Why do we believe in God

Always wondered about where do we go and where do we come from? Any takers?

As a believer, or non-believer?

I think in terms of biology, and chemical reaction. We come from a meeting of a man and a woman as a consequence of our biology. We eventually go back into the ether. Our bodies lose energy, and we dissipate.

Think of evolution - think of an egg and a sperm. They come together and a cell is created. This cell evolves and grows into a human being. It's amazing.
 

Could you explain what this law is as I have not heard about it before. TY.

The law of excluded middle states that for any proposition, either that proposition is true or its negation is true. For example, consider the propositions ''it is raining here now'' and ''it is not raining here now. '' According to the law of excluded middle, one of these two statements must be true.

(from Mr. Google).
 

And I accept it where and to the degree it fits. Looks like you have a strong faith that only gods and afterlife are fit subjects of faith. ;)

Not sure why you'd think that. The context of discussion here is a religious faith, and most religions have a deity or God. So yeah, in this context I refer to it that way.

There are many things I have faith in. I have faith I'll have internet tomorrow. I just think broadening the definition, in this context, isn't very useful and just leads to off-topic banter. IMO YMMV.
 
On the excluded middle, I came across the article, "The Excluded Middle Fallacy: Definition and Examples".

Start of the article: The fallacy of the excluded middle, or the concept of it, has been around since Aristotle's times. Today it remains a common rhetorical trick used by debaters to try to push unreasonable options on their opponents or frame the debate in a way most advantageous to their side.

In this post, we'll discuss what the excluded middle fallacy is and how to identify it in arguments and debate. Most importantly, we'll look at what to do when you catch your opponent using it against you and how to reframe the debate to overcome it!
...

The various sections:

What Is the Excluded Middle Fallacy?
How to Spot the Excluded Middle Fallacy
How to Combat the Excluded Middle Fallacy
What is next.

Good article as I learned a few things from it.

What worries me about it is how widely and vehemently it is often espoused. It often accompanies an over emphasis on rationality which I see as injurious to ones humanity. I'll have a look at the article now, thank you.


Edited to say it was informative but I avoid debate for the distortion effect of pushing a single view point. I've found that Christian apologists are keen to engage in debate even on ones doorstep. Another group that gravitates to it are the atheists eager for some revenge against aggressive proselytizers. I don't begrudge them their resentment but the whole notion of carrying out a kind of forced 'conversation' for the sake of persuading a jury revolts me. I prefer a conversation where one is willing to point out the weaknesses of ones own position and then focus together on better alternatives.
 
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As a believer, or non-believer?

I think in terms of biology, and chemical reaction. We come from a meeting of a man and a woman as a consequence of our biology. We eventually go back into the ether. Our bodies lose energy, and we dissipate.

Think of evolution - think of an egg and a sperm. They come together and a cell is created. This cell evolves and grows into a human being. It's amazing.
And a similar process may create an elephant, rattle snake, or
honey bee, Amazing? Perhaps, but science can trace those creatures, us included, back to earlier forms from which the current forms evolved.

Bottom line, I am an agnostic. Definition?
a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic
 
Always wondered about where do we go and where do we come from? Any takers?
I'll be a taker. We are the product of the cycle of life. Everything living on earth gets recycled. Every living thing in the forest has died a million times over, and yet it is still there. We are no different. Life doesn't begin anywhere (At least for billions of years). It is just passed from one organism to another. The molecules you had for dinner last night (Protein, minerals, vitamins, etc) get absorbed by your small intestine, and are now part of you.

When we die, we become the energy for other life forms to absorb, and they, in turn, get assimilated by others. That's where we come from, and that's where we go. We become nature. That isn't only my belief, it is reality. Energy can neither be created or destroyed.

I commune with nature everyday because it is where I came from, and what gives me life, and it's where I'm going. There is a spiritual aspect to it for me as well, but I won't elaborate. It's an intimate personal experience I enjoy, and it's nothing I can demonstrate or prove to others.
Besides, nature is beautiful, and it's comforting to know I will always be part of it.
 
If you believe in one faith, doesn't that imply that you believe "only one proper object of faith"? Or are people going to Catholic (among other denominations) going to church and thinking, "I could be mistaken and another faith might be right"?



Can only speak for myself. I have seen no evidence that convinces me of any God. Therefore, it would be silly to say I believed in him. Faith, as I see it, is what people say when there is no actual evidence. It's a shot in the dark. With evidence, one doesn't need faith, they'd have facts instead.

I could write more, but I don't want to offend the many Christians here beyond what I might have already. Suffice to say, I don't begrudge people who have faith, and in the grand scheme of things I don't think it's terribly important. We'll all end up in the same place - gone. Which isn't something that I like very much - just ending. But it's how I see it goes, and I can't deny it in personal terms.
Yet you would never argue that a message of coded information received at SETI offers absolutely no evidence of a mind. Because you if did, you know that you would rightfully be considered ridiculously strange. That is categorized as the fallacy of inconsistency of policy.
 
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Going back in time, I expect that humans questioned their existence and the world they saw around them. Without the knowledge or tools to find rational explanations, they assumed that a more powerful, but unseen, force ie. God was responsible. Today, we have a lot more knowledge and understanding of how things work and less reliance on a God to explain the unknown.

However, we're human and maybe take comfort in the belief that if we're good boys and girls we'll go to Heaven when we die and the bad guys will get what's coming to them. In the meantime we'll thank God - if you still believe one exists - for the good times and make excuses for the bad ones.
That isn't fair. Who we become depends on what we experience growing up. We may learn good social skills or we may not. We may grow up feeling loved or we may not. Our time in history can have a strong impact on our lives.

I have a kind of memory of running with criminals in a past life and totally believing our wrongs were justified by the wrongs of society at that time. Of course, I see things differently this time because things are different. If our lives were perfect, the chances are good that we would be angels.
 
It is really rather simple. One God.
If you believe in one faith, doesn't that imply that you believe "only one proper object of faith"? Or are people going to Catholic (among other denominations) going to church and thinking, "I could be mistaken and another faith might be right"?



Can only speak for myself. I have seen no evidence that convinces me of any God. Therefore, it would be silly to say I believed in him. Faith, as I see it, is what people say when there is no actual evidence. It's a shot in the dark. With evidence, one doesn't need faith, they'd have facts instead.

I could write more, but I don't want to offend the many Christians here beyond what I might have already. Suffice to say, I don't begrudge people who have faith, and in the grand scheme of things I don't think it's terribly important. We'll all end up in the same place - gone. Which isn't something that I like very much - just ending. But it's how I see it goes, and I can't deny it in personal terms.
except when you face your end, if it's not dramatic. Who or what will you reach for?
 
You believe in God or you don't. Period!
It surprises me that all these definitive opinions come from people who don't care or have come to terms with this. Yet they respond........why?
 
SETI is the search for extraterrestrial intelligence?????????
Yes, that is what letters symbolize. They consider any type of CODED Information detected as indisputable evidence of a mind at work. You know, like in the film Contact.


So it is the inconsistent to deem the criterion valid one moment, and then to glibly discard it as irrelevant when the conclusion does not appeal to us. That is called inconsistency, and renders such a conclusion invalid. What needs to be demonstrated is why the identical evidence should always be deemed indisputable evidence of a mind should SETI find it , and then be deemed not evidence of a mind when found within a living cell.
 
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I'll be a taker. We are the product of the cycle of life. Everything living on earth gets recycled. Every living thing in the forest has died a million times over, and yet it is still there. We are no different. Life doesn't begin anywhere (At least for billions of years). It is just passed from one organism to another. The molecules you had for dinner last night (Protein, minerals, vitamins, etc) get absorbed by your small intestine, and are now part of you.

When we die, we become the energy for other life forms to absorb, and they, in turn, get assimilated by others. That's where we come from, and that's where we go. We become nature. That isn't only my belief, it is reality. Energy can neither be created or destroyed.

I commune with nature everyday because it is where I came from, and what gives me life, and it's where I'm going. There is a spiritual aspect to it for me as well, but I won't elaborate. It's an intimate personal experience I enjoy, and it's nothing I can demonstrate or prove to others.
Besides, nature is beautiful, and it's comforting to know I will always be part of it.

I like this and agree. I too depend on nature to keep me sane. Bodily I feel happy about staying in the food chain when I die.

The only possible point of disagreement is whether our bodies is all there is to us. Our stuff will indeed be recycled but how about who we are, our consciousness? Seemingly you only ever find human consciousness where our brains are alive and operational. But where does consciousness come from? Is it emitted, transmitted or permitted by brains.

I always just figured it must be produced by brains once they become complex enough but there is no evidence for that. The idea that the brain is like a radio transmitter which picks up consciousness a transmitter picks up radio waves. That option has no appeal to me. Wherever consciousness is being transmitted from would still have to come from something. So I prefer permission: brains filter consciousness which, like matter, is an ontological primitive.

Those who believe it all comes down to matter are physicalists. Those who believe it all comes down to consciousness are idealists. But leaving them as equally basic ontologically seems most reasonable to me. So being part of the web of life and food chain handles the question what happens to our bodies when we die, but leaves untouched what happens to who we are subjectively in our consciousness. I don't know the answer but I think it is important to recognize it as an open question that is as yet unanswered.
 
@MarkD,

Sorry. I read the words but don't get what is being said.

As @bobcat said, "Energy can neither be created or destroyed."

It doesn't apply only to matter (body) (E = mc²) but to everything, consciousness included. TY.

Too late to go deeper tonight but I see energy and matter as interchangeable but am less sure how either squares with consciousness. But I don’t think it emerges from physical states as I don’t place the physical as being more basic than consciousness. But it is very complicated and consciousness like QM and God is one of those things which may always hover beyond our ability to understand, but will always elude our ability to express discursively.
 
I like this and agree. I too depend on nature to keep me sane. Bodily I feel happy about staying in the food chain when I die.

The only possible point of disagreement is whether our bodies is all there is to us. Our stuff will indeed be recycled but how about who we are, our consciousness? Seemingly you only ever find human consciousness where our brains are alive and operational. But where does consciousness come from? Is it emitted, transmitted or permitted by brains.

I always just figured it must be produced by brains once they become complex enough but there is no evidence for that. The idea that the brain is like a radio transmitter which picks up consciousness a transmitter picks up radio waves. That option has no appeal to me. Wherever consciousness is being transmitted from would still have to come from something. So I prefer permission: brains filter consciousness which, like matter, is an ontological primitive.

Those who believe it all comes down to matter are physicalists. Those who believe it all comes down to consciousness are idealists. But leaving them as equally basic ontologically seems most reasonable to me. So being part of the web of life and food chain handles the question what happens to our bodies when we die, but leaves untouched what happens to who we are subjectively in our consciousness. I don't know the answer but I think it is important to recognize it as an open question that is as yet unanswered.
Well, I actually didn't wade into the weeds of that unadulterated conjecture, but since you are sending out invitations, I will attend the party.
Here is my take on the consciousness puzzle.
I think that the degree of consciousness of anything depends primarily on the complexity and connectedness of its essential elements. The elements in a rock, for example, have no connectedness (Exchange of information), so it is basically devoid of any consciousness. A tree, on the other hand does have some degree of connectedness and communication from it's roots to it's needles, and therefore has a rudimentary consciousness.

This pattern seems to hold true for birds, dogs, great apes, and humans. The more interactive the involvement of the separate parts, the more we observe an evolved consciousness. I guess I like to think of our brain cells as grapes. Separately they are just grapes, but when they come together in an interactive fashion, they can produce an exquisite wine (Albeit some are better than others). Likewise, independent musical notes on a page are nothing to write home about, but if they come together in a score, they can be quite impressive (Again, some are better than others).

The questions remains though as to whether there is a wine maker, a song writer, or it's just a random occurrence that has a surprising outcome. We may never discover that. Maybe the communication we are having with each other forms a collective consciousness. In any case, it's been a great party.

If you will permit me to set sail into the mind-blowing ocean of philosophical insanity, perhaps we are all just grapes, or notes on a page, but together we become part of a consciousness we can't fathom. Perhaps even our universe is a brain cell that was born at the Big Bang, and is part of an unimaginable multiverse and hive mind. We wouldn't know, any more than your Amygdala knows it is part of your consciousness.

All I have is a working theory that works for me. I'm not going to brand myself as a physicalist, or an idealist, but I sense that there is more to life than just matter and energy. I will always enjoy the quest for existential truth, but doubt those who claim they know it.
 
It is really rather simple. One God.

except when you face your end, if it's not dramatic. Who or what will you reach for?

Reach for? Without knowing the precise time and cause of death, difficult to say. If I'm laying on the floor of my living room, surrounded by medics, probably the touch of a human hand? The hand of my partner? I mean, it's a pretty dramatic and once-in-a-lifetime event. I don't have a plan to reach for anything specific.

Some may reach to a God. As someone who has seen no evidence of a God, "reaching out" for one at the point of death is akin to talking to yourself.

You know, as I've stated, if I had evidence of a God, I'd believe in one. As such, I'd have many questions of a God. For example, why did he never show himself to me in a way he'd of known would have convinced me? I mean, he knows all, right? He could have categorically convinced me, but apparently has chosen not too. I'm open to adequate evidence, I just can't find any.

I come from the UK, so by default Christianity is the main religion I was exposed to. But I'll never get my head around the concept of original sin, for example. That we're born with sin. Let alone the deceit of free will, which is simply an excuse used to write off a multitude of sins. Ultimately, if I were a God, let's just say I'd run things differently, and would have set up the rules to be a lot less damaging to my creation. I'd want to know why things are as they are.

ps: Again, I'm desperate not to offend any believers with this post, please keep that in mind.
 
Well, I actually didn't wade into the weeds of that unadulterated conjecture, but since you are sending out invitations, I will attend the party.
Here is my take on the consciousness puzzle.
I think that the degree of consciousness of anything depends primarily on the complexity and connectedness of its essential elements. The elements in a rock, for example, have no connectedness (Exchange of information), so it is basically devoid of any consciousness. A tree, on the other hand does have some degree of connectedness and communication from it's roots to it's needles, and therefore has a rudimentary consciousness.

This pattern seems to hold true for birds, dogs, great apes, and humans. The more interactive the involvement of the separate parts, the more we observe an evolved consciousness. I guess I like to think of our brain cells as grapes. Separately they are just grapes, but when they come together in an interactive fashion, they can produce an exquisite wine (Albeit some are better than others). Likewise, independent musical notes on a page are nothing to write home about, but if they come together in a score, they can be quite impressive (Again, some are better than others).

The questions remains though as to whether there is a wine maker, a song writer, or it's just a random occurrence that has a surprising outcome. We may never discover that. Maybe the communication we are having with each other forms a collective consciousness. In any case, it's been a great party.

If you will permit me to set sail into the mind-blowing ocean of philosophical insanity, perhaps we are all just grapes, or notes on a page, but together we become part of a consciousness we can't fathom. Perhaps even our universe is a brain cell that was born at the Big Bang, and is part of an unimaginable multiverse and hive mind. We wouldn't know, any more than your Amygdala knows it is part of your consciousness.

All I have is a working theory that works for me. I'm not going to brand myself as a physicalist, or an idealist, but I sense that there is more to life than just matter and energy. I will always enjoy the quest for existential truth, but doubt those who claim they know it.

Well said. If there is a cosmic song writer I’d envision them composing as Mozart did. Not in a routine way or by plodding through formal considerations, but just by opening the flood gates of possibility guided by beauty, feeling and intuition.

together we become part of a consciousness we can't fathom.

Or perhaps a consciousness we can’t fathom has always been there but becomes the many for the possibility of relationship and just to know itself better?

Thanks for being the life of the party!
 
You believe in God or you don't. Period!
It surprises me that all these definitive opinions come from people who don't care or have come to terms with this. Yet they respond........why?

I'll answer for myself, and assume it applies for some others too. At what point should you become convinced? And if you're not convinced, but still open given adequate evidence, then why would there be a "you believe in God or you don't. Period!" That kind of thinking doesn't really make any sense, given we're all on our life journeys and arrive at things at different times. A definitive non-believer, suddenly presented with adequate evidence, would change their mind, no?

In other words, is it ever too late to see the light?

That and religion is a major topic in everyone's life, be they a believer or not.
 
obviously I hit a sore point.
I don't believe in Santa clause. tooth fairy, aliens, ufo's or the Bermuda Triangle.
I believe in the constitution. But that's a no brainer. It is the stable factor in our existence as a great country.
I haven't heard an audible voice and don't expect to.
Science, intellect and great minds are never going to answer you. Stick with what you believe, but don't call on God when you're at the end of your life.
Don't turn to God for any reason when you encounter problems and suffering. Use what you understand and believe.
Stop looking for help from someone you don't believe exist.
Otherwise face the fact that you don't know.
Easy enough to tell me I'm wrong in my faith but you don't know why??????
Ha Ha no offence I did not say anyone was wrong to believe in god, on the contrary, I was merely point out the inconsistency of the Christian faith by suggesting the possibility of obtaining similar results in life other than Jesus.
There are things in the Bible logically cannot occur, yet people believe these things based on faith, why?
 
Or perhaps a consciousness we can’t fathom has always been there but becomes the many for the possibility of relationship and just to know itself better?

Here's a thought - perhaps consciousness isn't that important? I mean, that it just is, so enjoy it while you can, but it has no special standing. After all, a large concern of consciousness is trying to account for consciousness and what it means. Maybe it's nothing.

Like - let's assume a tree is partially sentient, and becomes aware of each and every leaf as it moves in the wind. The tree might be fascinated, but in the grand scheme of things, knowing a leaf move isn't such a big deal.
 
Why do people believe in sin? the Bible states everyone is a sinner and the punishment is hell while believers receive salvation from sin through Jesus and they spend eternity in heaven.
Personally, I do believe sin or heaven and hell. If there is an afterlife where people of like minds exist perhaps that would be classified as the afterlife.
 
Why do people believe in sin? the Bible states everyone is a sinner and the punishment is hell while believers receive salvation from sin through Jesus and they spend eternity in heaven.

That's a whole other issue. I see far too many so called "religious" people doing heinous things. From governments, to members of the Church, to Joe Blow on the street. Ultimately these kind of things fall under the "free will" banner, I suppose. Still, you'd think a true belief couldn't simply be turned on and off.
 


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