Question for the Atheist

Naturally said:
Even atheist beliefs themselves have much less to do with rational inquiry than atheists often think.
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As an atheist, I have no beliefs, not in a supreme being, ghost, angels, devils, the afterlife, etc. I've never thought of myself as more rational than someone because they do believe in the supernatural (in any of its forms). I myself spent many years trying to believe in a god because most of the people around me did and I thought I should too. It took me way too long to realize that I'm just not a believer. I don't even like to use the words believe or belief; I prefer to use the word "think"; as in "I think there is (or is not) enough evidence to support that theory." Having faith or belief in something for which there is no proof is just not the way I am.
 

officerripley said:
Having faith or belief in something for which there is no proof is just not the way I am.
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I'm different in that I see proof all around ... but understand skepticism in others.
After all, some of that proof is in a religious context or teaching and/or a spiritual point of view.
And perhaps one teaching is that there are those who think there is no evidence.
We all have choices and I'm okay with "yours"
 
I won't answer each question individually, but I don't believe in the God that is portrayed in the Bible or in churches. I do believe in a higher power, although I have no idea what it may be. I've had a good life, and there have been times when it could have gone sideways but things have always worked out for me (fingers crossed). Yes, it has to do with my own accountability but I've sometimes felt I've had a "guardian angel".

I actually feel fortunate that I grew up in the Christian religion because I believe that one must always look at both sides of an argument before making a decision, and it made me realize that there was no realistic argument to be made for Christianity, other than to comfort and provide hope to those who needed it. I prefer science.
 

I don't claim to be an atheist but rather a strange Agnostic. I have found that I need to believe in something for self preservation. I had given up all hopes of a higher power for awhile and started feeling utterly hopeless.

Not sure the two are connected but it can get scary with not believing any unless you can tell me something else I don't know.
 
Ruthanne said:
I don't claim to be an atheist but rather a strange Agnostic. I have found that I need to believe in something for self preservation. I had given up all hopes of a higher power for awhile and started feeling utterly hopeless.

Not sure the two are connected but it can get scary with not believing any unless you can tell me something else I don't know.
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Believe in yourself. Its empowering.
 
As far as believing in a deity, it's whatever floats your boat. Of course, that means you leave my boat alone. I find that some religious want me to live by their beliefs. Since I am not a member of your religion, unless my actions are prohibited by civil law; I don't have to abide by your traditions. I can do things like eat a ham sandwich on Sunday as I bowl all day long.
 
VisualBrian said:
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god, not a "belief system" or "way of life" or "group" of any kind.
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I would have said the same at one time but that is misleading. When you look at the deep assumptions often cited for dismissing religion in favor of science and rational argument you find such things as a deep abiding faith that in time science will reveal all truth the truth we'll ever have. But that overlooks all the truth of narrative, poetry and everything we know by intuition and feeling. The less obvious truths can't be verified in a laboratory or arrived at by logic but these human truths are no less true for that.
 
I don't know. I'm just a woman, perhaps one who's been hurt too much by life recently to be reduced to a label like atheist or spiritual. I'm far more complex than that. Does this make sense to anyone?
 
MarkD said:
I would have said the same at one time but that is misleading. When you look at the deep assumptions often cited for dismissing religion in favor of science and rational argument you find such things as a deep abiding faith that in time science will reveal all truth the truth we'll ever have. But that overlooks all the truth of narrative, poetry and everything we know by intuition and feeling. The less obvious truths can't be verified in a laboratory or arrived at by logic but these human truths are no less true for that.
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I agree that there are various reasons cited for a lack of belief in a god (for me it is simply that I don't have sufficient evidence for the claim) but that doesn't change the fact that Atheism is a lack of belief in a god. That is the only question addressed by Atheism. I do not "dismiss religion" or overlook the "truth of narrative, poetry and everything we know by intuition and feeling". I simply do not find these things convincing. The reasoning people use is varied, but the result is simply Atheism, a lack of belief in a god.
 
chic said:
I don't know. I'm just a woman, perhaps one who's been hurt too much by life recently to be reduced to a label like atheist or spiritual. I'm far more complex than that. Does this make sense to anyone?
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I'm not a big fan of labels either for the very reasons we see in this thread and that's why I've tried to clarify the meanings. When I'm asked, I prefer to say that I simply don't believe in god because some have been told that Atheist worship Satan and will eat your children.

I'm not comfortable with the "I'm just a woman" thing. It's toxic and I wish you'd never use it again. You understand that you're complex and that's good. I'm certain that you're much more than that. Believe in yourself.
 
Naturally said:
I'm different in that I see proof all around ... but understand skepticism in others.
After all, some of that proof is in a religious context or teaching and/or a spiritual point of view.
And perhaps one teaching is that there are those who think there is no evidence.
We all have choices and I'm okay with "yours"
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And another way I'm different is that I see coincidences all around; I think they're the most prevalent thing in existence.
 
Mr. Ed said:
Do you have a need to worship/support a higher power?

Do you replace god with something else?

Do you believe in spirituality?

Can you be spiritual and not believe in god?

Do you have/attend a formal group for discussion and socialization?
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None of the above.
 
Do you have a need to worship/support a higher power?

Answer :No, I have no NEED OR DESIRE to acknowledge a higher power. If I have a problem, I look to the higher power within me (try to think through the problem as in as clear-minded way as I can to find a solution).

Do you replace god with something else?

Answer: Since I don't believe in a god there is nothing to replace.

Do you believe in spirituality?

Answer: I'm not sure what spirituality really means, but the closest I think I come to that is finding peace, healing and beauty in nature...trees, mountains, lakes, sunshine, birds, animals, etc.

Can you be spiritual and not believe in god?

Answer: See my previous answer.

Do you have/attend a formal group for discussion and socialization?

Answer: No. Unfortunately, I have found it difficult to find discussion groups where one can engage in meaningful, thoughtful, discussion without people bringing up their kids/grandkids, religious beliefs, politics and conspiracy theories. Conversation devolves from there.
 
It was hard for me to dismiss god as non-existence. It makes sense though as having no proof of existence, only by word of mouth, and books related to the subject. It is odd, that the Bible and other text proclaim god , Jesus whatever, but these were handed down verbally as well. No physical evidence that directly point to physical proof any religious orientation from the Bible.

It is no more farfetched that alien creatures created earth, bible and so forth. But people don’t believe that, they believe in the supernatural manifestation of a controlling deity via instrumentation of sin, threats, conditions, and restrictions no different than coming from an alien.
 
Mr. Ed said:
It was hard for me to dismiss god as non-existence. It makes sense though as having no proof of existence, only by word of mouth, and books related to the subject.
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Remember that Einstein was a believer, and he was smarter than some whole towns put together. Just because there's no proof doesn't mean it's not so.
 
gruntlabor said:
Remember that Einstein was a believer, and he was smarter than some whole towns put together. Just because there's no proof doesn't mean it's not so.
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Albert Einstein's religious views have been widely studied and often misunderstood. Albert Einstein stated "I believe in Spinoza's God". He did not believe in a personal God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings, a view which he described as naïve.
Religious and philosophical views of Albert Einstein - Wikipedia
According to Spinoza, God is the natural world. Spinoza concludes that God is the substance comprising the universe; that God exists in itself, not outside of the universe; and that the universe exists as it does from necessity, not because of a divine theological reason or will.
Ethics (Spinoza book) - Wikipedia
 
VisualBrian said:
Albert Einstein's religious views have been widely studied and often misunderstood. Albert Einstein stated "I believe in Spinoza's God". He did not believe in a personal God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings, a view which he described as naïve.
Religious and philosophical views of Albert Einstein - Wikipedia
According to Spinoza, God is the natural world. Spinoza concludes that God is the substance comprising the universe; that God exists in itself, not outside of the universe; and that the universe exists as it does from necessity, not because of a divine theological reason or will.
Ethics (Spinoza book) - Wikipedia
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That's exactly why the question of God belief should not be reduced to whether or not one believes in a person-like god. What counts as god will vary and the role god belief plays in lived experience will vary accordingly. I don't believe in a personal god but I find room for more a robust god at work in consciousness which has nothing to do with directing the events of the world.
 
MarkD said:
That's exactly why the question of God belief should not be reduced to whether or not one believes in a person-like god. What counts as god will vary and the role god belief plays in lived experience will vary accordingly. I don't believe in a personal god but I find room for more a robust god at work in consciousness which has nothing to do with directing the events of the world.
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I do believe in a personal God because I feel It. And I say "It" because because that's what It is to me. I can't describe It. So in that respect It is not personal, or, at least, not a person in the way we normally think of what or who a particular person may be.
In my mind this thing people refer to as God is consciousness itself, ultimate consciousness, divine consciousness, universal consciousness, the All in All. It is the highest point on the consciousness evolutionary scale.
We are all growing toward it or moving farther away. And that is a direct result of the choices we make. But no matter what path we take or the choices we make we all will eventually return there because It is where we all came from.
For some it just takes longer, but don't worry, eternity is a long time. And quite likely, the best and quickest way to get there is to not believe in anything.
I find that I believe in everything, but only and always with that proverbial grain of salt, and always ready to change my opinion if better insight presents.
In the meantime, enjoy the ride. I hope you find it as amazing and beautiful as I do.
 
No matter how eventful our lives are, I, like others, sometimes feel a sense of loss and devastating loneliness. And in such moments, a dialog with God is very much needed. And I, as an atheist, need such a dialog twice as much, because I don't even have hope.:(

If I knew how to envy, I would envy believing people for their faith and hope.
 
Kir7 said:
No matter how eventful our lives are, I, like others, sometimes feel a sense of loss and devastating loneliness. And in such moments, a dialog with God is very much needed. And I, as an atheist, need such a dialog twice as much, because I don't even have hope.:(

If I knew how to envy, I would envy believing people for their faith and hope.
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By the thinking of most of the online atheists I’ve chatted with in cyberspace I am an atheist too. But I don’t accept their evaluation of what is involved anymore than I accept the loudest fundamentalist Christian’s evaluation of who/what God is.

I find I do have faith enough to feel the presence of what is greater. For one thing I notice my immediate response to questions of interest is not to evaluate the available answers but rather simply to hold a space open in my thoughts for wonder. Being receptive to our better lights is more important to me than being decisive quickly. There are layers to consciousness and if what men call God is in everything he is there too. It is hard to know god not because that is so high and far away but because it is so near. I think of it as a silent partner.

I’ve spent a few years in conversation with some very thoughtful, educated Christians trying to understand what God means to them and how that shapes the way they experience the world. In the process I’ve also found I can concede more to them than when I started out. Now I like to say I think what has given rise to god belief is real, dynamic and important.

Of course I do not accept that there was a moment in history when god as a powerful being entered the world to make a show of bending natural law with miracles so that people would believe. I don’t know for sure it didn’t happen but I set it aside as an unimportant distraction. What really matters is that we have a silent partner here and now who is actively involved in our lives. We and it bring each other into existence and that gives me hope.
 
VisualBrian said:
I agree that there are various reasons cited for a lack of belief in a god (for me it is simply that I don't have sufficient evidence for the claim) but that doesn't change the fact that Atheism is a lack of belief in a god. That is the only question addressed by Atheism. I do not "dismiss religion" or overlook the "truth of narrative, poetry and everything we know by intuition and feeling". I simply do not find these things convincing. The reasoning people use is varied, but the result is simply Atheism, a lack of belief in a god.
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People who do believe make a lot of claims depending on what tradition their belief comes from and what sense they individually have been able to make of it. There is no simple understanding of “a god” which everyone has in mind whether they believe in it or don’t. Not everyone thinks of a god as a separate entity with an independent existence. But if you think of it in that way and in so doing decide you don’t believe in it that is entirely your business. We all make those choices the best way we know how.
 

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