New Wildfires in California

againstthegrain said:
When the Santa Ana's blow the crazies come out of the woodwork to commit arson, the stronger the wind the bigger the attraction. It's been like that for decades.
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The winds ARE awful. Drives people crazy. Literally. Just ask people on the Colorado plains...when the wind blows for two weeks without ceasing....
 

johndoe said:
I can see land speculators offering pennies on the dollar for ravaged properties when home owners are most vulnerable. Modern day carpetbaggers.
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Mini-mansions built along the California coast occasionally fall into the sea due to a high tide, erosion, and a stiff wind.

Thanks to federally subsidized insurance, the wealthy people who own them are able to rebuild, essentially for free, and, if they want to, sell for a profit. Buyers are often not originally from Calif, proof that Calif isn't the only place with a corner on the nuts market.
 
Murrmurr said:
The system for supplying water to SoCal was solved about a 100 years ago. The result: huge farms sprang up, and SoCal became a major supplier of food. Within half a century, major corporations moved in, ports expanded, and Silicon Valley was born, and SoCal became a major contributor to state revenue and supplier of goods.

Thanks to all that tax revenue, Calif could build dams on rivers created by NoCal's rain and snow to provide cheap, clean energy to the entire state, create lakes for recreation, which brought more revenue, fill reservoirs, create new aqueducts, and store water reserves in massive water towers.

Very recently, some of those dams were blown up and millions of gallons of water per year intended for the reserves was re-directed to the sea. This was done to save a fish that was purported to be endangered. So, Los Angeles is burning, and the water reserves are all used up, but the fish are ok. No need to worry about the fish, they'll be fine.
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The delta smelt are still endangered, not "purported" to be. They are also an important part of the aquatic food chain and a major part of the diet of larger fish that are caught and sold as part of the state's multi-billion dollar fishing industry. The fish is also one the leading indicators of the state's water quality. To just brush it aside as some silly whim on the part of environmental kooks with nothing better to do is irresponsible.
 
StarSong said:
Total LAFD budget for 2024 was 819.64 million. Not saying $18 million is insignificant, but cutting that amount wouldn't have changed the disaster of a massive wildfire at a high elevation, quickly spreading due to winds gusting in the 80-100 mph range, and no air support was possible.

More water wasn't the primary issue.
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Losing $18 Mil resulted mainly in layoffs and a moratorium on hiring. That is significant.

I agree, there were issues besides the lack of water.
 
MrJim said:
The delta smelt are still endangered, not "purported" to be. They are also an important part of the aquatic food chain and a major part of the diet of larger fish that are caught and sold as part of the state's multi-billion dollar fishing industry. The fish is also one the leading indicators of the state's water quality. To just brush it aside as some silly whim on the part of environmental kooks with nothing better to do is irresponsible.
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It's purported that the smelt-counting method was significantly flawed. In any case, blowing up dams was not the answer to the problem. It was the cheaper option.
 
StarSong said:
On what do you base these bizarre speculations?

Virtually all homeowners in Los Angeles are insured, and most Pacific Palisades homeowners are insured AND wealthy. It's doubtful significant numbers (if any) will pitching tents on football fields, or dicing it out with existing homeless people for a place to sleep.

Furthermore, many (most?) homeowner insurance policies provide lodging funds after a disaster and while a home is being rebuilt.

Good grief.
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Some trailer parks were completely destroyed, and a lot of people there probably didn't have adequate insurance, if any. Those are the people who are going to be homeless. I think some apartment buildings were destroyed, also. Renters are often screwed in these situations.
 
Each fire season California has a few news articles like the below motivating people to fireproof new homes and retrofit older homes that tends to fall on deaf ears while building and construction materials corporations under pressure from their $$$ bean counter masters work to pressure those responsible for enacting building codes to ignore or water down expert advice. And individual home owners in high risk areas are more likely to gamble firestorms won't happen to them than performing even less expensive retrofits. That is why we will soon be reading stories about those homes and buildings that didn't burn right next to many that are now ash and tears.

Build to Survive: Homes in California’s burn zones must adopt fire-safe code

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article229425004.html

...Unfortunately, short-term thinking can triumph over common sense. Cities facing severe fire risks can avoid compliance with the fire-resistant building codes, or choose to avoid their obvious advantages, despite the fact that “a new home built to wild-fire-resistant codes can be constructed for roughly the same cost as a typical home,” according to a report by Headwaters Economics. Take Santa Rosa’s Coffey Park neighborhood, where the Tubbs Fire killed five people and destroyed 1,321 homes in 2017. The neighborhood wasn’t considered a fire hazard zone, unlike some other areas of Santa Rosa. The Tubbs Fire proved otherwise, but Coffey Park still isn’t designated as a “very high fire hazard zone” by Cal Fire.

“City officials are OK with that,” according to The Bee. “Although developers rebuilding Coffey Park are being urged to consider fire-resistant materials, city spokeswoman Adriane Mertens said the city doesn’t see any reason to impose the 7A code in the neighborhood.” Mertens suggested high winds on the night of the fire meant officials have no reason to require fire-safe construction as Coffey Park is rebuilt. One fire scientist called Santa Rosa’s stance “an error in judgment.”

Folsom also appears to have its head in the sand with regards to fire risk. It’s allowing the Folsom Ranch development to be built without adherence to the fire-safe code. The parcel of land south of Highway 50 was formerly managed by Cal Fire and designated as a moderate fire risk zone, which would trigger the fire-safe building requirements. Once Folsom annexed the land for the new development, the city decided to opt out of the 7A code because the area was never considered a “very high” fire hazard zone...

This article below from October 2023 describes exactly what just happened in adjacent Pacific Palisades and fell on deaf ears due to expense and human nature avoidance.

A Fast-Moving Wildfire In Topanga Canyon Is A Nightmare Scenario. How To Get Ready

https://laist.com/news/climate-environment/topanga-canyon-wildfire-risk

...Smith estimates that it'd take one of these worst case scenario fires about four hours to sweep westward, from the San Fernando Valley to the Pacific Ocean, destroying communities along the way. Just as we saw during the Woolsey Fire in 2018, which made its way 17 miles across L.A. to Malibu in less than 24 hours, destroying 1,600 structures and killing killing three...
 
David777 said:
Each fire season California has a few news articles like the below motivating people to fireproof new homes and retrofit older homes that tends to fall on deaf ears while building and construction materials corporations under pressure from their $$$ bean counter masters work to pressure those responsible for enacting building codes to ignore or water down expert advice. And individual home owners in high risk areas are more likely to gamble firestorms won't happen to them than performing even less expensive retrofits. That is why we will soon be reading stories about those homes and buildings that didn't burn right next to many that are now ash and tears.

Build to Survive: Homes in California’s burn zones must adopt fire-safe code

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article229425004.html

...Unfortunately, short-term thinking can triumph over common sense. Cities facing severe fire risks can avoid compliance with the fire-resistant building codes, or choose to avoid their obvious advantages, despite the fact that “a new home built to wild-fire-resistant codes can be constructed for roughly the same cost as a typical home,” according to a report by Headwaters Economics. Take Santa Rosa’s Coffey Park neighborhood, where the Tubbs Fire killed five people and destroyed 1,321 homes in 2017. The neighborhood wasn’t considered a fire hazard zone, unlike some other areas of Santa Rosa. The Tubbs Fire proved otherwise, but Coffey Park still isn’t designated as a “very high fire hazard zone” by Cal Fire.

“City officials are OK with that,” according to The Bee. “Although developers rebuilding Coffey Park are being urged to consider fire-resistant materials, city spokeswoman Adriane Mertens said the city doesn’t see any reason to impose the 7A code in the neighborhood.” Mertens suggested high winds on the night of the fire meant officials have no reason to require fire-safe construction as Coffey Park is rebuilt. One fire scientist called Santa Rosa’s stance “an error in judgment.”

Folsom also appears to have its head in the sand with regards to fire risk. It’s allowing the Folsom Ranch development to be built without adherence to the fire-safe code. The parcel of land south of Highway 50 was formerly managed by Cal Fire and designated as a moderate fire risk zone, which would trigger the fire-safe building requirements. Once Folsom annexed the land for the new development, the city decided to opt out of the 7A code because the area was never considered a “very high” fire hazard zone...

This article below from October 2023 describes exactly what just happened in adjacent Pacific Palisades and fell on deaf ears due to expense and human nature avoidance.

A Fast-Moving Wildfire In Topanga Canyon Is A Nightmare Scenario. How To Get Ready

https://laist.com/news/climate-environment/topanga-canyon-wildfire-risk

...Smith estimates that it'd take one of these worst case scenario fires about four hours to sweep westward, from the San Fernando Valley to the Pacific Ocean, destroying communities along the way. Just as we saw during the Woolsey Fire in 2018, which made its way 17 miles across L.A. to Malibu in less than 24 hours, destroying 1,600 structures and killing killing three...
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Among the deaf ears, Dave, are the state and city officials who refuse to listen when experts, data collectors, and scientists within the Calif Wildlife, Forestry, and Fish & Game agencies explain how fires, the intensity of fires, and even the prevention of fires can be better managed....better for the environment, for wildlife, and for people.

Like a lot of Californians, I know why they didn't listen. Needless to say I'm not going to go into it, and it doesn't matter at this point, anyway. It's vile that this fire had to be the wake-up call, but I'm sure we'll see things being done a lot differently from now on.
 
Twostep said:
Mayor apparently rejected fires crew from New York.
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Yet the governor is accepting help from Mexico

Newsom confirms Mexico sending firefighters to help California

Some are saying NYC firefighters would be good for building fires only not wildfires. But still that would free wild fire trained personnel for the wildfires then.

Also reports that several states are sending firefighters but their trucks must pass a California fire truck inspection before proceeding to the fire areas???
 
David777 said:
Unlike mountain forests, that is not really an option in coastal chaparral areas. Unlike areas with trees, there isn't any dead plant debris to clear but rather the chamise-chaparral species root sprout after fires as live above ground shrubs. Such shrubs like chamise aka greasewood, contain very flammable oils that function to intensely burn all other adjacent types of plants every few decades during natural fires and they also contain natural herbicides that prevent most other species from being able to grow in those thin acidic soil zones. There are some species of grass that can be grown in those soils but on such usual steep terrain, those grasses won't reduce severe soil erosion like chaparral roots

To remove the often pure stands of chamise so it doesn't grow back requires herbicides and difficult control methods over years to kill the underground roots. Also such chaparral contains a whole biosystem of value of small mammals, birds, and invertebrates. So although small zones with chaparral can be replaced, it isn't practical over large areas. So the only real wise choice is to NEVER build structures with combustible materials in such zones regardless of what some myopic real estate bean counters and their bankers want to build. And if urban areas are at the base of such chaparral zone canyons, they also need to be wind firestorm aerial ember proof.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/psw/publications/documents/misc/ah328.pdf
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They need more goats. Sounds like a joke but I remember reading that goats 🐐 love to eat that stuff.
 
StarSong said:
On what do you base these bizarre speculations?

Virtually all homeowners in Los Angeles are insured, and most Pacific Palisades homeowners are insured AND wealthy. It's doubtful significant numbers (if any) will pitching tents on football fields, or dicing it out with existing homeless people for a place to sleep.

Furthermore, many (most?) homeowner insurance policies provide lodging funds after a disaster and while a home is being rebuilt.

Good grief.
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Pardon me if I am speaking out of turn. I say that because what I am saying is second hand.

I friend of mine survived the Santa-Rosa fire [2017] ? And he said that several in that area had no [natural] fire insurance . They had coverage if it were an 'in-house' situation, cigarette , candle, grease etc. But wildfire was an additional insurance rider ? So insurance may not be all that common ?
 

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