How do you feel about standardized testing for College entrance?

I don't know. People come from so many backgrounds. I didn't have it easy. I wonder sometimes if people at 18 are ready to really apply themselves. Some are, some are not. Graduating in my earlier 30's, one advantage I had was being super focused. This was survival. Or it was low wage menial jobs for the rest of my life. That wasn't sustainable.
 
American universities that eliminated certain entrance requirements for the sake of racial and socioeconomic equity were experimenting.

The experiment failed abominably because it didn't help the students they were hoping to help. A lot of those students dropped out, not because they weren't intelligent enough to hack college, but because without standardized testing it's impossible to know what a student's aptitudes are and match them up with the right university.

I hope states start looking closer at their public high-schools. That's where students are being let down. Public high-schools are foregoing academics to focus on social issues. That isn't their purpose. And since taxpayers fund public schools, they should demand that schools provide an academic education, period.

Well, some life-skills, too, like managing money, planning a future, running a home...but those should be electives.
 
Remy said:
I don't know. People come from so many backgrounds. I didn't have it easy. I wonder sometimes if people at 18 are ready to really apply themselves. Some are, some are not. Graduating in my earlier 30's, one advantage I had was being super focused. This was survival. Or it was low wage menial jobs for the rest of my life. That wasn't sustainable.
Click to expand...
Well, part of the reason I approve of standardized tests is because I have several degrees, those are supposed to help people avoid low wage, menial jobs, but the politics of college and hiring are so thick in my area, thick as organic, politically correct, Vegan-tofu smoothies, that I cannot get hired for a good job.

So, I have seen how "evil" standardized testing has been replaced by other kinds of measurements, and how those measurements exclude people too! The exclusions are just by a different set of criteria.
 
Charlie, who is in remedial shoe tying class, gets nothing but As in high school, and his wealthy, school endowing dad is pleased. So, yeah, there is need of a standardized test to prove you have the acquired knowledge to continue in higher education. The problem with those tests are unintended bias. Wealthy white professionals devise tests for the ideal student, and all are amazed that wealthy white students out score everybody else.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Charlie, who is in remedial shoe tying class, gets nothing but As in high school, and his wealthy, school endowing dad is pleased. So, yeah, there is need of a standardized test to prove you have the acquired knowledge to continue in higher education. The problem with those tests are unintended bias. Wealthy white professionals devise tests for the ideal student, and all are amazed that wealthy white students out score everybody else.
Click to expand...
That's the meme - that standardized tests are created by and for the White elite.

But I have seen the other side of the issue - kids socially promoted all thourgh high school without having to demonstrate competence at many basic skills. Then they go to college and maybe they are ready to learn, but maybe they are not. It depends on what course they are in.

Not every subject can be taught like its an arts degree - in the sciences, precision and correctness are still needed. In law, precision is still needed. Especially in law, if lawyers and paralegals are not precise and cautious, the innocent are convicted of crimes they did not commit and the guilty walk free.

Could we agree that perhaps a standardized test is needed for math and science majors? What about English majors? Should they score high on comprehension and vocabulary before they are admitted to the 4-year college or grad school?
 
VintageBetter said:
That's the meme - that standardized tests are created by and for the White elite.

But I have seen the other side of the issue - kids socially promoted all thourgh high school without having to demonstrate competence at many basic skills. Then they go to college and maybe they are ready to learn, but maybe they are not. It depends on what course they are in.

Not every subject can be taught like its an arts degree - in the sciences, precision and correctness are still needed. In law, precision is still needed. Especially in law, if lawyers and paralegals are not precise and cautious, the innocent are convicted of crimes they did not commit and the guilty walk free.

Could we agree that perhaps a standardized test is needed for math and science majors? What about English majors? Should they score high on comprehension and vocabulary before they are admitted to the 4-year college or grad school?
Click to expand...
No test is an accurate predictor of future accomplishments. And, yeah, I don't know why an English major should be tested on chemical ion binding. I do think testing serves as a minimal bassline for acquired knowledge. The problem is to figure out what that is for a proper basis for college.
 
VintageBetter said:
Well, part of the reason I approve of standardized tests is because I have several degrees, those are supposed to help people avoid low wage, menial jobs, but the politics of college and hiring are so thick in my area, thick as organic, politically correct, Vegan-tofu smoothies, that I cannot get hired for a good job.

So, I have seen how "evil" standardized testing has been replaced by other kinds of measurements, and how those measurements exclude people too! The exclusions are just by a different set of criteria.
Click to expand...
I can't disagree with your post. I can assure you, I would have ticked none of those boxes. Yet I was terribly raised, but not poor. I had no confidence. I was even put in classes for slow learners in grade school and high school when I certainly am not. If I was, I would not have been 4th in my graduating class.

I don't believe in inclusion because you can never include everyone. It's just a dog whistle, make me feel good for saying it fallacy.

And I love tofu. Got two packages in the fridge.
 
I'd also like to add: How did I get into my program? Lotto baby! And looking back, I'm so glad I did. I was lucky enough to be one of the original names pulled. I didn't have to wait for my name to drop.

However I deserved to get in. All my prerequisites were done. One B in one English class. Nothing below an A- for this slow learner after that. Had it been interview, some prettier number could have certainly been selected over me.
 
I think that standardized test scores are generally over-emphasized in college admissions screenings. Success in college as well as in life itself generally hinges on the triad of ability (which tests establish), as well as on ambition and personal discipline. I’ve personally seen college students with established ability drop out or fail out because they didn’t really want to be there, or lacked the self-discipline to make themselves buckle down and do the grind work…👨‍🎓
 
Fyrefox said:
I think that standardized test scores are generally over-emphasized in college admissions screenings. Success in college as well as in life itself generally hinges on the triad of ability (which tests establish), as well as on ambition and personal discipline. I’ve personally seen college students with established ability drop out or fail out because they didn’t really want to be there, or lacked the self-discipline to make themselves buckle down and do the grind work…👨‍🎓
Click to expand...
Quit talking about me, Fyrefox! On the first day of college my advisor said that I had unusually high SAT scores and bad high school grades and students with that combination usually flunk out. And I did! Because of the very things I lacked, ambition and discipline.

I'm all for keeping the tests, but when a high school student with a high IQ keeps making bad grades it would be nice if just once a teacher paid attention and helped them with a little advice on how to study and focus.

My son ( an "A" student all the way through) came home from school one day and mumbled something about his history teacher saying they had to "3R the Parthenon" I said, "What is that?" Then he explained the "read, recite, review," study technique and I thought, I would have killed to know that in school
 
Fyrefox said:
I think that standardized test scores are generally over-emphasized in college admissions screenings. Success in college as well as in life itself generally hinges on the triad of ability (which tests establish), as well as on ambition and personal discipline. I’ve personally seen college students with established ability drop out or fail out because they didn’t really want to be there, or lacked the self-discipline to make themselves buckle down and do the grind work…👨‍🎓
Click to expand...
Studies have shown that success in life is dependent on many factors.

They include what zip code a person grew up in (because many zip codes have sub-standard K-12 schools),
depends on a person's height and weight (tall people are more likely to get hired than shorties),
depends on if a person is pretty/handsome vs. homely/ugly,
depends on is a person is thin or obese,
depends on a person's Social Capital - do they and their parents have access to a network of successful, White Collar advisors, employees & employers, or does their Social Capital consist of lower class workers and even the formerly incarcerated?

And, of course, our three old favorites of racism, sexism and ageism also influence whether or not a person is successful in life.

I have seen this in my own life. My ex-spouse is successful because he had access to plenty of White Collar advisors and mentors who taught him the ropes of how to be like them.

I had infinitesimal access to mentors.

Now, if my ex-husband had been a Black man without a degree, I do wonder if he'd even have been hired to be in a position to have so much access to White Collar mentorship in his field.

Both men would have worked hard, right? Would the Black man with no degree had been made partner? That is a question for the ages.

I won't post the links, but go ahead and look up whether tall people are more likely to get hired, thin people, handsome people, etc. It's all out there online - our collective biases and prejudices are all backed up by research.

The solution is, of course, to be born to the right parents, and be thin and pretty!!! Be tall too if you can manage it. Why do you think so many women still wear heels? Not because they feel great on our feet.

It also helps a lot to marry a supportive spouse so you, regardless of gender, can focus 150% on your career.
 
Schools are looking for ways to predict academic success. These tests give a bit more information to admissions. I don't totally buy the argument that those with lower test scores won't bother applying to elite universities. One can always apply to any school. And we know there are kids with almost perfect SAT scores who get denied admission. So, it's a part of the entire process.
 
I attended a state school with an open admission policy, all one needed to get in was a beating heart and cash in hand. The ACT was encouraged, but not required, I sat in classes with people that it would be kind to call stupid. So, yes I'm in favor of entrance testing.
 
Some might say it should be standards for colleges vs standardized testing for students/applicants.

That being said those that advocate for lower or less entrance standards will be the ones paying for remedial non credit courses to learn the stuff they need to get through college. It's not just money but time as well. They'll be attending their classmate's graduation as a student with a year or two to go.
 
Think most of the Public Schooling in Large Metro areas are about childcare.
The Childs follow their dreams, interests with their 5G Cell phones.

They skip school, quit, get their GED's and do some Adult school training.
They don't own huge Contracts to pay school loans, team up with friends
and do just fine. Mary's with Ken.

Small Colleges are closing the doors because of poor enrollments.
World life is changing.

Why drive to work. That's dumb!

Well, is that what they think? Apple Pay, Google or Microsoft.
A cashless world with a debit chipped forehead?

We have a young Turkish Couple as neighbors with a Lil one in a stroller.
Life's great. Sure they are probably spies! Not my paygrade to option that.
 
Last edited:
Absolutely.

I don't have any sympathy for PC social engineering for entering higher learning education nor for those whining that claim testing is biased.
 
VintageBetter said:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/25/us/yale-sat-act-test-application/index.html

Personally, I agree with it. I think it should be part of the acceptance consideration. Not the full weight of it, or even 80% of the decision, but certainly part of it.
Click to expand...

If not some kind of standard test, then what?

To be successful at college, you need to have a minimum skill level. Apparently, 21% of Americans are illiterate. 54% of adults have a literacy below sixth-grade level. Given that, what chance would they have of getting on at college? College isn't the place to learn such things, it's advanced education. So they need to set the line somewhere.

In the UK 20% of the UK adult population is functionally illiterate, which means there are around 6m people who barely get by. Are they ready for college? No, no they're not.
 
Once accepted, there are usually placement exams. This is another type of sorting. I remember one of the issues during my faculty years, was the large number of students scoring in the remedial range. This should be expected at a community college but not at a flagship state R-1. I had also seen it as a student. Freshman that could test into second year calculus but barely write a coherent essay. This is where a standardized test score doesn’t seem to line up with ability.

There are holes in the system, and depending on who is doing the advising, ways to get around “weaknesses.” And don’t get me started on legacy admissions. No easy answers.
 
College/ universities are a business anymore and they simply do not care about their outcome just the $$ coming in....

The standard test will eliminate some of their potential "customers" will not get in ........and bring all the grants/ loans scholarships aimed at specific groups or income levels to the university coffers......

After students graduate........ their success or failure is no longer a concern for the school....

Common sense needs to return to education in general ....outcomes matter.
 
Jeni said:
College/ universities are a business anymore and they simply do not care about their outcome just the $$ coming in....

The standard test will eliminate some of their potential "customers" will not get in ........and bring all the grants/ loans scholarships aimed at specific groups or income levels to the university coffers......

After students graduate........ their success or failure is no longer a concern for the school....

Common sense needs to return to education in general ....outcomes matter.
Click to expand...
Once more third party money became readily available to colleges like grants, loans, scholarships and employer paid tuition college tuition inflation starting outpacing inflation in the real world. Stuff that would be handled by a board now has paid administrators.

College is dated in several respects. 100 years ago one could only get certain information by attending college but now there is a lot more access to a variety of information. High school is currently making itself obsolete because 100 years ago a high school graduate left with enough grammar and math ability to make it into upper management of a business. In many cases an old high school diploma/graduate would be worth more than a current college degree/graduate.
 
First of all writing a book isn't on most Teen minds. Doing an essay is boring. Most of school, learning about the Famous killers the
World has ever had is also a bore. All the Dynasties and Pharoh's total blab. History repeats, you don't need to study what's going on
or what's going to happen because its already happened before. It's obvious that it hasn't helped human generation at all ever.
Kids follow your dream. The rest is your wasted years of time.

Look at all we have accomplished, Bombs, mini-Bombs, hypersonic Bombs, unpiloted bombs. Super Carriers to carry bombers, Subs for bombing. 10's of millions of Auto's and Trucks. More moving bombs. Education above Sophomore doesn't help at all, things just get worse.

Just today I typed into my puter asking about the Blues. Southern born, has spread thru out the world and is in most all genre of music.
See it took just a few seconds to know something great. I could have spent years in a Musical College!

Success =

What's the formula for success - Bing
 

Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top