End of the road for Electric Cars ?

dilettante said:
My point was that their energy crisis is so bad that people are going out for wood in the desperate attempt to keep warm.
But of course you knew that.
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I suspected that you knew that I knew, but you asked, so I answered.
 

Debrah N. said:
I'm always amazed at how easily the goal post slides when it comes to issues that have observable facts attached.

I once listened to a university professor discuss the difference between conservatives and progressives. It basically amounted to fear preventing some folks from stepping out and testing new ideas and preferring to stick with what they know. Isn't it a good thing there are the rest of us out here in the world because otherwise, we'd all still be living in caves.
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You listened to a university professor talk about conservatives and progressives? In this day and age? :LOL:

I'm sorry to read that. Oh, by the way -- I like my cave just fine. I even have air conditioning in it.
 
HermitHogan said:
The government is "mandating" that everyone needs to drive an EV. I must not have gotten the memo! :ROFLMAO:
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Yes! I see it all of the time where they say that they are mandating that the only new vehicles that will be available after 2035 will be EVs.
 

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I have looked at alternative sources of energy and solar or wind generation are just not feasible in my area.
Look at reviews of people who have installed solar panels and tell me how many of them claim to get the rated wattage from them.
Even if you get 100% sunlight all day everyday they just do not produce the rated wattage. Then you have cloudy days and maybe snow on them and God only knows what other reasons that they even perform worse.
I would have to have a whole array of panels to charge a 12V battery and they still aren’t cheap enough to make them worth my consideration.
 
I'm pretty sure that for most BEV and PHEV owners it is primarily a statement of fashion and politics with no particular connection to reality. Sure, there are exceptions, but probably not that many.

This is why sales have dried up. There are only so many of these well-off extremists and that market has been saturated.
 
Eupher said:
You listened to a university professor talk about conservatives and progressives? In this day and age? :LOL:

I'm sorry to read that. Oh, by the way -- I like my cave just fine. I even have air conditioning in it.
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Yes I did and his ideas are profound and transformative if, you take the time to think about it.

Ultimately what he is saying is that while conservatives are motivated by a desire to seek stability by not changing, progressive thinkers are motivated by a goal of justice for all and change to better the situation of all. The flip side of that philosophy is that we need both sides as we live on this planet, the one side moves society forward so that other people's situation is improved so that we can all 'feel good about our place in life' and the other side is the brakes that slows things down just a little bit in order to avoid the chaos that might come if the progressive side (with it's individualism and drive for change) might propel society into.

I first heard him speaking on this Ted talk link.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SOQduoLgRw&t=10s. You should take a few minutes and listen and I think you'll be both entertained and will find it thought provoking.
 
dilettante said:
I'm pretty sure that for most BEV and PHEV owners it is primarily a statement of fashion and politics with no particular connection to reality. Sure, there are exceptions, but probably not that many.

This is why sales have dried up. There are only so many of these well-off extremists and that market has been saturated.
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I don't think it's a fashion statement at all. It's a personal decision to begin living 'lighter' on this planet. To create less pollution for the sake of our kids and grandkids and theirs after them, as well as ultimately a desire for lower expenses so that we can live better in our day to day. While EV's are more expensive than an ICE car, the maintenance and fuel costs are significantly lower than an ICE vehicle. So after a few years of driving it, it pays for itself and eventually we come out ahead a little bit.

And my husband and I are not 'well off extremists' by the way. We are retired, have a small amount of money saved that supports us in our retirement (no big or even small company pensions) and only the OAS in addition to our Canadian Pension payments that we saved up all the years that we worked. I'd say we're considered low income at this point. Our biggest blessing is that we managed to pay off our mortgage several years ago and our car is paid off.

I think if your country or mine backed off on trying to stop the new Chinese EV's from landing on our shores, there would be a rush to replacing older ICE vehicles. The new Chinese cars are apparently very well built (comparable to North American) and significantly cheaper than ours are.
 
Ho, ho, ho! I am heading off to Florida next month. After my cruise I have rented a car for 10 days to "check out" Miami, the Everglades and head on down to Key West. I chose a nice all gas, Toyota Corolla. Sure, I could have booked a fancy electric EV but I don't want the experience of sitting over the ocean along one of the 42 bridges that connect South Florida to Key West with a dead battery. There are gas stations all over Florida. Don't want to waste my holiday time searching for an EV charger. Life is just too short!
 
Don't think its the end of the trail for EV's. Prospective enhanced knowledge to Lease with full Insurance and Warranty for 48 months and near 20,000 miles a year are educated guesses of how to arrive at the right formula to move forward. Let the Brains figure out how to keep the batteries going. Getting stuck with screw up cells is sort of dumb. A complete Battery Rebuild structured infra structure has to happen in every large town in the nation. I'm not talking just Cities but Rural.
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I had a career in Material Handling products and Electrical battery powered stuff. Battery Cells is the Worst problem always.
Fast Charging also has its PITA problems caused by the equivalent of a welder a going full steam.
 
Debrah N. said:
In 2023, almost 23% of new car registrations in Europe were EV's, up from less than 1% in 2019. And in Norway, almost 95% of their new car sales are EV's. I think it's in the America's that we're slow to embrace new technology. Stubborness, fear, lack of concern for the environment......
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I do think that the distances traveled by many of us , here in the US and Canada, tend to greatly exceed distances traveled in European countries. Normal travel - vacations, visiting relatives, our employment in some cases, are greater due to the size of the country and the way in which we have developed it. That would take much "un-doing" to make today's EV's practical for most of us (the wealthy excluded)
 
againstthegrain said:
Some see a bright future for a certain brand of EV's. TSLA up 16%, US$40/share today...........one billionaire made his recent investment pay off.
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I think it will take more than that to save a company selling products with so many drawbacks, despite the massive subsidies.

BEVs that don't qualify for the $7500 welfare (tax credit) because it's been oversubscribed already can still get the pocket-pork by exploiting a loophole that allows $7500 to "pass through" to the dealer when you lease.

"You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
 
DaveA said:
I do think that the distances traveled by many of us , here in the US and Canada, tend to greatly exceed distances traveled in European countries. Normal travel - vacations, visiting relatives, our employment in some cases, are greater due to the size of the country and the way in which we have developed it. That would take much "un-doing" to make today's EV's practical for most of us (the wealthy excluded)
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We have an EV, small, lower range, slower charge and we travelled from east of Calgary to Vancouver, BC and it was no problem at all. And for day to day use, even in winter, the 290 km available range is perfectly doable. And in summer, that range (80% charge) goes up to 387 km.
 
Debrah N. said:
The new Chinese cars are apparently very well built (comparable to North American) and significantly cheaper than ours are.
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The CEO of Ford was complaining about the cost of Chinese EVs six months ago. On a car tech podcast he said he‘d been driving one in the US since then and loved it. He had special permission to test it. There’s speculation that he’d like to make a deal with the Chinese.
 
Jules said:
Toyota has announced that they expect their solid state batteries to be used by 2027 or so. 735 miles on a charge. Things are improving.
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But they still look like ugly suckers with frunks. Their available ranges are listed in Kilometers, most likely well shrunk.
1000 km being around or well short of 600 miles in reality? Sit in the reality of 1 or 2 hours at 5 pm rush hour traffic and 100 F on blacktop or 10F in winter, the reality of the I-state closure due to many accidents every day of the week. Range will drop.
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https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45942785/toyota-future-ev-battery-plans/
 
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Not buying it, dry batteries have a long way to go. So far the energy density is so low they weigh 30% more and are up to 40% larger than the "wet" cells used today. BEVs are already dangerously heavy, pedestrians beware!

And you still have the charging headaches. The same infrastructure is required as well as the remote power generation, transmission losses to reach the vehicle, and conversion losses stepping power up and down and changing AC to DC and self-discharge power loss as well as parasitic heating/cooling and then losses turning stored power into kinetic energy. Such a sad tale of loss, loss, loss - that all turns into waste heat.

Toyota has a lot of irons in the fire, which makes sense since it's part of the job. They also seem to be actively pursuing some sort of "synfuel" engines with very low emissions.
 
Even scientists have argued over today's well established theories. They become widely accepted only with more affirming research. This electric car debate is much like the many years spent arguing over the age of the universe, which is still open to adjusting. No one knows where it's going to end up. We won't know until it does.
 

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