Four Dead In Georgia High Schoo Shooting

Guns in the home cause more deaths than save lives, and there are many risks associated with owning a gun:



Risk of death
People who live with guns are at a significantly higher risk of dying by firearm suicide or homicide than those who don't live with guns.



Risk of injury
Firearms are a leading cause of unintentional injury deaths in children and adolescents in the United States.



Risk of assault
Adults who live with handgun owners are seven times more likely to be shot by their spouse or intimate partner.



Defensive gun use
Research shows that defensive gun use is not common and is no more effective at preventing injury or property loss than other means of self-defense.
 

I am really glad they arrested the father. The 14-year-old kid who did the actual shooting was a victim of his father's stupidity, or maybe pure evil. The father is not only responsible for 4 deaths and a number of additional people wounded, he has destroyed his own son's life as well.
 

I agree that we need to have some controls around gun ownership and that gun safety/security within the home should be taken seriously but I think that we need to look beyond guns and try to get an understanding of why some people choose to or are compelled to commit these terrible crimes while the majority are not.

I grew up in a home among many other homes where there was usually a shotgun or .22 rifle in the corner and it never occurred to anyone of any age to use them to commit a violent act, they were just tools.

This modern compulsion for some people to commit mass murder feels like some sort of shift or canary in the coal mine warning of things to come.
 
JustDave said:
The New York Times has an opinion piece today, that questions the illegitimacy of holding parents responsible for their child's use of guns to commit mass murder. From a legal standpoint it makes sense, but from an ethical standpoint, not so much. But what does ethics have to do with the law? I can see both sides of this issue, but it's too murky for me to understand with a high degree of clarity. The following quote is just the first couple of paragraphs, but it summarizes most of the opinion piece:

Opinion | Blaming a Parent, Again, for Failed Gun Laws
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It's premised on the actions or inactions of Parents concerning Parental responsibility/liability laws. To what degree and circumstances should a parent be considered a criminal Feasor.


https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/title-16/chapter-12/article-1/section-16-12-1/
 
Aunt Bea said:
This modern compulsion for some people to commit mass murder feels like some sort of shift or canary in the coal mine warning of things to come.
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I am of the opinion that it's a consequence of being disconnected from reality due to too much television and not enough time with parents.
 
hollydolly said:
......

Either no adult will ever want to teach in a school where they will be putting their lives on the line, and therefore pupils will end up being taught remotely by zoom... or Teachers will go to work dressed in Body armour...
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Yes fear of a shooting is an issue but one of the biggest ones is physical violence including getting hit by a student on purpose or when they try to break up a fight because they are daily problems. Plenty of videos with student fights including one on ones with teachers.

I know of teachers who quit before they hit the 5 year mark because schools now a days don't want to do any special with problem students. They can't even make a student repeat a course or grade even though they are failing. The behavior problems used to be put in special or different classes or sent or put on a vocational path early in their public school career. A half century ago I remember even the tardy or high absentee student would even be put in classes with hardcore juvenile delinquents if they didn't shape up.

In this case the murder suspect should've been in special classes and under much closer supervision just for the class cutting and the past threat alone.
 
oslooskar said:
I am of the opinion that it's a consequence of being disconnected from reality due to too much television and not enough time with parents.
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It’s something to consider but it still doesn’t explain why it only seems to have a serious negative impact on a few young people.

I don’t have any answers.
 
ohioboy said:
It's premised on the actions or inactions of Parents concerning Parental responsibility/liability laws. To what degree and circumstances should a parent be considered a criminal Feasor.
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/title-16/chapter-12/article-1/section-16-12-1/
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Thank you. That clears up any questions I had about that opinion piece. It sounds to me that the author of the piece either didn't have all the information regarding liability of parents or withheld them in the article. I'm thinking the later, but then opinion pieces probably don't have to hold themselves to the same journalistic standards as actual reports.
 
hollydolly said:
...errrm.. why should they have to learn how to use a killing machine when they're under 21 ?
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Why indeed? Average people, not in the military or police force should have no need to know how to use guns.

What is wrong with us that we think going out and killing something with your father is a good right of passage or that deadly weapons are a cool thing to collect.

People who grow up with guns tend to think everyone else does but they don't. My father was a drill sergeant in WWII, but felt no need to have guns in the house after he came home. He didn't take my brothers or me hunting, when they grew up they neverh ad guns in their houses, neither did I or my husband who was career military. Taking your son to his first major league ball game is a perfectly fine father/son right of passage.

Real life is not a Liam Neeson movie. It's not at all likely that someone will take your daughter, it's much more likely that your son will be dumped by his girlfriend and come home and shoot himself before he has time to get over it.
 
Yesterday in Joppatowne High School in Maryland, a 16 year old boy shot and killed a 15 year old boy. The weapon was not recovered and no motive was given.
 
hollydolly said:
...errrm.. why should they have to learn how to use a killing machine when they're under 21 ?
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Lets be serious... as young children you teach them all kinds of safety things... don't run with scissors, look both ways before crossing, no talking to strangers, ECT... Handling something very dangerous, capable of killing, should be a parents top priority... Axe, Car, chainsaw all come to mind.
And BTW, at 17, I started receiving my training with military assault weapons.
 
old medic said:
Lets be serious... as young children you teach them all kinds of safety things... don't run with scissors, look both ways before crossing, no talking to strangers, ECT... Handling something very dangerous, capable of killing, should be a parents top priority... Axe, Car, chainsaw all come to mind.
And BTW, at 17, I started receiving my training with military assault weapons.
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there lies the problem..in a nutshell...

You teach them don't run with scissors because it's dangerous ... ...how about teaching them not to have a gun.... !?... maybe start there.. no other country does this....and is there any other country in the whole world..that has many gun killing of children as the USA does ?

i rest my case..nothing more to be said!
 
I suppose we'll have to make it just as hard to get a gun into a school as it is to get one onto a commercial aircraft. OK Kids. Be sure to arrive at school at least an hour before your first class to allow time to pass through security.
 
hollydolly said:
...errrm.. why should they have to learn how to use a killing machine when they're under 21 ?
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Young men should learn to use firearms by the time they are 18 as a matter of responsibility, safety, and self-reliance. In a world where personal and public safety can be unpredictable, understanding the safe handling and proper use of firearms equips young men with the knowledge and skills to protect themselves and others in times of need. Firearm education instills discipline, teaches respect for the power of weapons, and reinforces the importance of following rules and regulations. Additionally, it fosters a sense of confidence and maturity, enabling them to make informed decisions about safety in their own homes and communities. More significantly, an armed citizenry has historically served as a bulwark against tyranny, preventing the United States from becoming a spawning ground for dictators, unlike Europe, where disarmed populations have often been vulnerable to oppressive regimes. By learning to responsibly use firearms, young men become part of a tradition that protects individual freedoms and preserves democratic principles.
 
oslooskar said:
Young men should learn to use firearms by the time they are 18 as a matter of responsibility, safety, and self-reliance. In a world where personal and public safety can be unpredictable, understanding the safe handling and proper use of firearms equips young men with the knowledge and skills to protect themselves and others in times of need. Firearm education instills discipline, teaches respect for the power of weapons, and reinforces the importance of following rules and regulations. Additionally, it fosters a sense of confidence and maturity, enabling them to make informed decisions about safety in their own homes and communities. More significantly, an armed citizenry has historically served as a bulwark against tyranny, preventing the United States from becoming a spawning ground for dictators, unlike Europe, where disarmed populations have often been vulnerable to oppressive regimes. By learning to responsibly use firearms, young men become part of a tradition that protects individual freedoms and preserves democratic principles.
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are you serious ?... by that token you're saying that everyone else in the world who don't carry guns are all at risk of being killed... because they don't carry a gun to protect themselves.. nonsense.. ...only in the USA.. nowhere else...not even in Russia..
 
hollydolly said:
how about teaching them not to have a gun.... !?..
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Teaching people not to have firearms would put them at risk because it would remove an essential means of self-defense and leave individuals and communities vulnerable to criminals. After all, in an unpredictable world where personal safety and law enforcement response times can vary greatly, responsible firearm ownership allows citizens to protect themselves, their families, and their property. Disarming law-abiding individuals shifts the balance of power towards criminals, who often disregard laws and will still acquire weapons illegally. Additionally, an unarmed populace may be less capable of resisting government overreach or defending against potential threats to civil liberties. By promoting responsible firearm ownership, society preserves the ability of individuals to protect their rights and safety in a manner consistent with personal responsibility and public safety.
 
oslooskar said:
Teaching people not to have firearms would put them at risk because it would remove an essential means of self-defense and leave individuals and communities vulnerable to criminals. After all, in an unpredictable world where personal safety and law enforcement response times can vary greatly, responsible firearm ownership allows citizens to protect themselves, their families, and their property. Disarming law-abiding individuals shifts the balance of power towards criminals, who often disregard laws and will still acquire weapons illegally. Additionally, an unarmed populace may be less capable of resisting government overreach or defending against potential threats to civil liberties. By promoting responsible firearm ownership, society preserves the ability of individuals to protect their rights and safety in a manner consistent with personal responsibility and public safety.
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I can see how you're thinking that because you've never known your world without those... and it would make you feel uneasy not having that available... but you know all of us in countries that don't allow young people to run around with guns.. don't have anywhere near the killings that you have in the USA... everybody in the world knows that a major problem in the USA.. only the USA don't recognise it as a problem, despite the facts !
 
oslooskar said:
Are you serious??? After all, look what happened in Russia; Gun Control laws were established in the Soviet Union in 1929 and from that year up until 1953 about 20 million political dissidents were rounded up and exterminated.
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do you see Russian youths running around killing people...shotting up schools ?.. do you ?
 
hollydolly said:
do you see Russian youths running around killing people...shotting up schools ?.. do you ?
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No, but then I haven't personally seen anyone shooting up schools. However, that having been said, Russia's homicide rate is higher than the USA's. And a lot of those Russian homicides were committed by Russian youths involved with gangs.
 

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