Questions about near death experiences

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Rose65

Well-known Member
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I just read something interesting about out of body experiences reported by people in cases where they were clinically dead and still heard and saw things. Things physically impossible, such as conversations in other rooms, describing peoples clothes or objects in other places in a building.

How could the part of them, let's suppose it's the soul, have seen without eyes, heard without ears and interpreted the information without use of their brain?

These are surely valid reasonable questions from the science point of view.
 

Rose65 said:
I just read something interesting about out of body experiences reported by people in cases where they were clinically dead and still heard and saw things. Things physically impossible, such as conversations in other rooms, describing peoples clothes or objects in other places in a building.

How could the part of them, let's suppose it's the soul, have seen without eyes, heard without ears and interpreted the information without use of their brain?

These are surely valid reasonable questions from the science point of view.
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It's said the soul is consciousness, and doesn't require eyes and ears.
 

I always admired the way Carl Sagan resisted the "life after death" industry by staying true to his scientific principles when he was dying of cancer.

Personally, I don't believe in spirits but rather believe that when we die, our atoms find other places to be and we cease existence in any form.

Now that there is a good chance I will be facing my own end in the not to distant future, I hope that I will have the courage to behave as Carl did.
 
My opinion.....our consciousness is eternal and functionally existed before we were born and will continue on its journey after our bodies die.
Our brains aren't the source of our consciousness and we don't require our bodies' sensory organs to perceive the universe we occupy.
 
Rose65 said:
How could the part of them, let's suppose it's the soul, have seen without eyes, heard without ears and interpreted the information without use of their brain?
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For that matter, how well do we even understand how our eyes, ears and other sensory give us the world we experience in consciousness. Identifying key organs and faculties is all well and good but thinking that explains everything is hasty.
 
MarkD said:
Big fan of science for figuring out how to do things. But for understanding that which we do without knowing how .. there is only so much it can do. Not the fault of science. Where it applies, it is the best.
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Me, too. There's great difficulty getting funding for unbiased research into such things, tho if you.design it in hopes of debunking funding comes easier. Recent years have brought big changes to some enshrined paradigms, like that we only dream in REM sleep or that lucid dreaming was nonsense.

The research described in the book i'm reading now 'The Field' goes back several decades and the theories offered about their results cost some scientists prestigious careers. But they were rigorously designed to eliminate chance as a factor and it's been very interesting reading.
 
Repondering said:
My opinion.....our consciousness is eternal and functionally existed before we were born and will continue on its journey after our bodies die.
Our brains aren't the source of our consciousness and we don't require our bodies' sensory organs to perceive the universe we occupy.
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I agree. Lately quantum physics (multi universes), neurology (neuro plasticity), and Buddhism are converging on the possibility of cosmic consciousness.
 
Rose65 said:
Yet science cannot be dismissed, as it works on evidence.
Without eyes we cannot see, no ears, we cannot hear.
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I can explain some of it... Witnessed it 1st hand.... I have been involved with several "saves" over the years, had one that talked about hearing and seeing things while clinically dead. It was one of the weirdest experience's of my career.
Lady came in complaining of chest pain, and within a few minutes went into cardiac arrest, Flat line on the monitor, we started CPR and she starts mumbling, we stop, still flat line and no pulse. Start CPR and check for loose leads, bad connection ECT, again starts mumbling. Stopped and again flat line and no pulse. We got some meds in her and continued with CPR for about 10 minutes... She would mumble, open her eyes, tears rolling out, but still flat line with no pulse without CPR. Finally got a rhythm we could defibrillate, and each time she would yell ouch and right back to no pulse.
Finally, after 30 minutes of being "dead" we got a pulse back. Took her to the Cath Lab and she had 2 major clots, 3 days later she went home.
Although she was clinically dead, the CPR provided enough oxygen to the brain for it to somewhat function.
 
Llynn said:
Now that there is a good chance I will be facing my own end in the not to distant future, I hope that I will have the courage to behave as Carl did.
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That's beautiful, Llynn. Beautiful. My fear is I'll die screaming and cursing.....I hope not, but I feel it's likely.

eta
when I think about death I think of my son, how he will miss me, remember me, tell dumb stories about me, laugh about me I will live in his memory and I feel I have done something worthy for this world..............and I fell better and full of love.
 
I was in a coma once and didn't feel anything or go anywhere although I died for a few seconds. However years later I was held at gunpoint on my knees with a gun pointed to back of my head......that was very surreal. Time slowed down and a peace came over me. That's as close as I got.
 
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feywon said:
Thank you for mentioning that. Despite having read a good bit of Aldous Huxley i don't recall coming across that title. Altho if you have a recommendation of another author's take on it--i'd be interested.
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I don't know if you've listened to or read any Rupert Sheldrake, PhD, a British biologist. Among many many subjects he discusses is consciousness as not residing in the brain, but outside like a force such as gravity, or electromagnetism. He has an extensive load of videos on YouTube: Rupert Sheldrake

You might enjoy his discussion on God, nature, and consciousness; or his lecture on transcendence.
 
feywon said:
Thank you for mentioning that. Despite having read a good bit of Aldous Huxley i don't recall coming across that title. Altho if you have a recommendation of another author's take on it--i'd be interested.
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Afraid not. But I agree that Sheldrake might be of interest. I watched this video a while back as my first intro to his thinking because I’ve already been interested as you know in Iain McGilchrist. The guy who introduces these two goes on for more than 5 minutes before giving it over to Iain who says some interesting thing around the 9 minute mark and then Rupert comes on. Initially I thought he was a little wooey but I’m curious about what he has to say now.

 
ChiroDoc said:
I don't know if you've listened to or read any Rupert Sheldrake, PhD, a British biologist. Among many many subjects he discusses is consciousness as not residing in the brain, but outside like a force such as gravity, or electromagnetism. He has an extensive load of videos on YouTube: Rupert Sheldrake

You might enjoy his discussion on God, nature, and consciousness; or his lecture on transcendence.
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Yes i have heard of him and plan on watching the video MarkD posted in next day or so. He's one of a couple of People who seem to be viewing similarly to how i do but we don't use the same vocabulary describing it tho it generally amounts to same thing. Thank you for reminding me.
 
MarkD said:
... But I agree that Sheldrake might be of interest. I watched this video a while back as my first intro to his thinking because I’ve already been interested as you know in Iain McGilchrist. The guy who introduces these two goes on for more than 5 minutes before giving it over to Iain who says some interesting thing around the 9 minute mark and then Rupert comes on. Initially I thought he was a little wooey but I’m curious about what he has to say now.
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To me, Sheldrake is fascinating. He has the mind and research to back up his views. He comes out with a new video (usually an interview) every month or so, and we never miss one, but as you noted his YT channel has a boatload of stuff.

One of his chief theories is "morphic resonance", which he talks about at length and in detail. Mainstream science rather refers to the area as panpsychism, and the location of consciousness as "the hard problem"...:)
 
ChiroDoc said:
To me, Sheldrake is fascinating. He has the mind and research to back up his views. He comes out with a new video (usually an interview) every month or so, and we never miss one, but as you noted his YT channel has a boatload of stuff.

One of his chief theories is "morphic resonance", which he talks about at length and in detail. Mainstream science rather refers to the area as panpsychism, and the location of consciousness as "the hard problem"...:)
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I just listened to that video again and I followed it with this one with questions and answers from participants from both of them. I think there may be somethings in that of interest too.

The first time I listened some time ago I thought Rupert sounded a little out there for me but then before talking with Feywon about it I pretty much felt the same way about NDE's. Now I'm more open to learning more and interested but I have to say McGilchrist has been the one who has brought me around to recognizing a regard for the sacred where before I was pretty resigned to materialist mind set. Reading his books has also made apparent the need to unlearn some of the things I'd dismissed out of hand for the flimsiest of reasons. I think I still have more un-learning to do. Sheldrake does have some interesting things to say though mostly in directions which challenge my comfort zone.

Not sure when or if he might be interested in or have time for these conversations since he is packing for a holiday, but my good friend @Stoppelmann is much more read in these areas than I am. In fact I am just writing him a last email before he departs and will mention this thread to him.

PS, @ChiroDoc is your username a hint to your occupation (perhaps prior to retirement)? Nice to cyber meet you too, BTW.
 

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