of course and how is this effecting the ability of that country to develop at high levels of efficiencies with dollars still left in the coffers?

When you consider the cost of human services/social welfare depts/ prisons etc etc on the final budget then the real cost of unhappiness/ ineffective families/drug damaged families etc must cost a significant amount? Imagine if all families were healthy/happy/fully functional on all levels how much happier countries would be and with extra coffers in the budget for more happy events!!
 
PeppermintPatty said:
That Lord of the Flies novel we had to read as a kid , I found very haunting. When I think about it I wonder why such a book would be on a young child’s education curriculum.

Then there was ‘The Diary of Anne Frank.’ That book I can somewhat understand being on the curriculum but it was super depressing.

Anyway, I guess I’m getting off track.
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I want to point out there are book bannings on the books above. Some of the excuses for it are the very ones you mention: haunting, depressing, etc. I do not approve of book banning based on some children's reactions to subject such as these. Nor are you suggesting that, not saying you are, just pointing it out.
 
Pepper said:
I want to point out there are book bannings on the books above. Some of the excuses for it are the very ones you mention: haunting, depressing, etc. I do not approve of book banning based on some children's reactions to subject such as these. Nor are you suggesting that, not saying you are, just pointing it out.
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No I never even remotely suggested it. I merely stated that reading Lord of the Flies at age 10 was haunting and depressing and at age 10 , I had enough haunting and depressing things going on with my life.
 
JustDave said:
It's all about the moment and the ambiance.
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I guess we could give the bucks the benefit of the doubt and say they would probably light candles, put on romantic music and such, but there is that damn persistent problem with the opposable thumb. It really limits your creativity.
 

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