Target closing 9 stores in 5 cities

fuzzybuddy said:
I think "crime' is a convenient foil for a store's closing. Yes, crime may be a factor, but if the store was producing good profits, regardless of the crime, they'd open one in Hell. Every time you click on Amazon means a lost sale to stores , like Target. Stores have developed a system where buyers can take merchandise off the shelves, themselves. The glitch in the system is that buyers and the merchandise can go right straight out the door. The mass raids on stores exploit this glitch. If stores continue to have unfettered access to their goods, thefts ARE going to happen.
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Shame on those stores for making people steal.
 

fuzzybuddy said:
On the other hand, are you willing to pay tax increases to keep criminals locked up for a much longer time? It costs about $50,000/year to keep someone locked up. And the older prisoners get, the more the medical care costs. The US already operates the largest prison system in the world. If someone steals a $50 watch, do you want to lock him up for 3 years. costing tax payers $150,000. I'm not 'soft' on crime, but if we put people in jail and throw away the key, we are going to have to fork over a huge chunk of cash a lot to keep him there. I don't really know what the answer is.
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The $50 watch example is a straw man argument. No rational person would suggest such a long sentence or throwing away the key. Try again.
 
Target has nearly 2000 stores in this country...in 2022 and 2023 over 20 new stores were opened, a big percentage of the new stores were opened in California and New York.....you know, home of the 'woke'...:rolleyes:
 

HoneyNut said:
Yes, I agree, I was reading yesterday that the statistics of loss from theft to sales has actually been fairly steady (around one and a half percent), but that stores that close from low profitability will use crime as their reason rather than saying it was from poor business decisions.
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1 1/2 shrink is the total shrink not just loss from theft. The number usually includes accounting errors, miscounts or mishandling of returns, exchanges, employee theft etc. If one and a half percent loss is from theft on the floor alone that's an alarming number and probably low in some crime ridden areas.

Also there are leases and mortgage payments to make on their stores/property. Theoretically one would want income to pay the basics so it doesn't have to come out of pocket. Crime is so bad in some of the OP areas I don't know if they could even sublet those buildings/property at this point.
 
If policies were up to me, even with current laws, could stop shoplifting. Civil rights lawyers and the ACLU however would have a screaming fit. The ridiculous issue due to lawyer paranoia and policies, security persons cannot physically intervene with shoplifters except vocally. Our useless politicians could and should fix that with legislation instead of hiding leaving it to the politicized court system.

Retail store security could use special paint ball like shotguns with non-staining red paint that would readily identify any running out of stores then on streets. Store entrance doors could be modified to automatically close shut in moments locking perpetrators inside until police came.

Convicted retail thieves could have their mugshots placed on store entrances and in local newspapers then be denied shopping for a couple years. Courts could actually make car theft and car hijacking a crime with real punishment. Society could embrace public corporal punishment instead of long jail/prison sentences that is way too costly. Much more.
 
David777 said:
The ridiculous issue due to lawyer paranoia and policies, security persons cannot physically intervene with shoplifters except vocally.
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They can physically, at least under Ohio law, but only with so called reasonable means.
David777 said:
Store entrance doors could be modified to automatically close shut in moments locking perpetrators inside until police arrived.
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Bad legal idea. It opens the door for great civil/legal liability.
 
ohioboy said:
They can physically, at least under Ohio law, but only with so called reasonable means.

Bad legal idea. It opens the door for great civil/legal liability.
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The point is, laws could and should be changed by legislation to prevent some lawsuits, if politicians would do their job.
 
David777 said:
Convicted retail thieves could have their mugshots placed on store entrances and in local newspapers then be denied shopping for a couple years.
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That might be genuinely effective, at least it was for me and a friend when we were 8 yrs old and tried to steal some bubblegum from the convenience store. After that I had to make up excuses to stay in the car if my parents stopped to buy something.
 
jimintoronto said:
Compare that to Canada, where we have ONE national criminal code, that applies in all parts of the country. Not a patchwork quilt of 50 different ones. JimB.
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I envy you. Fortunately or unfortunately our Constitution requires the patchwork quilt as you put it. Here in California a thief can walk out of a store with $900 in merchandise and he is only guilty of a misdemeanor, the equivalent of jay walking. Fortunately where I live the population tends to be well off and law abiding. We have two Target stores and they will remain open. But across the Bay crime is out of control. Over 15,000 cars have been stolen in Oakland and San Francisco so far this year, and shop lifting is rampant.
Stolen Cars: Over 15,000 Auto Thefts in San Francisco and Oakland This Year

I am beginning to believe that the United States has been loaded in a hand basket and is on the way to parts only God knows where.
 
One problem with the Canadian system is that you get "one size fits all" policies constructed like those cheap Christmas lights where when one bulb burns out the entire string goes dark.

The US still gets some of that through Federal policies. Frail and hazardous parts of the country get washed away and everyone else pays to help them build upon the sand, over and over again. Nothing is ever learned, so the resource drain on others bleeds them in perpetuity. That isn't through the influence of the people, but instead the interests getting rich off the rebuilding and the rents there during the sunny times. They always have the loot to lubricate Washington.
 
David777 said:
Convicted retail thieves could have their mugshots placed on store entrances
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I was in a store that does/did this. If they have a video of someone shoplifting, their photo goes on the front door. I don’t know if they are convicted.
 
dilettante said:
One problem with the Canadian system is that you get "one size fits all" policies constructed like those cheap Christmas lights where when one bulb burns out the entire string goes dark.

The US still gets some of that through Federal policies. Frail and hazardous parts of the country get washed away and everyone else pays to help them build upon the sand, over and over again. Nothing is ever learned, so the resource drain on others bleeds them in perpetuity. That isn't through the influence of the people, but instead the interests getting rich off the rebuilding and the rents there during the sunny times. They always have the loot to lubricate Washington.
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The founders were fearful of too much power concentrated in the hands of too few. Thus all of those states with different views. Note, for example, the President has no official role in amending the Constitution. It’s the Congress and the states that approve amendments.
 
Jackie23 said:
Target has nearly 2000 stores in this country...in 2022 and 2023 over 20 new stores were opened, a big percentage of the new stores were opened in California and New York.....you know, home of the 'woke'...:rolleyes:
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On the other hand.......Target opened up in Canada, and it only took 3 years for them to go into bankruptcy here. Why ? The management made two fatal errors. First, they assumed that doing business here in Canada would be "just like it is in the USA ". Second ,error. They ignored the advice of the Canadians who they had hired as regional managers. Target stores in Canada stood empty for a number of years, after their bankruptcy, until a few of them were bought by a Canadian retailer. Canadian customers went to the Target stores here in Canada, expecting the same level of pricing as in the States. What they found were many empty shelves, poor selections, and unrealistic prices.

Link. The Last Days of Target JImB.
 
dilettante said:
One problem with the Canadian system is that you get "one size fits all" policies constructed like those cheap Christmas lights where when one bulb burns out the entire string goes dark.

The US still gets some of that through Federal policies. Frail and hazardous parts of the country get washed away and everyone else pays to help them build upon the sand, over and over again. Nothing is ever learned, so the resource drain on others bleeds them in perpetuity. That isn't through the influence of the people, but instead the interests getting rich off the rebuilding and the rents there during the sunny times. They always have the loot to lubricate Washington.
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"One size fits all " ? Like the national regulation about paid maternal leave, with a full year off, with 80 percent wages ? Or the national Employment Insurance plan that covers everyone in the country, and allows unemployed people to go to training courses to improve their job skills , and if the person moves to another part of the country for a new job, their moving costs are a legal tax deduction ? How about the national trades training program, or the youth incentive payment program to encourage teens to finish high school. Yes we pay kids to graduate from high school here. You need to educate yourself more about how Canada does things. JImB.
 
Jules said:
I was in a store that does/did this. If they have a video of someone shoplifting, their photo goes on the front door. I don’t know if they are convicted.
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In Canada, the store would have to make sure that the person was tried in court, and convicted first, before posting such a photo. The presumption of innocence, right ?

In Canada, a retail store can have some one charged with trespassing, and they are then prohibited from entering that store. Breach of a trespass order can result in a Provincial Offense charge, and the person will have to appear in court, to answer the charge. Typically the fine for trespassing is $150 to $300. JimB.
 
Teacher Terry said:
I won’t shop in a store where everything is under lock and key. It’s difficult to find employees and would take forever to shop.
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I don't see how this could work, unless you are buying just one thing that isn't available in another store down the street. Imagine trying to fill a shopping cart with a weeks worth of groceries, or comparing the nutritional information on different products? How much more cumbersome can it get?
 
I agree that shoplifters should be prosecuted or the problem will just get worse. But from a business standpoint, if you are going to open a store in a high crime area, shouldn't shoplifting probabilities be considered into your business decision? Corporate heads need to take into consideration local law enforcement standards, lawmakers inattention, and unrelated demographics as well, before opening a doomed business venture. After thinking more about it, I'm starting to think that "closing because of crime" is just a cover for making a bad business decision.
 
Many good discussions on all the problems dealing with the issues. The biggest problem is, just because you can steal, doesn't mean you should. Some humans have a tendency to F things up for other humans.
 
It may also be that these stores that are closing due to theft were opened before all this started becoming an issue. You know, before "defund the police" and letting thieves get off practically scot-free came into being.

Fewer cops and practically no legal deterrents do not make for low-crime areas.

Whoever voted for this (and unfortunately, even those who didn't) are getting a lesson in cause and effect.

[Edited: fixed typo]
 
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ohioboy said:
Is jail time possible, or is it a money fine only offense?
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Jail is possible, but rarely if ever happens. District attorneys are notorious for declining to prosecute. I suppose their reasoning is that the thieves are poor frustrated victims of poverty, possibly mentally I’ll. In any case the cops rarely show up, knowing that prosecution is unlikely and in any case, in a time of suspicion of police, they may be accused of unnecessary violence. Store managers often forbid their employees from interfering with the looters, their reasoning being that the employees may be injured or the looter may sue the store claiming they were attacked and injured. All in all a sad sign of the times.
 
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