Current debt to all the US citizens.

[AZ Jim]

I have no obsessive hatred but I do prefer folks to use honest and true sources. Far too much of what is posted is nonsense and untrue. Why not use true government and open sources for facts and avoid all these strange sources which seldom post any facts at all. That is what I have been trying to do all along. No distortions, just facts.

You don't see the irony of you saying that? Your position is that all your facts are accurate but none of ours is? Bob, blue skies, beautiful flowers, gentle breezes, trust in a pets eyes.........

 

[BobF]

Jim, I am saying that those that will use zfacts for example, are not trying to find facts. I have been using Obama government sources when I can. Those then are truly what can be trusted. Best leave all this near humor stuff out of the serious discussions.

 

[AZ Jim]

Jim, I am saying that those that will use zfacts for example, are not trying to find facts. I have been using Obama government sources when I can. Those then are truly what can be trusted. Best leave all this near humor stuff out of the serious discussions.

I agree about serious discussions, let us know when you want to have a SERIOUS discussion.

 

[Son_of_Perdition]

That is what makes the internet such a vast waste land of information. Anyone, anywhere or anytime can post anything they want without checking facts. Even the government can't get it right. With all the spin doctors hired by PACs and the politicians, skewing the truth is big business. Wasn't it Will Rogers who made the quote something like this, 'Believe nothing of what you hear, half of what you read and all of what you see'? But even that is suspect what with doctoring videos, 18 minute erasures, and dubbing your answers into surveys you never took that can lead to so much misinformation & question your beliefs in truth.

A budgeting forum I read has an ongoing annual gray area about what to do with a 1099C you may have received. Even the IRS has no hard set rules or detailed ironclad information to help you. CPA's & tax lawyers will give you conflicting information. Facts can be changed, slanted to what the poster wants to see. If not why does the government change their charts or positions daily? Ask Allan (Al) McDonald about it. History is being rewritten all the time, my childhood hero Columbus doesn't come off unscathed in today's classroom. I've even heard that they are considering dropping history classes nationwide because of the conflicting data.

 

[WhatInThe]

One thing with any statistic is context. One thing I notice from some these graphs is that debt started around the time of corporate downsizing or outsourcing along with fierce international economic competition. As an example I don't think it's coincidence that the debt started spiking up at the same time the Japanese were making entry into the US car market and had been already producing stuff like electronics. Also many companies were probably off shoring corporate headquarters just to pay fewer taxes.

Also where did the money go? What were we spending on by the mid 70s that wasn't there before? Or what spending was increased?

To me the debt started showing increases when the public/tax payer had decreased opportunity to pay or ability to be taxed. For example take tens of thousands auto workers out of the picture who probably could make 75K a year with overtime are all of the sudden not paying taxes but probably receiving a government benefit. (NOT saying this is the cause just using this an an example). This scenario played out over and over again in the US economy.

It's not who controlled the checkbook it was the store they were shopping in.

 

[QuickSilver]

One thing with any statistic is context. One thing I notice from some these graphs is that debt started around the time of corporate downsizing or outsourcing along with fierce international economic competition. As an example I don't think it's coincidence that the debt started spiking up at the same time the Japanese were making entry into the US car market and had been already producing stuff like electronics. Also many companies were probably off shoring corporate headquarters just to pay fewer taxes.

Also where did the money go? What were we spending on by the mid 70s that wasn't there before? Or what spending was increased?

To me the debt started showing increases when the public/tax payer had decreased opportunity to pay or ability to be taxed. For example take tens of thousands auto workers out of the picture who probably could make 75K a year with overtime are all of the sudden not paying taxes but probably receiving a government benefit. (NOT saying this is the cause just using this an an example). This scenario played out over and over again in the US economy.

It's not who controlled the checkbook it was the store they were shopping in.

Yes... it's all a combination of Corporate tax decreases, and offshoring not only to avoid all taxes, but to eliminate jobs. This decreased the tax revenue coming from the middle class as it was mostly their jobs that were eliminated. People have been forced to take very low paying jobs and therefore pay less taxes. Less tax revenue... more borrowing to function. I tend to think this all started with Regan and his war on unions and destruction of our educational system.. and escalated from there with Republican policies to favor the Wealthy and Corporations.