The Menendez brothers, and me.

Ronni

Well-known Member
Location
Nashville TN
In light of the recent thread about the Menendez brothers and their parole, I want to draw your attention to a comparison between them and me, in an effort to educate and enlighten, and particularly because of the brutal way some of the folks here have spoken about the brothers, and hopefully educate you about the dynamics of abuse.

I am making no excuses for the brothers.

However, if you’ve never studied abuse in depth, or been the victim of systematic, chronic, calculated, longtime abuse then you have no concept of its deep and crippling effects.

I am an abuse survivor. For 30 years before I finally found the courage to leave my ex I was emotionally, mentally, sexually and financially abused by him. Towards the end of my time with him he also turned to physical abuse. I wanted to die. I was passively suicidal. I hoped he would die.

I believed I was stupid, unintelligent, semi-literate, uncreative, a bad mother, terrible wife. I was cowed, subservient, had no self esteem, believed I was inconsequential. Had I not accidentally stumbled upon a group of abuse survivors (I was looking for ways to be a better wife) who had gone or were going through similar, who understood and believed me, I am quite certain I would be dead by now, or in prison myself.

That validation, the fact that I was believed, that confirmation that it wasn’t my fault, that I had worth and value, made a pivotal, life changing difference.

My ex was charming, charismatic, a brilliant award winning art director/designer (he won an Addy for one of his designs.) He was a gifted songwriter and lyricist, worked for MCA when we met, highly intelligent, artistic. He was also controlling, manipulative, arrogant, domineering, self absorbed, had an inflated sense of self-importance, lacked empathy, had major entitlement issues..all traits fully covered in the DSM-5. (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th edition)

I was naive, hadn’t dated much, and was taken in by his charm and charisma and declarations of love. The few negative traits I did see (jealousy, possessiveness, grandiosity) I misinterpreted as love. Over time other traits that he’d hidden at the beginning began to emerge…a common strategy of abusers. After all, who in their right mind would attach themselves to a psychopath?

After I left him I too went on a spending spree. I bought all the things I and the kids weren’t allowed to have when we lived with him. Small things like soft toilet paper, scented hand soap, paper towels, slippers. The kids were finally allowed to go out, have people over, decorate their rooms any way they wanted. We could watch whatever TV shows and movies we wanted, dress however we wanted to.

I cut my hair. Over time I replaced my small wardrobe of black, gray and brown clothing with colorful items. My daughter I I started dancing…it was forbidden by him. So many things that had been forbidden or not allowed were now within our grasp and it was a dizzying, giddy feeling of release and liberation and we all went a bit wild for a time.

It took many years of therapy, education on the dynamics of abuse, self help, support groups, to overcome the worst of the psychological damage his abuse inflicted, though I still have triggers I’m not sure will ever go away.

I’m not relating any of this for sympathy, but rather to educate, to draw a comparison, to show a more in depth aspect of abuse than the black/white, Boolean logic approach that has been portrayed in the media concerning the Menendez boys.

The effects of systematic abuse on a person are complex and multifaceted no matter what form that abuse takes. Abuse related trauma has profound and long lasting effects on a person’s mental, emotional and physical well being.

I am a survivor of abuse, no longer a victim. It took a long time for me to be able to say that. As a victim, and finally a survicor, I understand what would compel the brothers to do what they did. I don’t condone it, but I do understand it. I stood at the kitchen window while my ex did yard work, and prayed to a God I no longer believed in that he would just drop dead from a heart attack, so yeah, I get their mindset.

I am completely open to any questions you might have about my personal experience in specific or the subject of abuse in general. My intention is to educate and to that end I welcome any queries you have.
 

Ronni, I know you've mentioned this abuse in the past,🤗 I recognise those signs all too well, in the abuse my mother suffered, and ultimately we chidren...

My mother would have killed my father I'm sure, if it hadn't have meant she would have gone to prison and left her kids motherless..in the event she took the only way out she knew how, and closed the abuse off by medicating herself, and ultimately succumbed to an overdose...

Many times as children as the sperm donor, was beating her to the point of unconsciousness , we children as teens by then would attack him, desperately trying to get him to let go of her throat as she was dropping to the floor...but he was so strong, he felt nothing from our onslought

On one occasion my brother then aged 15 ran for a bread knife and stuck it in his arm when all attempts by us girls ..pulling his hair, jumping on his back, punching his face wasn't working, and mother was turning blue as he choked the life out of her ..... and he finally let go when the knife sunk in his forearm...

The point is that in our terror, we could easily have killed him... and this would be after all our lives of physical abuse, starvation , mental abuse, and worse. and watching our mother suffer day after day , year after year..... attempts at suicide several times, coming home to find her with her head literally in the oven... or arriving home to find an ambulance taking her away as she lay unconscious after another attempt at taking her own life.. ..we were little children seeing all this... .. my first experience of this when I was just 3 years old, all this caused by him.... we could easily have killed him when we were teenagers .. and we would have these same naysayers, these same finger pointers, ... saying we should be kept in prison for life...

We tried getting the police involved.. they weren't interested in domestic abuse by and large back in the day.... and there's more to that story ..as well

People who have not been on the receiving end of abuse can never understand how it effects the mind as well as the body...

The most horrifying result of it all of course was that with the death of our mother, we children had no-one..no-one now to stand between him and us........
 

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@Ronni i am so glad you and your children escaped and healed.

Thank you for posting this, tho like @againstthegrain feel the ones who need to hear it will find a way to rationalize and and dismiss it.

One of the things that distressed me most about that thread was that people who have been here long enough to know several of our members are survivors of abuse, either in childhood or a relationship, yet the most they could muster in the way of understanding was "I don't condone abuse."
 
Ronni, I know you've mentioned this abuse in the past,🤗 I recognise those signs all too well, in the abuse my mother suffered, and ultimately we chidren...

My mother would have killed my father I'm sure, if it hadn't have meant she would have gone to prison and left her kids motherless..in the event she took the only way out she knew how, and closed the abuse off by medicating herself, and ultimately succumbed to an overdose...

Many times as children as the sperm donor, was beating her to the point of unconsciousness , we children as teens by then would attack him, desperately trying to get him to let go of her throat as she was dropping to the floor...but he was so strong, he felt nothing from our onslought

On one occasion my brother then aged 15 ran for a bread knife and stuck in his arm when all attempts by us girls ..pulling his hair, jumping on his back, punching his face wasn't working, and mother was turning blue as he choked the life out of her ..... and he finally let go when the knife sunk in his forearm...

The point is that in our terror, we could easily have killed him... and this would be after all our lives of physical abuse, starvation , mental abuse, and worse. and watching our mother suffer day after day , year after year..... attempts at suicide several times, coming home to find her with her head literally in the oven... or arriving home to find an ambulance taking her away as she lay unconscious after another attempt at taking her own life.. ..we were little children seeing all this... .. my first experience of this when I was just 3 years old, all this caused by him.... we could easily have killed him when we were teenagers .. and we would have these same naysayers, these smae finger pointers, ... saying we should be kept in prison for life...

We tried getting the police involved.. they weren't interested in domestic abuse by and large back in the day.... and there's more to that story ..a swell

People who have no been on the receiving end of abuse can never understand how it effects the mind as well as the body...

The most horrifying result of it all of course was that with the death of our mother, we children had no-one..no-one now to stand between him and us........
We stand together, sweet friend. ❤️

When I said I was passively suicidal, that just meant that I wished I could die but would not actively take my life as that would leave the kids entirely at his mercy.

And yes again, had I killed him it would have left my children alone. One more thing I couldn’t do to them. So I endured.

I don’t know the number of times my kids came to my rescue as he was covering over me as I huddled in a corner, him screaming at me, his spittle hitting my face. Or the number of times I physically put myself between him and the kids as he was doing similar to them.

I get it. I wish I didn’t. We both get it, sadly. We stand in solidarity!
 
@hollydolly
Thank you as well. Two things from this comment of yours i want to respond to.

"We tied getting the police involved.. they weren't interested in domestic abuse by and large back in the day...." i remember hearing Sir Patrick Stewart talk about that (also read more details in his memoir) and thinking, 'so police attitudes not just an American problem."

"People who have no been on the receiving end of abuse can never understand how it efffcts the mind as well as the body..."

The worst i ever personally suffered was some relatively mild emotional abuse by Mom and being parentified by her when my brother came along when i was 16. By then i had been around extended family enough to have some understanding of why Mom was so emotionally needy and as inconsistent as she was. I didn't think about it that way at the time but what my daughter says about reasons for unacceptable behaviors is how i felt: It explains (which at least lessens the self blame of victims/survivors) but it does not excuse it.

One of my sisters will be 84 at the end of this month, i still see the impact of the physical and emotional abuse she suffered in the Children's Home before they came to live with us. It is part of why our relationship is better at a significant distance, tho some signs still show.
While she no doubt talked about it at times with professors while working on her Masters in Psychology if she did any therapy i suspect that like my third husband she did not share the issues she most needed help with. Consequently she has difficulty sorting out responsibility and blame and is so afraid of the latter that she will blame anyone present for own mistakes, even young children. Often for things that are not a big deal, no-nes fault and easily fixable.
 
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This is exactly the point Ronni and all of survivors are trying to guide home to these people who think everything is black and white.. they killed them..they should fry ...mentality....

We were like the M brothers as kids, we couldn't tell anyone of the abuse we were suffering behind closed doors.. there's a long story attached to that ..but suffice it to say that one of the reasons was because of his abuse and my mothers' constant breakdowns we were shunted back and forth into fosters homes and childrens homes..me the most from the age of 14 months off and on , until the age of 11..


..... ...so these places were not where we wanted to be, albeit they were safer than our house.. but we didn't want to be seperated from our mother.. and she told us in no uncertain terms if we told anyone what was happening we would be taken into social care until we were 18 and she would not be permitted to know where we were... so we said nothing..

My brother and i aged just 6 and 7 ran to get the police on one occasion, we gasped out our story, they told us to return home, and say nothing...

We were only home a few minutes when 2 officers came to the door and my mother denied everything.

As littlies we were shocked, we had always been told to tell the truth and now mum was lying, the police knew she was too, she had the marks on her face ... their hands were tied... later mum pulled us aside and young as we were , we were told never to do that again, because if the sperm donor was arrested there would be no money for food for us... so we learned a lesson that day.. several actually... and I never forgot it...

All that said.. I have a huge family.. aunts, uncles, cousins galore, they all could see what was going on by our marks and our sheer fear of him... but no-one stepped in, just as afraid of what he would do to them, I suspect...

Teachers, they meted out their own bruises, so they didn't take any notice of existing bruises... ....so if I'd taken a gun and shot the barsteward right through the eyes.. while he sitting watching tv.. and not in the act of attacking me or my mother ,, according to some, I would need to be locked up for the rest of my life ''Obviosuly it clearly never happened because I didn't complain to anyone''... !
 
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As a victim of s**ual abuse throughout my adolescence at hands of my father, I was completely powerless. Who could I tell? What would that do to my family? Would I be believed? How would it spin out? Was what he was doing even against the law? Nobody talked about these things back then.

I fantasized about suicide or murdering him. Believe me, I completely understand the Menendez brothers' responses. I think they've done their time, have proven themselves to be thoroughly rehabilitated and no danger to others, and should be released.

It is due to victimized people like us telling our stories, that domestic violence and molestation are now on the radar of doctors, teachers, police and other adults in authority positions.
 
@Ronni, As I said on the Menendez thread, I once worked at a battered women's shelter. My job was partly to go to community and religious and other groups to speak on the subject, so I know all about the syndrome, and how people react. Thank you for posting such a thorough and well articulated explanation.

Also love and thanks to @hollydolly and @StarSong and anyone else so brave as to share their painful memories.
 
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I am so sorry for the abuse that has been described here. Lucky lucky fellows I was not there. My abuse was perpetrated and sustained by a family friend…and therefore complicated. But simple compared to others ongoing horrors. When I developed a voice…my brother in law made the abuse stop. It was that simple. I can not imagine the degree of mental and physical abuse described here without imagining the death of the perps. Seems fair and just to me. As for the brothers…any “justice” has long since been served. Let them out…
 
Yes, they were. All due respect, I'm not going to respond to this thread anymore. :) I said what I said and meant it. Everyone else can go on doing their thing.
Respectfully, I don’t understand why you are ruffled. I agreed with you that the laws were upheld. While I’ve said, or at least intimated, that I understand what drove them to the lengths they went to, I also said I don’t condone their behavior. Nonetheless I was there myself for an excruciatingly long time, and had I not stumbled across the support I found, and left when I did, I quite possibly would have ended up where they are.

I’m sorry if I offended you. and Im deeply sorry you were the victim of abuse.
 
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No one can understand how abuse early in life from alcoholic ..abusive / violent parents / partners effects …our lives, unless you’ve walked a mile in our shoes …

Yeh I had so called community workers .….…say to me in my 20’s

I understand “ Nah that’s …..total … B.S . unless someone’s suffered abuse ….they will NEVER understand.

We all carry unseen scars for life as a result of abuse we suffered
 
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For those that posted of their real life experiences. I appreciate you all for posting about the impact it had on you.
My questions to any of you that might share more of your thoughts
1. How did you manage to not take the action of killing your abuser?
2. Did any of you plan to kill, but weighed the consequences?
3. Do you think there is a difference between planning to kill or killing the abuser at the very moment abuse is taking place?

If I was on the parole board I honestly don't know right now what my decision would be.
 
I do not condone abuse in any form. Only once did my mother give me a beating of my life, when she should have been grateful that I did not fall in a river and drown. Instead, she beat the living daylights out of me for having walked down by the river. My father was called home by a neighbor who heard me screaming, and he threatened to have my mother jailed if she ever laid another hand on me. Well, she never did, and I made sure I gave her a wide swath throughout her life.

From that day forward, I learned to really take good care of myself and if anyone had ever raised another hand to me, woe to that person.

Now, I don't know if those brothers lied or not, and it doesn't matter whether I believe them or not. But, they were adults when they did what they did, and I find that reprehensible. As angry as I could get at my mother at times, I'd never even consider murdering her. Nor anyone for that matter.
 
I was the victim of emotional and physical abuse by one of my partners.

I moved in with him when I was 30. He was 22. It started as jealousy. He hated my previous partner of 6 years and tore up all the greeting cards he had given me over the years. Then it became physical abuse. He started to push or hit me. I fought back, but since the apartment was in my name I was afraid I would damage something if we fought too hard.

I went to work one day with a black eye. He would always cry afterward and say how sorry he was... typical abuser behavior. He disappeared for a few days, then miraculously came back, threw his keys on the floor and said I was too good for him and he was leaving. I figured he'd met someone more attractive or who made more many but I rolled with it. He did come back again but I told him we were done. Turns out, when he was growing up he saw his father threaten his mother with a gun so the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

That was my last relationship before I met my hubby of 35 years. I wasn't looking for ANYONE when I met him. I was happy to be by myself. I had improved my self-esteem and was not up for any more nonsense. Hubby is so respectful. He actually worked for a non-profit that operated 3 shelters around Dallas. One of the shelters is dedicated to men because so many gay men are abused. Very few people realize that.

I never felt like killing this guy, but I never lived with him so long that I suffered long-term trauma. I really feel for someone who has been through it and couldn't get out. It is a horrible way to live.

There... I've bared my soul and it was cathartic.
 
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I did run away a few times to escape a bashing over something the younger kids got up to …( because I wasn’t keeping a good eye on them ) but the police never believed anything I / we said …..in fact they would downright accuse us of lying about abuse and take me / us home with a clip under the ear ….to face the “ music”
 
I had a dear friend for almost 70 years. We worked together in the same office. She used to tell me about the abusive/drunken father who always hit her mother and her brother and sister and herself. She hated him so much and one day picked up a knife and walked towards him sleeping in a chair. Her mother stopped her and said he wasn't worth it, as she would end up in jail.
She said when they heard him coming down the street yelling and abusing people they would hide under the house, where they eventually would sleep. A car was abandoned up the road and they ended up taking their possessions and living in the old car. No wonder she hated men that drank and was so lucky she married a lovely man.
 

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