Climate Change is in Turbo Mode.

Kinda makes me wonder what the egyptions were thinking
when the sands started covering their tombs !?!?
 

dilettante said:
There has to be some middle ground somewhere. This has become a political football where the sport is played by demanding sacrifices by other people while accepting none yourself. All the while ignoring that some people are already making significant sacrifices while others have no intention of beginning their own.

So many falsies out there, from "greenness" of EVs to the plastic recycling scam and beyond.

Yes, Canada is one of our major polluters here. Don't even get me started on those douchebags at Enbridge.
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China used to accept recyclables from all over the world including Canada and the USA, as did the Philippines and probably a few other countries. But they've all stopped doing that I believe because some was just garbage in the containers.

I think every country should manage its own waste. If nothing else, it means jobs at home.

As for your list of 'green falsies', you have two choices. Do nothing and the planet vomits most of humanity out sooner rather than later or try to find ways to do life in as sustainable a way as is possible at any given moment. Nothing will ever be the perfect answer unless we all sign on to go back to living in a cave and having a rock as your only possession. And I don't think that's likely at all do you?
 
dilettante said:
Carlin was more complex than people want to pretend today.

His "liberal persona" for standup was adopted later in his career as more marketable. That was really about it.


Many of his early roles in film and TV were even "rougher" - he was pretty extreme. Yet the liberal myth persists.
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Or maybe he evolved.
 

Debrah N. said:
Nothing will ever be the perfect answer unless we all sign on to go back to living in a cave and having a rock as your only possession. And I don't think that's likely at all do you?
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There are real problems, but they stem from overconsumption. Generally by the same people wringing their hands and asking others to sacrifice.
 
This isn't about asking others to sacrifice - what individuals can do is akin to bailing out the ocean with teaspoons - it helps, but mostly imperceptibly.

Change has to come from the top. Political leaders have to step up and DO SOMETHING, including putting serious money into alternative energy sources as public works, using money from fining, heavily taxing, and constraining fossil fuel companies. For heaven's sake, we give those corporations tax BREAKS now. What's wrong with us?

Will change be expensive, inconvenient and require sacrifices? Of course. On the other hand, incalulable human suffering, losses and massive migrations will occur when oceans rise 3 feet or more in the next couple of decades. The way we're going it's not an if, it's a when.

Those scenarios will be far more expensive and inconvenient.
 
iji said:
As has happened several times on this earth before (since Noah's time). ;)
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I bring migration up because the planet is already well populated throughout. Those blessed occupants of less climate-affected areas will find ourselves knee deep in new neighbors who arrive with little besides the clothes on their backs.

Desperate people whose very lives are at stake will stream (mostly) north to the US, Europe, perhaps Russia and China, and I don't know where else. Possibly south to AU and NZ, from Southeast Asia.
 
StarSong said:
This isn't about asking others to sacrifice
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StarSong said:
Will change be expensive, inconvenient and require sacrifices? Of course.
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Er... :ROFLMAO:

It's always about asking others to sacrifice so the privileged can enjoy their privileges without taking responsibility for their costs.

Nobody is saying you can't choose to live on the lip of the volcano, but don't expect the prudent to keep rescuing you. It's just one more aspect of the old Ants & the Grasshopper fable:

One bright day in late autumn a family of Ants were bustling about in the warm sunshine, drying out the grain they had stored up during the summer, when a starving Grasshopper, his fiddle under his arm, came up and humbly begged for a bite to eat.​
​
"What!" cried the Ants in surprise, "haven't you stored anything away for the winter? What in the world were you doing all last summer?"​
​
"I didn't have time to store up any food," whined the Grasshopper; "I was so busy making music that before I knew it the summer was gone."​
​
The Ants shrugged their shoulders in disgust.​
​
"Making music, were you?" they cried. "Very well; now dance!" And they turned their backs on the Grasshopper and went on with their work.​
​
There's a time for work and a time for play.
the-ants-and-the-grasshopper.jpg​
 
Has anyone here seen the documentary "Grab" from 2022?

Fascinating stuff. Essentially, it shows how Wall Street and foreign governments are working to buy up arable land globally, along with water supplies. They're essentially positioning themselves to own the sources of food, because they know that will global warming, patterns will change. For example, Russia will become a major provider of grain. Africa is being bought up. China own a quarter of pork production in the US.

Interesting stuff, and lifts the lid on a lot of misinformation. Worth watching. It starts with people in Arizona having their wells run dry because China has created huge farms and drained the aquifers. It then moves on to Africa.....
 
VaughanJB said:
Has anyone here seen the documentary "Grab" from 2022?

Fascinating stuff. Essentially, it shows how Wall Street and foreign governments are working to buy up arable land globally, along with water supplies. They're essentially positioning themselves to own the sources of food, because they know that will global warming, patterns will change. For example, Russia will become a major provider of grain. Africa is being bought up. China own a quarter of pork production in the US.

Interesting stuff, and lifts the lid on a lot of misinformation. Worth watching. It starts with people in Arizona having their wells run dry because China has created huge farms and drained the aquifers. It then moves on to Africa.....
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(y)(y)
 
dilettante said:
The gaslighting and sheer nuttery continues:

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The anomalies in these data models are easy to explain and understand why they differ. There is no gaslighting or nuttery involved. Like thousands of models measuring different aspects of weather. Each model has differing data sets and therefore differing outcomes. But, the preponderance of the evidence shows a definite increase in warming each year. Here is a graph that measures surface ocean temperature at a specific place, and there is very little discrepancy in where and how these measurements are acquired. The proof is not refutable.

PR_Fig2_era5_daily_sst_60S-60N_1.png
 
Paco Dennis said:
I agree...and we inherited it all. What did we do with all the wealth and resource?, yes, that was us. We couldn't see past our precious desires enough to STOP consuming. We are the "No satisfaction" generation. The most selfish generation ever. Me, me, me, not a thought for the environment. We destroyed our nest all in one generation.
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You're forgetting the old slogan "Better living through chemistry".

People in the 40s and 50s were convinced by scientists, experts, and 9 out of 10 dentists that "modern chemistry" held all the answers, was safe and convenient, and promised a clean, healthy, well-oiled future.
 
Paco Dennis said:
The anomalies in these data models are easy to explain and understand why they differ. There is no gaslighting or nuttery involved. Like thousands of models measuring different aspects of weather. Each model has differing data sets and therefore differing outcomes. But, the preponderance of the evidence shows a definite increase in warming each year. Here is a graph that measures surface ocean temperature at a specific place, and there is very little discrepancy in where and how these measurements are acquired. The proof is not refutable.

PR_Fig2_era5_daily_sst_60S-60N_1.png
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Agreed. Also, I thought she did a great job of explaining it.
 
So what are you doing about it of any real significance? Buying less crap? Downsizing homes and vehicles? Disconnecting air conditioning? Replacing lawn tractors by push mowers?

I thought not.
 
dilettante said:
So what are you doing about it of any real significance? Buying less crap? Downsizing homes and vehicles? Disconnecting air conditioning? Replacing lawn tractors by push mowers?

I thought not.
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Downsized a vehicle from a 14mpg hog to a 36 mpg hybrid, have reduced water use considerably, have a wider temperature zone in vehicles and home before heat or AC kick in, and most importantly, VOTING for leaders who acknowledge the crisis and are attempting to pass legislation to blunt its effect, rather than turning a willfully blind eye to the truth that's staring us all in the face.
Paco Dennis said:
Telling myself the truth about it. Awareness of the truth informs me of what my actions are. They are consistent.
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Exactly.
 
dilettante said:
So what are you doing about it of any real significance? Buying less crap? Downsizing homes and vehicles? Disconnecting air conditioning? Replacing lawn tractors by push mowers?

I thought not.
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It's practically impossible to do anything about it of any real significance when policy makers are getting tons of $$ to not listen and take no action, and various industries use the media to confuse the issues for regular people.
 
There is no doubt that climate change occurs. One question is if it is 'man-made', as some (by far not all) of the scientists claim. And the second question is if carbon dioxide plays a decisive role in it. I doubt both of the claims.
 
George1959 said:
There is no doubt that climate change occurs. One question is if it is 'man-made', as some (by far not all) of the scientists claim. And the second question is if carbon dioxide plays a decisive role in it. I doubt both of the claims.
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Ice core data shows a strong correlation between CO2 levels and global temperatures over the past 800,000 years.
Current CO2 levels (over 410 ppm) are higher than at any point in at least the past 800,000 years.
The rate of CO2 increase is unprecedented in geological history outside of catastrophic events.

The troposphere (lower atmosphere) is warming while the stratosphere is cooling, consistent with greenhouse gas-induced warming rather than solar forcing.
Nights are warming faster than days, and winters faster than summers, again consistent with greenhouse gas forcing.

Satellites measure more energy entering Earth than leaving it, indicating a buildup of heat consistent with greenhouse gas theory.

Solar activity has been relatively stable or slightly declining in recent decades, while temperatures have risen.
Volcanic activity and other natural factors cannot explain the observed warming trend.

Models that include only natural factors fail to reproduce observed warming.
Models that include human greenhouse gas emissions accurately reproduce observed temperature trends.

Past periods of high CO2 levels in Earth's history were associated with warmer climates and higher sea levels.

These lines of evidence, among others, form the basis for the scientific consensus that human activities, primarily through CO2 emissions from fossil fuel burning, are the dominant cause of observed climate change since the mid-20th century.

Would you like me to elaborate on any of these points or provide additional information?
 
George1959 said:
There is no doubt that climate change occurs. One question is if it is 'man-made', as some (by far not all) of the scientists claim. And the second question is if carbon dioxide plays a decisive role in it. I doubt both of the claims.
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Nearly all climate scientists agree that human activity is and has been a driving factor in global warming. Can outlier opinions be found? Of course, but they're very few and quite far between.

Plenty of folks believe the earth is flat. Doesn't make it so.
 
StarSong said:
Downsized a vehicle from a 14mpg hog to a 36 mpg hybrid, have reduced water use considerably, have a wider temperature zone in vehicles and home before heat or AC kick in, and most importantly, VOTING for leaders who acknowledge the crisis and are attempting to pass legislation to blunt its effect, rather than turning a willfully blind eye to the truth that's staring us all in the face.

Exactly.
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I have done many of the same things as you plus a few others. It does worry me what we are leaving to the next generation.
 
A 36 MPG hybrid is a gas hog. I get 40 MPG on gas alone. I've owned a hybrid that easily got 48 MPG from 2002 to 2018. I'm considering a new hybrid in the 50 MPG range next since practical vehicles are being made again. The differences are significant and meaningful.

"Voting" is a bit of a joke, and brought us things like bizarre and impractical net-negative EV mandates they've all had to back off from.

Fully disabling air conditioning is one of the few things that can make a dent.

Flat Earthing is a real threat. Stop doing it.
 
dilettante said:
A 36 MPG hybrid is a gas hog. I get 40 MPG on gas alone. I've owned a hybrid that easily got 48 MPG from 2002 to 2018. I'm considering a new hybrid in the 50 MPG range next since practical vehicles are being made again. The differences are significant and meaningful.

"Voting" is a bit of a joke, and brought us things like bizarre and impractical net-negative EV mandates they've all had to back off from.

Fully disabling air conditioning is one of the few things that can make a dent.
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So by your reckoning everyone should do nothing because none of us can personally solve the entire problem by ourselves?

When posting some of my efforts to reduce my environmental footprint, I neglected mentioning being a near vegan for over 10 years. By your standards that's surely too little too late though.

Perfection is the enemy of progress.
dilettante said:
Flat Earthing is a real threat. Stop doing it.
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I don't understand what you're trying to communicate here.
 

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