Another cargo ship loses power in NY , almost hits Verrazzano bridge

Another cargo ship loses power almost hits NYCs Verrazzano bridge. The ship already had 3 tugs but 3 more were needed to get control of the ship. Most definitely a case for tug boats. Disaster averted!
Has it always been like this and we're just hearing of it more now because of Baltimore? I know that after that first big train derailment, it was happening all the time, but then I realized it was just reported on every time it happened, but derailments happen often. Is losing power on a ship that large a common occurrence?
 
I wonder if these power outages are being purposely done as an attack on the country itself . It seems too much of a coincidence to me.
This would seem like it would require some pretty specialized hacking and/or detailed knowledge. They would have to know what type of systems/computers these ships are using to control the power(common software or hardware/computer?). They would also need a spotter if it wasn't being tracked.

Just by coincidence they lose power as they are approaching a bridge on the east coast? Mess up shipping on the east coast would create supply chain issues.
 
Someone on another forum I'm a member of and someone that works on and around large cargo ships speculated that more strict regulations on sulfur content in fuel imposed by the International Maritime Organization (IMO) and other regulatory bodies around the world, have caused widespread problems for ships with power plants that weren't built to run optimally on ultra low sulfur fuel. These ultra low sulfur fuels ... particularly for heavy fuel oil like container ships burn ... have been causing all kinds of hell throughout the industry, due to low sulfur fuel causing engine parts to seize up, ships loosing power and going dark.

Here is the IMO 2020 - cutting sulphur oxide emissions
 
Someone on another forum I'm a member of and someone that works on and around large cargo ships speculated that more strict regulations on sulfur content in fuel imposed by the International Maritime Organization (IMO) and other regulatory bodies around the world, have caused widespread problems for ships with power plants that weren't built to run optimally on ultra low sulfur fuel. These ultra low sulfur fuels ... particularly for heavy fuel oil like container ships burn ... have been causing all kinds of hell throughout the industry, due to low sulfur fuel causing engine parts to seize up, ships loosing power and going dark.

Here is the IMO 2020 - cutting sulphur oxide emissions
If it was an environmental reason, crashing ships into a bridge where tons of oil could be released into the water doesn’t make sense.

To me, it would seem more like a terrorist attack on the US economy. 911 happened in New York City.
 
If it was an environmental reason, crashing ships into a bridge where tons of oil could be released into the water doesn’t make sense.

To me, it would seem more like a terrorist attack on the US economy. 911 happened in New York City.

In no way was it inferred to be an environmental reason. Just pointing out that someone around the industry has speculated that reformulated fuels to comply with current sulfur restrictions in fuel oil might be triggering failures in engines that were not designed to run optimally on ultra low sulfur fuels, resulting in lose of power and all that might entail.

Perhaps to understand that point, some knowledge of internal combustion engine operations may be necessary. Dunno. The point was from an engineering point of view, not environmental.

On the other hand, yes, environmental regulation is what has caused the "hell" industry wide. Environmental regulation may have outpaced advancements in engine proficiency.

Furthermore, if it were a terrorist event, someone somewhere would be bragging about responsibility. They always do and no one has.

9sXvAWv.jpeg
 
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In no way was it inferred to be an environmental reason. Just pointing out that someone around the industry has speculated that reformulated fuels to comply with current sulfur restrictions in fuel oil might be triggering failures in engines that were not designed to run optimally on ultra low sulfur fuels, resulting in lose of power and all that might entail.

Perhaps to understand that point, some knowledge of internal combustion engine operations may be necessary. Dunno

Furthermore, if it were a terrorist event, someone somewhere would be bragging about responsibility. They always do and no one has.

9sXvAWv.jpeg
Both ships losing power just before going under the bridge? No tinfoil hat needed to wonder if it wasn’t deliberately done.
 
Someone on another forum I'm a member of and someone that works on and around large cargo ships speculated that more strict regulations on sulfur content in fuel imposed by the International Maritime Organization (IMO) and other regulatory bodies around the world, have caused widespread problems for ships with power plants that weren't built to run optimally on ultra low sulfur fuel. These ultra low sulfur fuels ... particularly for heavy fuel oil like container ships burn ... have been causing all kinds of hell throughout the industry, due to low sulfur fuel causing engine parts to seize up, ships loosing power and going dark.
If nothing else there could be a 'conspiracy' to ignore the negative effects of these fuels.
 
Most of these ships are pretty old, and regular inspections are not always thorough...or regular. Sometimes the inspections aren't even done but the paperwork is signed off as though it was. Repairs are well-recorded, but if the work was sloppy or they used substandard materials, nobody makes a note of that.

Moving cargo is an extremely lucrative business. Ship owners will do whatever it takes to keep those boats on the water while cutting costs.
 
Both ships losing power just before going under the bridge? No tinfoil hat needed to wonder if it wasn’t deliberately done.

A terrorist or sabotage event is not inconceivable. Though that's not the direction I'm leaning toward.

There are many other factors to consider. Such as speed restrictions and ship maneuverability in the often "narrow" channels around bridges. Those HUGE ships engines are not started at will by a simple turn of a key next to the "steering wheel" on the ship's bridge if the ship loses power. Those engines are started by using high volume compressed air to turn the HUGE engines over. The storage of that high volume of compressed air is not infinite. In fact, if the engine doesn't start on the first three or four tries ... forget about it.

Additionally, in order to maintain speed restrictions near bridges on large ships, it is sometimes necessary to stop the engine. The propeller shaft can not be stopped otherwise ... so ~475# of compressed air is used to start, and every start reduces pressure. One problem is harbor pilots who "waste" orders and who start and then almost immediately go back to stop on slow speed diesel engines. There is only so much air in the air tanks. Sometimes it's hard to keep up with a harbor pilot who isn't used to slow speed diesels even when two air compressors are online.

My friend also stated that off the top of his head, "I believe the regulation is the ship must be able to make 9 consecutive starts. During the commissioning of my vessel, we literally had to start and stop the main engines 9 (?) consecutive times in front of the Coast Guard. Meaning we pumped up the air receivers to full, secured the air compressors, and then proceeded with the test. On heavy fuel, with the engine hot, the engine usually cranked up pretty fast. A slow speed diesel takes a bit more to get turned over as I'm sure you can imagine."

Running and maneuvering a large ship in and out of port is a complicated exercise and any number of things can and sometimes do go wrong. Also, when entering and leaving port, the ships captain is not at the helm ... a harbor pilot is. Someone intimately familiar with and trained concerning the currents, channels and any possible obstructions such as bridges ... and any unique port environmental concerns the wind and weather might toss in. Each and every port has their own harbor pilots and that's all they do, take a ship into and out of port.

A small craft carries the harbor pilots to and from the large ships ... doesn't mean the harbor pilots are intimately familiar with the engineering aspects of a unique and specific ship. Guess a lot depends on the extent of a harbor pilot's experience with various ships.
 
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Like others have mentioned, this makes me wonder if these are cyber attacks. I don't think the investigation on what happened in Baltimore has concluded yet, but it will be interesting to see what they determine was the cause. That certainly was disaster averted.
 
A terrorist or sabotage event is not inconceivable. Though that's not the direction I'm leaning toward.

There are many other factors to consider. Such as speed restrictions and ship maneuverability in the often "narrow" channels around bridges. Those HUGE ships engines are not started at will by a simple turn of a key next to the "steering wheel" on the ship's bridge if the ship loses power. Those engines are started by using high volume compressed air to turn the HUGE engines over. The storage of that high volume of compressed air is not infinite. In fact, if the engine doesn't start on the first three or four tries ... forget about it.

Additionally, in order to maintain speed restrictions near bridges on large ships, it is sometimes necessary to stop the engine. The propeller shaft can not be stopped otherwise ... so ~475# of compressed air is used to start, and every start reduces pressure. One problem is harbor pilots who "waste" orders and who start and then almost immediately go back to stop on slow speed diesel engines. There is only so much air in the air tanks. Sometimes it's hard to keep up with a harbor pilot who isn't used to slow speed diesels even when two air compressors are online.

My friend also stated that off the top of his head, "I believe the regulation is the ship must be able to make 9 consecutive starts. During the commissioning of my vessel, we literally had to start and stop the main engines 9 (?) consecutive times in front of the Coast Guard. Meaning we pumped up the air receivers to full, secured the air compressors, and then proceeded with the test. On heavy fuel, with the engine hot, the engine usually cranked up pretty fast. A slow speed diesel takes a bit more to get turned over as I'm sure you can imagine."

Running and maneuvering a large ship in and out of port is a complicated exercise and any number of things can and sometimes do go wrong.
Big ship engine problems aren’t something I know a thing about. All I know is that communication was lost on both ships right before a critical point - going under the bridge.

It ‘could’ just be coincidence but I don’t think so.
 
Big ship engine problems aren’t something I know a thing about. All I know is that communication was lost on both ships right before a critical point - going under the bridge.

It ‘could’ just be coincidence but I don’t think so.

Can you cite where you found that information because I don't see it at all.
In fact, it was communications from the ship in Baltimore that saved many lives on that bridge.
 
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Another cargo ship loses power almost hits NYCs Verrazzano bridge. The ship already had 3 tugs but 3 more were needed to get control of the ship. Most definitely a case for tug boats. Disaster averted!

Massive container ship loses power near NYC’s Verrazzano Bridge days after Baltimore Key Bridge disaster

No pattern here, right?
Cargo ships are supposed to stay in a channel away from bridge supports. Some bridges have flashing red lights on their supports, so ships could avoid smashing into the them. Ships do not have breaks, and they do not pivot easily. If for any reason a cargo ship is off course and heading for a bridge support, a flashing red light ain't gonna do much. Not having barriers to protect bridge supports in cargo ship lanes is sheer negligence.
 
Can you site where you found that information because I don't see it at all.
In fact, it was communications from the ship in Baltimore that saved many lives on that bridge.
Maybe I misunderstood. Ok get me the aluminum hat. Oddly enough I quit using cannabis a month ok. I’m completely straight. My minds not working well.
 
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There's usually a couple of "dolphins" (the channel equivalent of pierside "fenders" in a way, you could say) on either side of the channel to funnel ships through and under bridges, however there's only so much that can be engineered to protect the pilings before you start encroaching into the shipping channel. Most people have never seen nor, do they understand the size of modern container vessels, A PANAMAX sized ship is going to destroy whatever gets in front of it, even a glancing blow is catastrophic.

Another thing to remember too is that many bridges were built long before cargo ships became as large as they have. In the case of the Dali in Baltimore, the Dali is ~TWICE as long as cargo ships were when that Baltimore bridge was built.

IMG-1929.jpg


And here is a nautical chart showing placement of the "dolphins" around the bridge in Baltimore. May have been good protection way back when, but surely needed to to be upgraded as ships became larger ...

IMG-1930.jpg
 
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There's usually a couple of "dolphins" (the channel equivalent of pierside "fenders" in a way, you could say) on either side of the channel to funnel ships through and under bridges, however there's only so much that can be engineered to protect the pilings before you start encroaching into the shipping channel. Most people have never seen nor, do they understand the size of modern container vessels, A PANAMAX sized ship is going to destroy whatever gets in front of it, even a glancing blow is catastrophic.

Another thing to remember too is that many bridges were built long before cargo ships became as large as they have. In the case of the Dali in Baltimore, the Dali is TWICE as long as cargo ships were when that Baltimore bridge was built.

IMG-1929.jpg


And here is a nautical chart showing placement of the "dolphins" around the bridge in Baltimore. May have been good protection way back when, but surely needed to to be upgraded as ships became larger ...

IMG-1930.jpg
Ok now you’re just showing off. 🙄😂
 
Cargo ships are supposed to stay in a channel away from bridge supports. Some bridges have flashing red lights on their supports, so ships could avoid smashing into the them. Ships do not have breaks, and they do not pivot easily. If for any reason a cargo ship is off course and heading for a bridge support, a flashing red light ain't gonna do much. Not having barriers to protect bridge supports in cargo ship lanes is sheer negligence.
They know and are expensive to protect not that they are not worth it. Saw one bridge it costs them over 100 million to protect supports. It will cost 93 million dollars to protect the Delaware Memorial Bridge in Delaware. They're not exactly short projects either.

$93M modernization project to protect Delaware Memorial Bridge from ship crashes
 
I remember one of the informational videos after the Baltimore bridge said that bridge engineering changed to make them safer from cargo ship collisions after a 1980 Florida bridge was knocked down. But, the Baltimore bridge was built in 1970 so it was before the safer engineering was begun.
 
Thank you for sharing your knowledge in this area @Naturally. Clearly there is a lot of misinformation and unfounded speculation circulating regarding the Francis Scott Key bridge incident at the moment. Your posts should help clarify things for those who are willing to pay attention. (y)
 
Someone on another forum I'm a member of and someone that works on and around large cargo ships speculated that more strict regulations on sulfur content in fuel imposed by the International Maritime Organization (IMO) and other regulatory bodies around the world, have caused widespread problems for ships with power plants that weren't built to run optimally on ultra low sulfur fuel. These ultra low sulfur fuels ... particularly for heavy fuel oil like container ships burn ... have been causing all kinds of hell throughout the industry, due to low sulfur fuel causing engine parts to seize up, ships loosing power and going dark.

Here is the IMO 2020 - cutting sulphur oxide emissions
Thanks for dispelling some of the conspiracies and enlightening us to the deets.

There are alternatives for ships designed to run on the old fuels. They could have continued to use the high sulphur fuel by installing on board scrubbers to meet the requirements of the 2020 regulation.

It's just the same as removing lead from gasoline or having low sulphur diesel for on road vehicles. For the most part owners of these vessels want to maximize profitability so they'll choose the cheapest method to meet the requirements. Owners of these vessels should not be able to spew pollution in ports and harbors simply because it's cheaper or easier for them.
 


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