Derek Chauvin stabbed in prison:

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Rakaia said:
What a combination, racist and draconian attitudes make the USA one of the most incarcerated countries on earth.
Such intolerance

Maybe you're a racist making a remark like that.
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Again, calling me names doesn't change the facts.

Did you read the link I posted as well ? Or do you only read & comment on what you choose to because it opens the door to call me names.
 
againstthegrain said:
He was shot like a dog for absolutely no reason.
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He pointed a rifle out of a 5th story hotel window which was witnessed by a citizen who called in what could have been an active shooter. He also didn't do as he was told repeatedly by officers.

againstthegrain said:
He had a pellet gun, not a firearm.
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The caller to the police seen a long gun that had a scope being pointed out of a 5th story hotel window. From that distance, no one would be able to confirm what type of long gun he had. Nor did anyone know what his intent was.

A pellet gun may or may not be considered a firearm in Arizona. If it has been modified to fire a projectile with the use of gunpowder, it would be a firearm ( Is a pellet gun considered a firearm in Arizona? | TheGunZone ). He used his pellet guns for hunting in his animal control business. We don't know exactly what type of pellet gun he had.

Lower caliber pellet guns may not kill a person, however, higher-powered modern-day pellet rifles in .357, .45 & .50 calibers are used for hunting & are more lethal with the right placement. That right placement would be aided by the use of the scope he had. Can a Pellet Gun Kill a Human? How Lethal Is It? (Fully Explained!)

againstthegrain said:
AZ is an "open carry" state which means it's perfectly legal to carry a FIREARM (rifle or pistol) in a manner that is not concealed.
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An attorney in Arizona ( Is It Legal to Open Carry a Gun in Arizona? ) on his website said that open carry is when the gun is visible to others & with lawful intent. The gun must be holstered - it cannot be tucked in your waistband or hold it in your hands.

The site went on to say that carrying an unholstered gun in a non-emergency situation could be considered disorderly conduct. When a deadly weapon is involved, disorderly conduct is a class 6 felony. If convicted that could mean 3-years in prison for a first-time offender.

According to Wikipedia ( Gun laws in Arizona - Wikipedia ), the law doesn't expressly require openly carried weapons to be in a holster, case or scabbard; however, the open carrying of weapons not in a holster, case or scabbard while on foot in a populated area could be construed as reckless display or, if others feel threatened by such, even assault with a deadly weapon.

The open carrying of a long gun in Arizona that I found centered around the lawful hunting of animals. It made no mention of the carrying of long guns in an urban or city setting.


Shaver created the situation he found himself in. This had nothing to do with open carrying. He pointed a long gun out of a hotel window that was seen by a citizen who witnessed this & called the police. He was reckless in his actions by pointing the gun & also by not listening to lawful orders.
 
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That guy, that incident, reminded me of the guy in Las Vegas a few years back .... killed 58 ? people shooting from a hotel window. Not saying that was this man's plan , but I sure wish that other one would have been stopped early-on.

Now,oddly enough we just had another shoot & kill three ? @ the UNLV campus.
 
I apologize for the intrusion here, but just allow me this one miscue. Yesterday, here in my hometown, we had a small gang fight after school among 2 gangs, but very small group of about 6 total kids. A 14 y/o young man was stabbed to death. I was about 15 minutes on scene after it happened. I introduced myself to the cop in charge of the scene and asked what happened. The argument ensued over a girl.

It started out as a fist fight, but one of the kids had a knife and pulled it out. When the 14 y/o started mouthing at the other gang, the kid with the knife walked up to him and stuck his knife into the young man’s chest. The coroner was just finishing up and I asked him if he died due to lack of blood. He said no, he died because the knife penetrated the heart.

The city cops had the suspect in cuffs. Why must this happen? Why do kids insist on always turning to violence to settle a dispute? I found this to be very upsetting. Now a cop has to tell this young man’s parents there will be no Dijon at home on Christmas Day.
 
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911 said:
I apologize for the intrusion here, but just alliw me this one miscue. Yesterday, here in my hometown, we had a small gang fight after school among 2 gangs, but very small group of about 6 total kids. A 14 y/o young man was stabbed to death. I was about 15 minutes on scene after it happened. I introduced myself to the cop in charge of the scene and asked what happened. The argument ensued over a girl.

It started out as a fist fight, but one of the kids had a knife and pulled it out. When the 14 y/o started mouthing at the other gang, the kid with the knife walked up to him and stuck his knife into the young man’s chest. The coroner was just finishing up and I asked him if he died due to lack of blood. He said no, he died because the knife penetrated the heart.

The city cops had the suspect in cuffs. Why must this happen? Why do kids insist on always turning to violence to settle a dispute? I found this to be very upsetting. Now a cop has to tell this young man’s parents there will be no Dijon at home on Christmas Day.
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Agree wholeheartedly..

Same happened in East London the other day. a Mother was shot and killed by accident when 2 young men started a fight with each other.. this is happening more and more often here
 
hollydolly said:
Agree wholeheartedly..

Same happened in East London the other day. a Mother was shot and killed by accident when 2 young men started a fight with each other.. this is happening more and more often here
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Honestly, I think the city council has to put a plan in place to do more patrols, get the cops to go door to door and speak with the parents and stiffer fines for minors caught with a weapon. It has to end. I carry a gun wherever I go. I don’t want to shoot anyone, but I don’t want to get shot myself.

BTW, the suspect that stabbed the young man was also 14. Will he be tried as an adult? Maybe.
 
911 said:
Why must this happen? Why do kids insist on always turning to violence to settle a dispute? I found this to be very upsetting. Now a cop has to tell this young man’s parents there will be no Dijon at home on Christmas Day.
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If only we knew why it happens... but there doesn't seem to be any logic to it at all. Since I'm fairly close, I've been hearing about this stabbing on the local news. Our small (or even medium sized) towns were so different only a relatively short time ago, weren't they? Oh of course bad things always happened (you'd know that better than anyone) but it's just different now... it doesn't take much provocation at all now. :cry: @911
 
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911 said:
Honestly, I think the city council has to put a plan in place to do more patrols, get the cops to go door to door and speak with the parents and stiffer fines for minors caught with a weapon. It has to end. I carry a gun wherever I go. I don’t want to shoot anyone, but I don’t want to get shot myself.

BTW, the suspect that stabbed the young man was also 14. Will he be tried as an adult? Maybe.
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So, this is what we would probably call a random shooting. Depending on the prosecutor, the shooter could be charged with different counts, including felony murder. The jury may get the choice of 2 or 3 different charges to be found guilty of. In my view, even though this is an accidental shooting, a life has been taken. Punishment must be handed down. How should we measure the length of a sentence when a life is taken accidentally? Good question, I think.
 
911 said:
Honestly, I think the city council has to put a plan in place to do more patrols, get the cops to go door to door and speak with the parents and stiffer fines for minors caught with a weapon. It has to end. I carry a gun wherever I go. I don’t want to shoot anyone, but I don’t want to get shot myself.

BTW, the suspect that stabbed the young man was also 14. Will he be tried as an adult? Maybe.
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we've been asking..( not in my town ) but generally country wide, particularly in the cities for more police presence.. instead we get less.. then when the police do stop and search suspicious people, they're accused of racism...
 
We, IMO will never know the why in any of these cases . These guy are sociopaths / psychopaths their reasons are known only to them .... if they even know ?
 
Lilac said:
Watched the video in the link, but not sure how do you figure the officer is an evil person & has the intent to kill?
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If you watched the video you see the poor kid trying to do everything the cop wanted and begging for his life. It’s obvious from the video that the kid was dead the second that cop arrived. It’s heartbreaking.
 
Teacher Terry said:
If you watched the video you see the poor kid trying to do everything the cop wanted and begging for his life. It’s obvious from the video that the kid was dead the second that cop arrived. It’s heartbreaking.
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I watched both videos from two news sources of what took place.

When you are given a lawful order, there is no try ... you either do or do not. And no, he was not dead the second the police arrived ... that result was from his own actions.

There are two people in those two videos that were given the same instructions & asked the same questions by the police. Both were asked if they were drunk & both said no. Both were asked if there was going to be any problems with what they were going to be told & both said no. The female followed the instructions, was secured by officers & safely removed from the hallway. The male was given the same instructions & he failed to obey them repeatedly.

He also wasn't honest with the officers when he said he wasn't drunk. The officers took him at his word that he wasn't & they were dealing with a sober man who said he wasn't going to have problems following what he would be told to do. The toxicology report from the autopsy found that his blood-alcohol content in different areas of the body was 0.27% & 0.29%. Those two amounts are 3 times the Arizona legal limit if he had been driving a vehicle. ( Autopsy: Mesa officer shot Daniel Shaver in back, neck, chest, thigh, cheek )

Just how were they supposed to handle a call with about an armed subject pointing a scoped rifle out of a hotel window on the 5th floor? The only thing that was known is that there was a scoped rifle in that room. It was unknown what other weapons were in his possession. It was also unknown if he had a gun in his waistband where he was constantly reaching at & a place where handguns are known to be hidden.

There was no way to determine if he did or did not have a firearm until he could have been cuffed & searched like the female who obeyed all orders. But, he didn't comply for that to happen.
 
Lilac said:
I watched both videos from two news sources of what took place.

When you are given a lawful order, there is no try ... you either do or do not. And no, he was not dead the second the police arrived ... that result was from his own actions.

There are two people in those two videos that were given the same instructions & asked the same questions by the police. Both were asked if they were drunk & both said no. Both were asked if there was going to be any problems with what they were going to be told & both said no. The female followed the instructions, was secured by officers & safely removed from the hallway. The male was given the same instructions & he failed to obey them repeatedly.

He also wasn't honest with the officers when he said he wasn't drunk. The officers took him at his word that he wasn't & they were dealing with a sober man who said he wasn't going to have problems following what he would be told to do. The toxicology report from the autopsy found that his blood-alcohol content in different areas of the body was 0.27% & 0.29%. Those two amounts are 3 times the Arizona legal limit if he had been driving a vehicle. ( Autopsy: Mesa officer shot Daniel Shaver in back, neck, chest, thigh, cheek )

Just how were they supposed to handle a call with about an armed subject pointing a scoped rifle out of a hotel window on the 5th floor? The only thing that was known is that there was a scoped rifle in that room. It was unknown what other weapons were in his possession. It was also unknown if he had a gun in his waistband where he was constantly reaching at & a place where handguns are known to be hidden.

There was no way to determine if he did or did not have a firearm until he could have been cuffed & searched like the female who obeyed all orders. But, he didn't comply for that to happen.
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The cop has been fired and charged with second degree murder so obviously the prosecutor disagrees with you. People lie to cops all the time and he was probably too terrified to admit he was drunk as the cop kept threatening to shoot him. The female wasn’t talked to as mean as the male was. The guy was clearly terrified as anyone would be when someone is repeatedly threatening to shoot you.
 
Teacher Terry said:
The cop has been fired and charged with second degree murder so obviously the prosecutor disagrees with you. People lie to cops all the time and he was probably too terrified to admit he was drunk as the cop kept threatening to shoot him. The female wasn’t talked to as mean as the male was. The guy was clearly terrified as anyone would be when someone is repeatedly threatening to shoot you.
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The eight-member jury after less than six hours of deliberation in the 2017 six week trial, after watching the body cam video & hearing all of the evidence presented by the prosecutor, found him NOT GUILTY of 2nd degree murder & reckless manslaughter in the 2016 shooting.

Yes, people lie to cops. If he had admitted at the very beginning of the incident having been drunk when he was asked at first contact, the situation could have ended very differently for him also. But since he lied, we won't know now.

The tone of voice was the same for both the male & female as long as they did what they were instructed to do. She listened & complied. He did not. When someone doesn't listen, you end up raising your voice to be heard & to be taken seriously which was the case here. This was not a social gathering where polite conversation goes back & forth.

The ground work was laid out by an officer to both people on what to expect on a call resulting from a scoped rifle being pointed out a hotel window. That information let the male & female know what to expect that if they didn't comply & could result in them being shot isn't a threat. If he had listened to the officer & did exactly as the female had done, no raised voice or warnings of being shot would have been needed. He would have been cuffed & arrested without further incident.
 
Teacher Terry said:
If you watched the video you see the poor kid trying to do everything the cop wanted and begging for his life. It’s obvious from the video that the kid was dead the second that cop arrived. It’s heartbreaking.
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What shooter / suspect are you refering to here ?

If it is Danial Shaver , he was not trying to do everything the cop instructed him to do. He kept moving , and in the end he reached around toward his back. The very place so many criminals carry a pistol.
 
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I'm pretty sure they knew he had at least been drinking because they had been on the phone w someone in the room prior to Shaver and the woman coming out of the room.

The idea that 6 officers, at least 2 w rifles, couldn't take an intoxicated Shaver into custody w/out killing him is a disgrace. He was unarmed when shot. Shaver didn't give up his right to LIFE by holding a pellet gun or drunkly trying to comply w the orders as best he could. He had harmed or threatened no one, yet he was shot by some punk, meathead w 2 years "on the job" w a rifle inscribed "you're ****ed." The jury wasn't able to know about that inscription either. The cop lost his job, was tried, and the city paid out $US9.5M so many others thought he was guilty unfortunately the 12 jurors didn't agree (even OJ got off.)

I am loathe to continue in this thread or similar because I have strong beliefs about the extremely poor state of policing in the US today and it's deeply upsetting to me.

The culture and "profession" of policing is in a quagmire and a good part of that blame belongs to the cops and their enablers that believe whatever a cop does or says is only to benefit society and I'll never be affected by any of it so I don't care. Cops could demand more and better training, and they could get rid of the bad apples but the culture won't allow it.

In an effort to expose their corruption I have linked to an article about cop training, one of the 4 videos in the NJ Attorney General's report linked in the article, and the video of a pretextural traffic stop and the person guilty of nothing being harassed and his truck being sliced apart.

Police training today

I encourage you to turn on closed captions because btwn the cop jargon, accents, and the speed at which they speak it can be hard to grasp what the instructors are saying.



The following is the result of the type of training shown above and a completely innocent person is harrassed. He has filed suit against 4 cops involved.

 
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againstthegrain said:
I'm pretty sure they knew he had at least been drinking because they had been on the phone w someone in the room prior to Shaver and the woman coming out of the room.

The idea that 6 officers, at least 2 w rifles, couldn't take an intoxicated Shaver into custody w/out killing him is a disgrace. He was unarmed when shot. Shaver didn't give up his right to LIFE by holding a pellet gun or drunkly trying to comply w the orders as best he could. He had harmed or threatened no one, yet he was shot by some punk, meathead w 2 years "on the job" w a rifle inscribed "you're ****ed." The jury wasn't able to know about that inscription either. The cop lost his job, was tried, and the city paid out $US9.5M so many others thought he was guilty unfortunately the 12 jurors didn't agree (even OJ got off.)

I am loathe to continue in this thread or similar because I have strong beliefs about the extremely poor state of policing in the US today and it's deeply upsetting to me.

The culture and "profession" of policing is in a quagmire and a good part of that blame belongs to the cops and their enablers that believe whatever a cop does or says is only to benefit society and I'll never be affected by any of it so I don't care. Cops could demand more and better training, and they could get rid of the bad apples but the culture won't allow it.

In an effort to expose their corruption I have linked to an article about cop training, one of the 4 videos in the NJ Attorney General's report linked in the article, and the video of a pretextural traffic stop and the person guilty of nothing being harassed and his truck being sliced apart.

Police training today

I encourage you to turn on closed captions because btwn the cop jargon, accents, and the speed at which they speak it can be hard to grasp what the instructors are saying.



The following is the result of the type of training shown above and a completely innocent person is harrassed. He has filed suit against 4 cops involved.

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It does not matter that it was a pellet gun ... the police cannot wait to find out when a suspect is pointing it at citizens. The pellet guns today look like combat weapons and ... there are pellet guns today that are indeed lethal. And it does not matter that he was drunk, he did not follow commands , and he reached to absolute worse part of his body ... the small of his back.

That "punk" that you refer to is a young police officer out there trying to protect us. Had he hesitated , he might well have died. [if conditions were different] I for one am pleased he did not.
 
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